Bad Bullpens?

[magnumo]

I am NOT a fan of Bob Smizik. However, I read his stuff about the Pirates (because I read everything in the local media about the Pirates).

His current article is titled "About Those Pirate Bullpens." In it, he slams the notion that Huntington has put together a series of effective bullpens, essentially from scratch. Now, I'm not a Huntington fan either, but I had a perception (like most fans, I think) that Huntington HAS assembled some pretty decent bullpens, certainly on the cheap.

However, it's hard to argue with the numbers in Smizik's article..... which indicate that Pirate bullpens under NH have been consistently bad. The article was a real "eye-opener" for me.

About those Pirates bullpens

 

[element1286]

Was the bullpen really a problem last year?

I think the notion that Hunington builds good bullpens comes from the fact that he has turned some unheralded guys into useful pieces in the bullpen, not that the Pirates have the best bullpen. He seems to be very good at filling in pieces at a low price where needed, but he doesn't have the horses to rely on that the best bullpens do. At least that is how I always took it.

They aren't going to sign a top tier reliever in free agency, even the most ardent "just spend money" crowd would be against that. He did a good job of getting their elite guy in Hanrahan, but they need to develop some bullpen aces from within. The best bullpens year after year are filled with guys still under team control and have come up through their system. The Pirates haven't had any guy like that come through the system. Justin Wilson could be that type of guy. Where would the Red Sox pen rank if Bard and Papelbon weren't there, or the Braves without Kimbrel and Venters, or the Yanks without Rivera and Robertson last year?

 

[element1286]

But it is an interesting question to ponder. I think he needs to do a better job of getting an effective lefty or two in the pen.

 

[thecrow124]

I haven't read the article, but my argument will always remain the same. When relievers are putting up high innings, the rest of their numbers are goings to be worse. When you don't have a starter put up 200+ innings, your bullpen is going to look bad. Last year our bullpen was top 5-10 in baseball right up until EVERY bullpen guy surpassed their numbers career high in innings. 75 innings is a lot for a bullpen guy and we had 3-4 well past that total. Losing Meek early on didn't help either. As always this is only my humble opinion.

 

[sychmd]

seems like all the rankings are in the top half of the league(with a couple 16's in there). considering all the rest of our team rankings for starting pitching, hitting, runs scored, defense and payroll have been atrocious, lower part of the upper half of the league, and consistently, seems amazingly good.
throw in the comments mentioned above regarding innings worked(which the writer left out), injuries, and recent inexperienced arms, i wish all our other metrics averaged around 12-13 over the last couple years. we would be in better position to attract a better free agent, more people in the stands, and more players willing to play here.

 

[magnumo]

seems like all the rankings are in the top half of the league(with a couple 16's in there). considering all the rest of our team rankings for starting pitching, hitting, runs scored, defense and payroll have been atrocious, lower part of the upper half of the league, and consistently, seems amazingly good.
throw in the comments mentioned above regarding innings worked(which the writer left out), injuries, and recent inexperienced arms, i wish all our other metrics averaged around 12-13 over the last couple years. we would be in better position to attract a better free agent, more people in the stands, and more players willing to play here.

As stated in the article, those rankings are for the 16-team National League..... not the 30 teams of MLB. As such, most of the Pirate rankings are at or near the bottom. The BEST numbers listed (a couple of 9's) are in the bottom half.

 

[thedddd]

I am not saying the Pirate bullpens have been good. They have had a few bright spots and have been able to move parts of it for other places of need but they had had some real stinkers!

The stats for bullpens really reminds me a lot to +/- in hockey. It is more a direct correlation to the way the rest of the team is playing versus the individual.

Now if it was possible I would like to see the bullpen numbers when they start fresh innings vs when inheriting runners and pitching out of bad situations. Also where they ranked in innings pitched during that time period and the frequency of how often they came into bad situations with runners on and in scoring position.

 

[magnumo]

As crow indicated above, the Pirate bullpen DID pitch a lot of innings. In fact, I believe they led NL bullpens in innings pitched. Also, as crow indicated, the bullpen pitched pretty well during the first half and then fell apart (like the starting rotation). Their heavy workload may mean that the bullpen wasn't as bad (at least in 2011) as the stats in that Smizik piece indicate.

I notice that Bob Cohn in today's Trib touts the Pirates' pitching staff as the team's "strength." Use the link on this page:

Pittsburgh Pirates News, Scores, Schedules & Stats - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Or go directly to the article here:

Cast will be mostly the same entering spring training - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

I'm somewhat baffled by Cohn's assessment. In the article, he chronicles the very good first half performance AND the collapse after the break..... which resulted in a team ERA of 4.04 for the season, ranking 17th of 30 teams in MLB. Better than the previous year, for sure, but I wouldn't call Pirate pitching a strength, especially the way they performed after the break.

This year's staff has a CHANCE to be decent..... IF Bedard stays healthy and pitches the way he can, IF Morton recovers from his hip surgery and continues to develop, IF Karstens shows that last season was not a fluke, IF Correia doesn't stink up the place, IF McDonald can gain consistency and control, IF Hanrahan can repeat, IF Meek returns to form, IF they can replace Veras's innings effectively, IF whoever the bullpen lefties are pitch reasonably well, etc., etc. In my book, there are just too many "IF's" to call the pitching a strength at this point. I'd feel MUCH better if NH picks up another viable starter.

Certainly, I hope the pitching BECOMES a strength. Without that, 2012 will be another dismal season for Pirate fans.