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Any chance at all

YankeeRebel

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They climb the rankings by beating up on a bunch of nobodies, basically. Whoopdeedoo!

And Minnesota's hardly dead. Compare it's first 4 non-covid years to Clemson's first 4 years under their current coach and there is not much difference.

One sign of the progress made under Fleck? instead of having one good year and then falling back down out of contention, this should be the 3rd straight year being a contender for the West Division Title. After last year, UMn sent 8 former players into the NFL, 4 via the draft, 4 others via free agency. 12-17 years ago, there was one year UMn had ONLY ONE guy playing in the NFL, now they've got between 20-30. UMn's now got Grad transfers from 3 of the Top 8 teams in the poll right now, with a 4th player who transferred out of the Top 8 team after only 2 years, he's been here 2 and has 2 more years of eligibility left. My point? When in the past did players from Michigan, Clemson, Texas A & M AND NOTRE DAME all choose to transfer to Minnesota??? NEVER. Now under Fleck, he got one of them 2 years ago and 3 of them this year. Grad transfers, so guy who could go anywhere. 2 players made a pre-season all america roster. I could go on and on like this.

Minnesota's got a very new Student Center-Village/Practice Center that came about soon after Fleck showed up. UMn's got a better record than all but one of the 15 schools either coming to the B1G or considered a candidate. The one they don't, is Oregon and they've only got one less win than Oregon over the last 6 years. You going to say Oregon is a nobody?
You need a closer look at this.
 

fightinfunbags

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This is true for both teams.

In all honesty this if Freeman's first year as the ND head coach we have to expect some speed bumps. What I like to date about him is recruiting, look at the potential commitments for 2023 ND and Bama are neck and neck
I’m excited about the Freeman era. At the same time, your first experience as a head coach being at Notre Dame is a daunting task. As I’ve said to friends, even if Freeman isn’t the guy in the end, he will leave the roster well positioned with talent. Here’s hoping he works out though.
 

YankeeRebel

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I’m excited about the Freeman era. At the same time, your first experience as a head coach being at Notre Dame is a daunting task. As I’ve said to friends, even if Freeman isn’t the guy in the end, he will leave the roster well positioned with talent. Here’s hoping he works out though.
. Next years recruiting class is projected top 3 which is nice. I tend to like when they target one or two five star recruits and load up on 4 and 3 star. Reasoning for this is some 5 Stars are close to peaked in talent, or played against sub part talent and are overrated. 3 and 4 stars provide depth and room for improvement. I don't feel there is a vast difference between 4 and 5.
 
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fightinfunbags

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. Next years recruiting class is projected top 3 which is nice. I tend to like when they target one or two five star recruits and load up on 4 and 3 star. Reasoning for this is some 5 Stars are close to peaked in talent, or played against sub part talent and are overrated. 3 and 4 stars provide depth and room for improvement. I don't feel there is a vast difference between 4 and 5.
The “stars” are for we fans. I tend to look at a prospect’s offer list. If Alabama Georgia OSU etc want the prospect, I feel pretty good that prospect has high upside talent.
 

fishinabarrel

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Yes. They absolutely could do it. If Ohio States defensive line hasn't improved and gets pushed around by NDs very good offensive line then they can't keep Ohio States offense off the field.

As good as the offense was last season, Ohio State actually had a fair share of red zone struggles and settled for field goals when they didn't get the big play/quick strike. ND would have to make this happen as well.

However, if Ohio States offense gets going against what was not a good defensive backfield for ND last season and they force ND to abandon the run, it's going to get really really ugly
 

fightinfunbags

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Yes. They absolutely could do it. If Ohio States defensive line hasn't improved and gets pushed around by NDs very good offensive line then they can't keep Ohio States offense off the field.

As good as the offense was last season, Ohio State actually had a fair share of red zone struggles and settled for field goals when they didn't get the big play/quick strike. ND would have to make this happen as well.

However, if Ohio States offense gets going against what was not a good defensive backfield for ND last season and they force ND to abandon the run, it's going to get really really ugly
Great points. I think a matchup inside of the matchup to follow is what you cite here and the type of style the game will be played with. If it’s a track meet then advantage OSU. ND’s back 7 can be exploited. ND is going to be starting a QB making his first start in that environment. They’re incentivized to run the ball and shorten the game. ND wants this to be a low scoring contest. Personally, I’m worried about OSU in the 2nd quarter. It seems like Day and his staff do a great job of adjusting on the fly and attacking what the defense gives them. In the end, I see Stroud being the QB that makes the plays to win and Buchner makes 3-4 big mistakes in his inexperience. Hope I’m wrong. I think ND can survive an early loss in this spot if they can use this game to regroup and get better. I’m Missouri when it comes to Notre Dame. This is expressly the kind of spot ND hasn’t been able to close in. They’ve rebuilt the infrastructure and have been a great program. But they haven’t competed and beaten an elite team.
 

DJ

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Hearing that OSU's defense is pretty porous so it's possible.
 

fightinfunbags

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Vegas is giving the Irish no chance. Haven’t checked the line since this morning but last I checked the spread was OSU -17.5.
 

BamaDude

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They climb the rankings by beating up on a bunch of nobodies, basically. Whoopdeedoo!

And Minnesota's hardly dead. Compare it's first 4 non-covid years to Clemson's first 4 years under their current coach and there is not much difference.

One sign of the progress made under Fleck? instead of having one good year and then falling back down out of contention, this should be the 3rd straight year being a contender for the West Division Title. After last year, UMn sent 8 former players into the NFL, 4 via the draft, 4 others via free agency. 12-17 years ago, there was one year UMn had ONLY ONE guy playing in the NFL, now they've got between 20-30. UMn's now got Grad transfers from 3 of the Top 8 teams in the poll right now, with a 4th player who transferred out of the Top 8 team after only 2 years, he's been here 2 and has 2 more years of eligibility left. My point? When in the past did players from Michigan, Clemson, Texas A & M AND NOTRE DAME all choose to transfer to Minnesota??? NEVER. Now under Fleck, he got one of them 2 years ago and 3 of them this year. Grad transfers, so guy who could go anywhere. 2 players made a pre-season all america roster. I could go on and on like this.

Minnesota's got a very new Student Center-Village/Practice Center that came about soon after Fleck showed up. UMn's got a better record than all but one of the 15 schools either coming to the B1G or considered a candidate. The one they don't, is Oregon and they've only got one less win than Oregon over the last 6 years. You going to say Oregon is a nobody?
How many of those grad transfers were starters at their former schools?
 

BamaDude

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No, the Big Ten West is NOT one of the worst divisions in college football you absolute moron!

It's better than BOTH of the Divisions of the Pac-12, it's better than at least one of the Divisions of the ACC and it's better than one of the Divisions of the SEC. That makes it one of the BEST divisions in college football, 3rd best overall. Granted the Big 12 doesn't have divisions, so it's hard to judge them vs all the Conferences with divisions, and I've already done the research so I wouldn't push this and make yourself look even dumber than you already look.

And recruiting rankings don't win games. Coaches and players do. A good coach or recruiter can find talent where the rankings don't reflect it. Also, it's been proven that far more often than not, players who commit to top schools rankings rise after the commitment and players who commit to non top schools fall. Now it's not every time or across the board, but like I said, more often than not. So like I said, it's wins I pay attention to.


Oh, and Dabo, in years 2-4, had only won 25 games, while Fleck in his 2-4th non covid years won 27 games!!!

Fleck only has to win 9 games this year to keep up with Dabo. Dabo didn't have his breakout season, going 14-1, losing the Title game until his 8th year at Clemson, took til his 9th year there before he won the title. That gives Fleck 4 more seasons to get 14 wins or into the Title game and 5 more to win a Natl Title. Not saying that will happen, but it absolutely could.
There are several ways you can re-frame each coaches stats to try to make a point, but how's this for comparison: in each coaches' first full seven years as a head coach, P.J. Fleck was 53-37 (4 years at Western Michigan, 3 at Minnesota); and Dabo Swinney was 71-24 (all at Clemson). That's 18 more wins, 13 fewer losses.
 

BamaDude

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I’m excited about the Freeman era. At the same time, your first experience as a head coach being at Notre Dame is a daunting task. As I’ve said to friends, even if Freeman isn’t the guy in the end, he will leave the roster well positioned with talent. Here’s hoping he works out though.
Look at it this way: Freeman communicates with & inspires his players - because he gets them. Just like when James Franklin took over the program at Vanderbilt. They produced for him like they had for no other coach in recent memory. That's why he's at Penn St. today. Freeman may be able to push his players to that next level, as well. We'll find out Saturday.
 

fightinfunbags

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Look at it this way: Freeman communicates with & inspires his players - because he gets them. Just like when James Franklin took over the program at Vanderbilt. They produced for him like they had for no other coach in recent memory. That's why he's at Penn St. today. Freeman may be able to push his players to that next level, as well. We'll find out Saturday.
If it’s Saturday wow that would be amazing. I think it will take time though.
 

fredsdeadfriend

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There are several ways you can re-frame each coaches stats to try to make a point, but how's this for comparison: in each coaches' first full seven years as a head coach, P.J. Fleck was 53-37 (4 years at Western Michigan, 3 at Minnesota); and Dabo Swinney was 71-24 (all at Clemson). That's 18 more wins, 13 fewer losses.
Coaches almost always experience a dip when they move from one school to another. Not fair to hold the first year at WMU against Fleck, or his first season or two at Minnesota. Both schools needed rebuilding, far more so than was needed when Dabo replaced Tommy at Clemson. Tommy wasn't killing it, and Kill's 1 year replacement wasn't horrible, but Fleck isn't your normal coach, he brings in his own players and a totally new environment/system, takes a little time, so his switching from WMU to UMn was something Dabo didn't have to deal with.
 
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