Built not bought blowing it up

[The Q]

No doubt.

That is why I suggested the Warriors consider trading Wiseman for him.

But retired jersey?

Cmon now.

He is not anywhere in the ballpark of having done anything to warrant that.

To me Charlotte is the most obvious fit.

They have the offense but their d is not good. This guy anchors the d.

 

[tlance]

No one said it’s going to happen, but if he plays seven more years with the Pacers and wins a DPOY in the process - It would need to be considered. That would bring him up to 14 seasons with the Pacers.

By comparison, Jermaine O’Neal has yet to have his number retired in spite of campaigning from fans. The reason for his omission more likely than not is lack of service time. Though he made six all-star appearances with the Pacers, he only spent eight seasons here and many of them were injury-riddled.

There are so many ifs that haven’t come close to materializing, that it is a pretty dumb comment to make as a possibility.

 

[trojanfan12]

No one said it’s going to happen, but if he plays seven more years with the Pacers and wins a DPOY in the process - It would need to be considered. That would bring him up to 14 seasons with the Pacers.

lol

For 14 years and 1 DPOY award? Seems like that would be a bit of an insult to the other retired numbers.

 

[trojanfan12]

The reason for his omission more likely than not is lack of service time.

The Pacers retired George McGinnis' number he only played for them the last 3 years of his career.

 

[tlance]

The Pacers retired George McGinnis' number he only played for then the last 3 years of his career.

He spent the first 4 seasons of his career with the Pacers ABA team and he was one of the best players in the entire league.

That is why they retired his Jersey.

 

[trojanfan12]

He spent the first 4 seasons of his career with the Pacers ABA team and he was one of the best players in the entire league.

That is why they retired his Jersey.

Aaah, I missed that. I figured it had to do with the ABA because that's where the Pacers came from and he was one of the best players in the ABA. Didn't notice that he spent his first 4 years with them though. Just figured it was to honor him because both started there.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

lol

For 14 years and 1 DPOY award? Seems like that would be a bit of an insult to the other retired numbers.

Nick Collison spent 15 years with the Sonics/Thunder franchise and his high water mark individually was a lone season in which he averaged 10 and 9 on a team that won 20 games.

Service time should be rewarded and FWIW I don't and will not have a problem with the Ilgauskas and Haslem jerseys being retired.

All you're doing is continuing to make an argument that isn't really there. Turner may or may not be traded, but there's still that possibility he may remain here until he's 32.

Merry Christmas to all and too all a goodnight.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Nick Collison spent 15 years with the Sonics/Thunder franchise and his high water mark individually was a lone season in which he averaged 10 and 9 on a team that won 20 games.

Service time should be rewarded and FWIW I don't and will not have a problem with the Ilgauskas and Haslem jerseys being retired.

All you're doing is continuing to make an argument that isn't really there. Turner may or may not be traded, but there's still that possibility he may remain here until he's 32.

Merry Christmas to all and too all a goodnight.

if the Cavs didn't already have a very solid and deep front court of Allen, Mobley, Love, Markkenen, I would def. lobby for them to trade for Turner- who while isnt a star- is an oustanding defensive player, is leading the NBA in blocks, never complains, and always plays hard.

on this list he is 13th in defensive win shares. Some of these guys benefit from playing on good defenses (I am looking at you Rubio and Curry)---- but there are a lot of names you would expect to see high on this list and Turner is one of them.

NBA Defensive Rating Leaders This Season | StatMuse

Rudy Gobert has the best defensive rating this season, with a 103.9 rating.

www.statmuse.com

 

[BigKen]

The only problem with retiring numbers is that eventually you'll run out of numbers that fit on a jersey.

Celtics Retired Numbers​

1: Retired on Oct. 17, 1964 in honor of the founder and first owner of the Boston Celtics, Walter Brown. Brown owned the Celtics for the first 18 years of the team's existence, from 1946 through 1964.
2: Retired on Jan. 4, 1985 in honor of Arnold "Red" Auerbach. The number signifies the fact that Auerbach is second only to Brown as the most significant person in the history of the organization. He coached the team from 1950 to 1966, winning nine NBA titles. He then went on to serve as General Manager, leading Boston to an additional seven NBA championships.

​

3: Retired on Dec. 13, 1991 in honor of guard Dennis Johnson. "DJ" played for the Celtics for seven seasons from 1983 through 1990. He helped the Green and White win a pair of World Titles in 1984 and 1986.
6: Retired on Mar. 12, 1972 in honor of Bill Russell. Russell, regarded as one of the greatest basketball players of all time, anchored the Celtics teams that won nine straight titles with him at center and then two more as player/coach.
10: Retired on Apr. 9,1982 in honor of Jo Jo White. White was the point guard won two Celtics World Championship squads (1974 and 1976).
14: Retired on Oct. 16, 1963 in honor of Bob Cousy. Over his 13-year career, all spent with the Celtics, "Cooz" won eight titles and one MVP award. He still stands as the franchise's all-time leader in assists with 6,945.
15: Retired on Oct. 15, 1966 in honor of Tom Heinsohn. Heinsohn won eight titles in his nine year career. He also coached the Celtics to a pair of titles in 1974 and 1976.

​

16: Retired in January, 1973 in honor of Tom "Satch" Sanders. Sanders played for the Celtics from 1960 through 1973, winning eight NBA titles. He is remembered for being smart, durable (he played 80+ games seven times) and tough.
17: Retired Oct. 13, 1978 in honor of John Havlicek. Considered one of the greatest all-around players ever, he led the Celtics in scoring eight times, in assists six times and in rebounding once. He was part of eight NBA championship teams and was named to eight All-NBA Defensive teams.
18: Retired on Feb. 8, 1981 in honor of Dave Cowens. Cowens played for the Celtics from 1970 through 1980, winning two World Titles with Celtics, as well as one MVP award in 1972-73.
19: Retired in honor of Don Nelson. Nelson, an eleven-year veteran of the Celtics, was a key member of five World Championship teams. At forward he often provided the C's with much-needed strength on the glass.
21: Retired on Oct. 15, 1966 in honor of Bill Sharman. Sharman was an integral part of the Celtics first five World Championships. He was the team's leading scorer for five seasons, from 1955 through 1959.
22: Retired on Oct. 16, 1963 in honor of Ed Macauley. "Easy Ed" was one of the Celtics first stars, as he led the team in scoring in 1950-51 and 1952-53 and in rebounding from 1952 through 1955.

​

23: Retired in honor of Frank Ramsey. Ramsey revolutionized basketball by becoming the game's first celebrated Sixth Man. He played for the C's during the 1954-55 season and from 1956 through 1964.
24: Retired on Mar. 9, 1969 in honor of Sam Jones. Jones led the Celtics in scoring four times in his Celtics career, which spanned twelve seasons from 1957 through 1969.
25: Retired on Feb. 12, 1967 in honor of K.C. Jones. Jones was an integral part of every Celtics championship team from 1959 through 1967, and he coached the team to two titles in the 80's.
32: Retired on Jan. 30, 1994 in honor of Kevin McHale. McHale, one of the greatest post players of all-time, won three titles with the Celtics and was a seven-time All-Star.
33: Retired on Feb. 4, 1993 in honor of Larry Bird. Bird led the team to three World Titles and was named the NBA's MVP for three straight years. He remains the Celtics all-time leader in points per game average (24.3).
35: Retired on Mar. 22, 1995 in honor of the late Reggie Lewis. Lewis led the Celtics in scoring in both 1991-92 and 1992-93, and served as the captain of the team in 1992-93.
00: Retired on Jan. 18, 1998 in honor of Robert Parish. "The Chief" was the Celtics starting center during three championship seasons. He led the team in rebounding eight times during his 14-year Celtics career. He was a nine-time All-Star.
LOSCY: Retired in honor of Jim Loscutoff. Loscutoff, a hard-nosed standout for the Celtics from 1955 through 1964, asked that his number (18) not be retired so that a future Celtic could wear it. The number was later retired in honor of Cowens.

 

[tlance]

The only problem with retiring numbers is that eventually you'll run out of numbers that fit on a jersey.

Celtics Retired Numbers​

1: Retired on Oct. 17, 1964 in honor of the founder and first owner of the Boston Celtics, Walter Brown. Brown owned the Celtics for the first 18 years of the team's existence, from 1946 through 1964.
2: Retired on Jan. 4, 1985 in honor of Arnold "Red" Auerbach. The number signifies the fact that Auerbach is second only to Brown as the most significant person in the history of the organization. He coached the team from 1950 to 1966, winning nine NBA titles. He then went on to serve as General Manager, leading Boston to an additional seven NBA championships.

​

3: Retired on Dec. 13, 1991 in honor of guard Dennis Johnson. "DJ" played for the Celtics for seven seasons from 1983 through 1990. He helped the Green and White win a pair of World Titles in 1984 and 1986.
6: Retired on Mar. 12, 1972 in honor of Bill Russell. Russell, regarded as one of the greatest basketball players of all time, anchored the Celtics teams that won nine straight titles with him at center and then two more as player/coach.
10: Retired on Apr. 9,1982 in honor of Jo Jo White. White was the point guard won two Celtics World Championship squads (1974 and 1976).
14: Retired on Oct. 16, 1963 in honor of Bob Cousy. Over his 13-year career, all spent with the Celtics, "Cooz" won eight titles and one MVP award. He still stands as the franchise's all-time leader in assists with 6,945.
15: Retired on Oct. 15, 1966 in honor of Tom Heinsohn. Heinsohn won eight titles in his nine year career. He also coached the Celtics to a pair of titles in 1974 and 1976.

​

16: Retired in January, 1973 in honor of Tom "Satch" Sanders. Sanders played for the Celtics from 1960 through 1973, winning eight NBA titles. He is remembered for being smart, durable (he played 80+ games seven times) and tough.
17: Retired Oct. 13, 1978 in honor of John Havlicek. Considered one of the greatest all-around players ever, he led the Celtics in scoring eight times, in assists six times and in rebounding once. He was part of eight NBA championship teams and was named to eight All-NBA Defensive teams.
18: Retired on Feb. 8, 1981 in honor of Dave Cowens. Cowens played for the Celtics from 1970 through 1980, winning two World Titles with Celtics, as well as one MVP award in 1972-73.
19: Retired in honor of Don Nelson. Nelson, an eleven-year veteran of the Celtics, was a key member of five World Championship teams. At forward he often provided the C's with much-needed strength on the glass.
21: Retired on Oct. 15, 1966 in honor of Bill Sharman. Sharman was an integral part of the Celtics first five World Championships. He was the team's leading scorer for five seasons, from 1955 through 1959.
22: Retired on Oct. 16, 1963 in honor of Ed Macauley. "Easy Ed" was one of the Celtics first stars, as he led the team in scoring in 1950-51 and 1952-53 and in rebounding from 1952 through 1955.

​

23: Retired in honor of Frank Ramsey. Ramsey revolutionized basketball by becoming the game's first celebrated Sixth Man. He played for the C's during the 1954-55 season and from 1956 through 1964.
24: Retired on Mar. 9, 1969 in honor of Sam Jones. Jones led the Celtics in scoring four times in his Celtics career, which spanned twelve seasons from 1957 through 1969.
25: Retired on Feb. 12, 1967 in honor of K.C. Jones. Jones was an integral part of every Celtics championship team from 1959 through 1967, and he coached the team to two titles in the 80's.
32: Retired on Jan. 30, 1994 in honor of Kevin McHale. McHale, one of the greatest post players of all-time, won three titles with the Celtics and was a seven-time All-Star.
33: Retired on Feb. 4, 1993 in honor of Larry Bird. Bird led the team to three World Titles and was named the NBA's MVP for three straight years. He remains the Celtics all-time leader in points per game average (24.3).
35: Retired on Mar. 22, 1995 in honor of the late Reggie Lewis. Lewis led the Celtics in scoring in both 1991-92 and 1992-93, and served as the captain of the team in 1992-93.
00: Retired on Jan. 18, 1998 in honor of Robert Parish. "The Chief" was the Celtics starting center during three championship seasons. He led the team in rebounding eight times during his 14-year Celtics career. He was a nine-time All-Star.
LOSCY: Retired in honor of Jim Loscutoff. Loscutoff, a hard-nosed standout for the Celtics from 1955 through 1964, asked that his number (18) not be retired so that a future Celtic could wear it. The number was later retired in honor of Cowens.

Precisely why most franchises reserve this honor for truly special players.

 

[BigKen]

Precisely why most franchises reserve this honor for truly special players.

That's why "we" as fans don't have any say.

You make a valid point.

 

[trojanfan12]

Nick Collison spent 15 years with the Sonics/Thunder franchise and his high water mark individually was a lone season in which he averaged 10 and 9 on a team that won 20 games.

Service time should be rewarded and FWIW I don't and will not have a problem with the Ilgauskas and Haslem jerseys being retired.

All you're doing is continuing to make an argument that isn't really there. Turner may or may not be traded, but there's still that possibility he may remain here until he's 32.

Merry Christmas to all and too all a goodnight.

Im not making an argument about anything. Even if he stays his whole career, hes not a player that you retire a number for. At least not unless you get a couple of titles and he was a big part of it.

Reggie Miller is the kind of player whose number you retire for spending his entire career with a franchise.

That is not a knock against Turner either, he is a good player. I wish the Lakers could get him. Its more about how great a player was and how important he was to a team.

Also, maybe Turner stays, Indy gets a lot better and wins a couple of titles with him in a Udonis Haslem role. If that happens, then yeah, maybe they retire his number. Wouldnt seem to make a lot of sense otherwise.

 

[bksballer89]

Sabonis and Turner for AD.

Who say no?

 

[tlance]

Sabonis and Turner for AD.

Who say no?

Ummmm….

The Lakers?

That would be incredibly stupid.

 

[Mebert]

if the Cavs didn't already have a very solid and deep front court of Allen, Mobley, Love, Markkenen, I would def. lobby for them to trade for Turner- who while isnt a star- is an oustanding defensive player, is leading the NBA in blocks, never complains, and always plays hard.

on this list he is 13th in defensive win shares. Some of these guys benefit from playing on good defenses (I am looking at you Rubio and Curry)---- but there are a lot of names you would expect to see high on this list and Turner is one of them.

NBA Defensive Rating Leaders This Season | StatMuse

Rudy Gobert has the best defensive rating this season, with a 103.9 rating.

www.statmuse.com

Rubio has always been an underrated D player. The issue is it comes from gambling in the passing lanes. Him being in the top 10 is an outlier, but not extremely surprising. Top 20 twice before.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I'll just leave this here...



I would love nothing more than to be able to trade Sabonis to the Spurs. Derrick White, even though he's already 27 is also a good young veteran to have. He'd provide us a different dimension, because we should all know how injury-prone Malcolm Brogdon is.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Jarrett Culver 12 points off the bench for current #4 seed Memphis on two-of-five threes in their win at Brooklyn tonight. The talent is there, the long-term opportunity in Memphis probably won't be.

 

[thunderc]

Ummmm….

The Lakers?

That would be incredibly stupid.

It’s not really lopsided

 

[tlance]

It’s not really lopsided

Yes it is.

Anthony Davis has not been playing well this season.

But at his best he is truly elite player. He is at a level that Sabonis simply can’t touch because of his ability to dominate on both ends of the floor.

Trading Anthony Davis for 2 guys, who are both good players, is not a good move.

The team who gets the best player wins the trade in the NBA. Anthony Davis is the best player by a long shot. Lakers selling low on him does not make them better.

 

[thunderc]

Yes it is.

Anthony Davis has not been playing well this season.

But at his best he is truly elite player. He is at a level that Sabonis simply can’t touch because of his ability to dominate on both ends of the floor.

Trading Anthony Davis for 2 guys, who are both good players, is not a good move.

The team who gets the best player wins the trade in the NBA. Anthony Davis is the best player by a long shot. Lakers selling low on him does not make them better.

I didn’t say the Lakers shoukd do it, just that with things being how they are at the moment it’s not a lopsided trade. Davis can’t stay healthy and even when healthy he’s just not a guy that seems very motivated. Physically he has Giannis like capabilities, but he has nowhere close to the fire in his belly that Giannis does and that is why it would not be a terrible trade. That and the fact that he can’t stay on the court.