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Bye bye Goldobin

Cbrower91

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i can't believe how badly people are freaking over this trade, I really don't think it's a massive over payment
 

Judge Fudge

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As A canucks fan

1st) Enjoy mmmbop.

2nd) What is Nickolay issue that you hate him so much?
 

Cmon_WTF

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It's not hate for Goldobin more like frustration. He's a kid who works extremely hard off the ice and in practice to improve parts of his game but doesn't bring that same work ethic consistently come game time. He's super skilled offensively but the defensive side of his game is lacking. It has improved but it's still not good.

Overall I think it's a solid trade for both teams.
 

sjrules99

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It's not hate for Goldobin more like frustration. He's a kid who works extremely hard off the ice and in practice to improve parts of his game but doesn't bring that same work ethic consistently come game time. He's super skilled offensively but the defensive side of his game is lacking. It has improved but it's still not good.

Overall I think it's a solid trade for both teams.

Its not a bad deal. Goldy ould areguably be behind meier, sorenson, o-regan, and lebanc in the depth chart. Possibly behind carpenter (if he resigns) and goodrow too. Simply put, he was middle of the pack offensive depth-wise. It is sad that he is gone, and sad that he wont be the fireball that we were hoping for, but organizationally, it's a small loss both now and in the future. Dougie was dealing from a position of strength and frankly, I 100% expected him to be moved.

However, I was hoping he'd be moved in a deal for vrbata. I think the obvious hole up front is a 1st line winger. Vrbata fits that mold. He is on a 60 point pace, and adds a ton offensively. I would have preferred to move goldy to the yotes in a deal for vrbata, but perhaps the asking price was too high. I guess we'll see when vrbata is dealt today.

If hansen is healthy, and slots in well with the joes, then it's a fine deal. 2.5M next year is a reasonable price. its not a wow deal, but it keeps haley or one of the kids out of the lineup in the PO's. Karlsson can slot down on the 4th line and the sharks can put 4 threatening lines together. And when the inevitable injury bug hits, Id rather have hansen in there than meier, sorenson, carpenter, or the like in the POs.

It's not a bad deal in itself, it's only bad if comparing to other potential deals.
 

sjrules99

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One other impressive thing in hansen's favor has to do with when his production comes.

Combining last year and this year: he has 95 gp, 28g, 23a= 51 pts, +18. All but one of those points is at EV or SH. That's better than 1/2 pt per game without PP production. For comparison, the only players on the sharks with those numbers at EV are Burns and pavelski. Jumbo, patty, cooch, et al all have a lower points per game at EV this year.

No one on the entire canucks roster has that pace (bo horvat is close). Going back to last year too, no one on the nucks roster had that pace (daniel Sedin was close). The sharks last year had jumbo, pavs, and burns that were right around that pace (slgihtly better, but not by much).

Simply put, Hansen is a clear top 6 forward at Even Strength the last two years. he might not be helpful on the PP, but looking a little deeper, he is likely wholly underrated.
 

sjrules99

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seems vrbata NOT dealt. obviously the price was too high. Stupid ARI GM. no assets for a bunch of to-be-ufas. Likely dougie kicked the tires on that one, but if NO team was willing to give up what he wanted, then obviously the price was lot higher than hansen's. In light of vrbata not being dealt at all, I feel much better about the Hansen deal.
 

Cmon_WTF

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From what I understand Vrbata has a really messed up contract as far as playoff bonus qualifiers go that would have caused a lot of issues for a lot of teams cap wise next year. I like Hansen much better for the Sharks. He's a much more complete player who adds more to the team than Vrbata would have.

Added bonus Vancouver is retaining 20% of his cap hit for the remainder of the contract.
 

sjrules99

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From what I understand Vrbata has a really messed up contract as far as playoff bonus qualifiers go that would have caused a lot of issues for a lot of teams cap wise next year. I like Hansen much better for the Sharks. He's a much more complete player who adds more to the team than Vrbata would have.

Added bonus Vancouver is retaining 20% of his cap hit for the remainder of the contract.

hmmm, interesting. Still ridiculous that Arizona couldnt find a suitor for their team leader in points, with a *seemingly* tiny cap hit, and clear top line or top 6 level of play. Strange too that doan didnt move too as well as a few others.

I like the Hansen deal more and more as I think about it deeper. His EV play being SO incredibly strong is really attractive and he is a tough guy to play against and has experience playing EV minutes with top players and performing at a high level. a 4th rounder is a rather small price (something under 20% liklihood of an NHLer and who cares about a 1st rounder if they win a cup). Goldy was quickly surpassed by lebanc and meier at the very least and was just not going to be an impact player for a while if at all. Goldy is at the age that his time needs to be now, and it wasnt gunna be in SJ with so many young guys pounding on the door. Losing him hurts the organizational depth a bit, but it's not a big loss.
 

Cmon_WTF

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If we are to believe Wilson's post trade comments Goldobin was passed up, not because of skill, but because of style of play. He didn't fit in with what both Wilson and DeBoer felt the team needed and the direction they wanted it to go. Goldobin has been the best forward for the Cuda this year. Better than all the other forwards who have been called up except LaBanc. Choosing to move Goldobin was not because he was passed on the depth chart but because he didn't have the perceived necessary attributes Wilson and the coaching staff expect of their forwards.
 

Likewall32

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How dumb was Doug on this trade.... It was already a slight over payment but then he does this:
"The fourth round pick sent to the Canucks becomes a first round pick if the Sharks win the Stanley Cup this year."

So potentially a 1st rounder & Goldy for Hansen - that could sting bad
 

Judge Fudge

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But the thing is for us................

Benning finally went "Fuck it...................... FULL REBUILD MODE NOW". Golo will be a nice peice for it

Guys gotta worry about his health though.
 

VASFfan

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How dumb was Doug on this trade.... It was already a slight over payment but then he does this:
"The fourth round pick sent to the Canucks becomes a first round pick if the Sharks win the Stanley Cup this year."

So potentially a 1st rounder & Goldy for Hansen - that could sting bad

If the Sharks win the Cup, it would obviously be a low 1st. And regardless, if the Sharks win the Cup, do you really think Wilson will give a rat's ass about the pick becoming a 1st? He'll hand over the 1st and be glad to do so.
 

sjrules99

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How dumb was Doug on this trade.... It was already a slight over payment but then he does this:
"The fourth round pick sent to the Canucks becomes a first round pick if the Sharks win the Stanley Cup this year."

So potentially a 1st rounder & Goldy for Hansen - that could sting bad

I will be vastly lamenting that 1st (31st overall) when they have the parade in San Jose :-)

I am excited to see Oregan, Meier, Lebanc, and Sorensen competing in SJ for a while. Joachim Ryan and Heed look like they are knocking on the door too. Maybe they can move Mueller for value at the draft.

I had a small dream that dougie could land tavares for a package, but oh well... I still worry a bit about the top line C position of the future. Jumbo is clearly slowing and in a year or two, that will be a big hole on the roster. I dont think hertl will fill it and cooch is clearly a solid #2 C, but not the elite C they will lack after jumbo.

I suppose one step at a time....
 

sjrules99

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Also, draft picks in general are overrated. Sure, a crosby/mcdavid like guy comes along here or there and picks in the top 3 are usually big hits, but picks in general arent nearly as valuable in a world where college and euro free agents abound. Look at who dougie has signed as free agents out of Euro or college in the past few years:

Donskoi, Karlsson, Goodrow, Carpenter, Haley, Heed, Dell, Grosenick, Sorensen, etc. Schlemko, Dillon, Ward and Jones were undrafted too. It's not a laundry list of stars, but all have been in the NHL before, and all came without a pick. Then look at the current roster and when the picked players were picked. Pavelski (7th round), Braun (7th), Lebanc (6th), Vlasic (2nd), Tierney (2nd), Demelo (6th)... (nieto-2nd, wingels-6th, Demers-7th)

Aside from patty 20 years ago, the only 1st rounders selected by the sharks currently on the roster are cooch and Hertl. Jumbo, Boedker, and burns were 1st rounders for other teams. However, there are more players on the sharks roster that were selected in the 6th round or later or went undrafted than there are players selected in the 5th round or higher. Dougie has a great history of finding high quality guys available out there, and looking at the system, Meier is a high pick of course, but Oregan, the Barracuda's leading scorer was a 5th round pick and heed, the #1 Dman was undrafted while Ryan the #2 Dman was a 7th rounder. Even Chartier who is climbing the ladder was a 5th rounder.

Obviously 1st round selections have a great likelihood of making it (the sharks have more 1st rounders on the roster than any other round), but guaranteed players of hansen's ilk are worth more than an outside chance of a respectable player. Trading those picks obviously puts pressure on the scouts to replenish the system using deep picks and free agents, but this season has shown clearly that the sharks scouting department can do that. Also, I think the fact that so many of the free agents got an NHL look will attract further free agents to think about SJ as a good destination where they will get a fighting chance.
 

Likewall32

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First rounds are good trade bait.... Agreeing to make a 4th rounder into a 1st if they win for Hansen is dumb as shit.... Say they win, we lose a 1st rounder that couldve been used next your in a trade to improve the team even more... Simple logistics.... Hansen for Goldy was enough. Hansen for Goldy + 1st rounder has potential to be one of the most lopsided trades in Sharks history.
 

Hovertical

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First rounds are good trade bait.... Agreeing to make a 4th rounder into a 1st if they win for Hansen is dumb as shit.... Say they win, we lose a 1st rounder that couldve been used next your in a trade to improve the team even more... Simple logistics.... Hansen for Goldy was enough. Hansen for Goldy + 1st rounder has potential to be one of the most lopsided trades in Sharks history.
and as others mentioned above, if that means they finally won the cup - nobody will give a rats ass (aside from you apparently) about losing the 31st ovr pick - I for sure won't give a shit. Dude, you sound like one of those people that just HAVE to say something negative in every scenario to try and spoil the party.
 

sjrules99

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First rounds are good trade bait.... Agreeing to make a 4th rounder into a 1st if they win for Hansen is dumb as shit.... Say they win, we lose a 1st rounder that couldve been used next your in a trade to improve the team even more... Simple logistics.... Hansen for Goldy was enough. Hansen for Goldy + 1st rounder has potential to be one of the most lopsided trades in Sharks history.

Wall, recognize that Hansen is not a rental. He is signed for 2.5M next year, though SJ only has to pay 2M as van retained 500k. If they win the cup, likely hansen will be a major part of that, and then they would still have him for another year at a totally reasonable cap number. 2M for a player in the top echelon league-wide in EV production is a steal if he stays healthy. I mean, no player on the entire vancouver roster last year or this year has produced at Hansen's EV pace per game. Only 2 sharks have. I foresee him slotting perfectly into the wing with the the joes, and boosting that line at EV, something they have actually not done all that well. (jumbo only has just 25 EV points in 63 games, and several are empty net points). Hansen also led Vancouver last year in +/- by a long shot at +16. I know many on this board don't think much of that, but I see that as a stellar 2-way number. There is a glaring hole on the top line with the joes, Hansen has proven he fits in that role. I expect great things...

Now, the downside is injury risk. If Hansen plays 3 games and gets hurt and misses the PO's, then it's obviously not a great deal. That risk is very real. But even then, his salary number is so small that it really doesnt hurt much.

Goldy is not worth much to the sharks now, as was mentioned before. Look at how sorenson and lebanc have stepped in. Look at the development of Meier. Look at Oregan at point per game in the AHL. Look at how well carpenter did in his stint. The Cuda are chalk full of good prospects, so having goldy languish a nother couple years in the minors simply lessens his value. The time to move him was now, and a 31st overall pick has maybe a 50% chance of becoming an NHLer and like 10-20% or less chance of being a top 9 forward or top 4 Dman. Here is the list of past 30th overall picks from 2013 back (TLDR: only top 6 forwards or top 4 Dmen: Pearson, Rakell, Hartman, Brock nelson[maybe], Sandis Ozolonish). Basically 24 years of picks, arguably one clear bonafide top 4 Dman. Maybe 1 or 2 top 6 forwards (rackell and pearson), maybe 2 top 9 forwards (nelson, hartman). picks are overrated. and the word 1st rounder is a big word, but 30th or 31st overall picks really don't translate into top players often.

2013

Ryan Hartman RW Plymouth (OHL) Chicago Blackhawks
2012 Tanner Pearson LW Barrie (OHL ) Los Angeles Kings
2011 Rickard Rakell RW Plymouth (OHL) Anaheim Ducks
2010 Brock Nelson C Warroad (MN-HS) New York Islanders
2009 Simon Despres D Saint John (QMJHL) Pittsburgh Penguins
2008 Thomas McCollum G Guelph (OHL) Detroit Red Wings
2007 Nick Ross D Regina (WHL) Phoenix Coyotes
2006 Matthew Corrente D Saginaw (OHL) New Jersey Devils
2005 Vladimir Mihalik D Presov (Slovakia-2) Tampa Bay Lightning
2004 Andy Rogers D Calgary Hitmen (WHL) Tampa Bay Lightning
2003 Shawn Belle D Tri-City Americans (WHL) St. Louis Blues
2002 Jim Slater C Michigan State University (NCAA) Atlanta Thrashers
2001 Dave Steckel C Ohio State University (NCAA) Los Angeles Kings
2000 Jeff Taffe C U. of Minnesota (NCAA) St. Louis Blues
1999 Luke Sellars D Ottawa 67's (OHL) Atlanta Thrashers
1998 Kyle Rossiter D Spokane Chiefs (WHL) Florida Panthers
1997 Jean-Marc Pelletier G Cornell University (NCAA) Philadelphia Flyers
1996 Josh Green LW Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL) Los Angeles Kings
1995 Mike McBain D Red Deer Rebels (WHL) Tampa Bay Lightning
1994 Deron Quint D Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL) Winnipeg Jets
1993 Nikolai Tsulygin D Ufa Salavat Yulayev (Russia) Anaheim Ducks
1992 Chris O'Sullivan D Catholic Memorial H.S. (Mass.) Calgary Flames
1991 Sandis Ozolinsh D Dynamo Riga (Latvia) San Jose Sharks
1990 Rod Pasma D Cornwall Royals (OHL) Washington Capitals
 

sjrules99

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First rounds are good trade bait.... Agreeing to make a 4th rounder into a 1st if they win for Hansen is dumb as shit.... Say they win, we lose a 1st rounder that couldve been used next your in a trade to improve the team even more... Simple logistics.... Hansen for Goldy was enough. Hansen for Goldy + 1st rounder has potential to be one of the most lopsided trades in Sharks history.

I'd also mention that the market is what it is. Maybe, without that condition, Van doesnt do the deal. if they dont, then one or two injuries and the sharks will dress all of Haley, Sorenson, Lebanc, and meier in the PO's. Im not sure that's sufficient depth to compete with the best teams in the league. And, if that injury is to a guy like pavs, or cooch, patty, or jumbo, then it's that much more painful.

Now the Sharks depth is way way better, and they can afford to roll 4 threatening lines. That was a big big part of their success last year.

Jumbo-pavs-hansen
Patty-cooch-boedker
hertl-Ward-Donkey
Tierney-Karlsson-Lebanc

That's 4 very good lines with two-way threats on each one. Speed up and down the lineup. Depth in case of injury as any of the 4th liners could slot anywhere in the top 3 lines. Without hansen, Lebanc has been with the Joe's but the production of that line at EV has been woefully inadequate for a top line. No one else has been much better there. Hansen has experience right there, with 22 goals last year and a great track record with the twins.

That lineup makes matchup issues for any opponent. Who do you slot your shut down pair against? Who do you expose your third pairing against? all 4 lines with come at you in waves.

The only weakness remains the offensive Dman behind burns. Burns is amazing but none of martin, vlasic, braun, dillon, schlemko, or demelo scares opponents and forces them to spread the ice in the defensive zone. right now teams have to come out to pressure burns, but when he isnt on there, they can collapse down low and block point shots making it much tougher to score. I wish they had been able to ad another top 4 Dman who could score goals at EV, and particularly for the 2nd PP unit which is basically a waste of time right now.

Maybe Shlemko's injury paves the way for Heed to have a chance to fill that role? He only leads the entire AHL in points per game by a Dman (min 25 gp) to go along with a +17. And 7 PPG, which is a big need. Im not sure why dougie didnt give him a real chance. He's not a green rookie. he's 26. I would have loved to see him get a real chance to see if he is a potential top 4 Dman for this team.
 

Likewall32

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Im not saying I dont like the trade, Im just saying potentially upping that to a 1st seems like a huge over payment
 

Likewall32

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Also I cant undertstand why people are behind sorenson so much?? the team had been pretty shitty honestly since he got a spot.. Dipshit fans look at OTL as wins, I look at them an blown leads, and once sorenson joined the lineup SJ went on a tear of blowing leads & OT loses.... they may have went something like 4-1-5 where tardos will like YEA!! 1 loss in 10 games... no silly pants, thats 6 loses in 10 games and your below .500.... sorenson hasnt done shit IM... Haley shouldnt be on the roster either... thats another reason I question this trade... like how does sorenson get a nod over goldy? how do people actually like him being on the roster?

either way, I know im on a teal glasses koolaid board, so ill always look like the black flag... but fuck, how anyone puts sorenson over goldy is odd as shit...

PS goldy, 1 gm, 1 g... keep it up, do your shit..
 
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