• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Andrew Luck Best QB Prospect Since Elway

BINGO

New Member
10,815
0
0
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Originally Published: December 8, 2011
The top 10 QB draft grades
Mel reveals his top QB prospect grades since 1979; where will Andrew Luck By Mel Kiper Jr.
ESPN Insider
Archive

Where do Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning rank on Mel's all-time QB evaluation list?

I put out my first draft guide in 1979. This was back when there were 12 rounds of picks. It was endless. That year, the Buffalo Bills took Ohio State linebacker Tom Cousineau with the No. 1 overall pick. Cousineau wasn't too undersized for that time at 225 pounds, but he was a bust given his draft position. He finished his career with just 66 total starts. It was a good reality check; the game is filled with an extraordinary amount of uncertainty, and you can spend thousands of hours on tape, talking to coaches, players and scouts, but you'll still be wrong a lot. There's no way around it.

Most people don't remember Cousineau, but they always remember the quarterbacks. When you're deemed wrong on a quarterback, it sticks, but it's just part of the business. With the buzz surrounding Andrew Luck, I was asked to rank the top 10 quarterbacks I've ever graded -- with a few stipulations.

1. This is a ranking of guys based on their final draft grade the day before the draft, and it only goes back to 1979, since I've been grading.
2. It does not at all reflect NFL performance. (See: Ware, Andre)
3. I was told to say where Luck fits in. I will reveal that.

So here are the top 10 guys in order of draft grades since I've been in the game and where I believe Luck will enter the list.

1. John Elway (No. 1 pick, 1983)
The thing I'll always come back to with Elway is the unbelievable arm strength. It's still the best I've seen. But Elway had more touch than people realize -- he could make all the throws. His mobility was fantastic, and he was an extremely smart player. It wasn't just the Stanford cliché, either. Elway is the son of a coach and read the game at very high level before he got to the NFL.



2. Jim Kelly (No. 14, 1983)
Did you know Kelly was actually recruited to Penn State as a linebacker? He was. Joe Paterno wanted him as a linebacker at the school known as Linebacker U. But Kelly flourished under Howard Schnellenberger at Miami. Kelly was very accurate, a true sharpshooter, was really clean executing in what we considered at the time a pro-style system (remember, the option was still flourishing in college football). He had good size and what I considered an extremely high floor.


3. Drew Bledsoe (No. 1, 1993)
A natural, Bledsoe had neither perfect mechanics nor much athleticism, but he could make any throw, saw the whole field and was just really advanced for his age, which we saw in his NFL career when he threw for over 4,555 yards (before everybody was doing it) at the age of 22. He was a college starter at 18, and had an effortlessness to his approach.


Not every QB on this list has a picture with the Lombardi trophy.

4. Peyton Manning (No. 1, 1998)
As has been discussed endlessly, it was Manning or the next guy on this list for No. 1 in 1998, and the Colts got it right. In my grades, I had Manning just ahead, but it wasn't by far. People should remember that Manning had arm strength, but he gained arm strength in the NFL too. And Manning had experience, but he'd lost some big games at Tennessee with forgettable performances. He was a superb prospect, but wasn't without questions. Size, arm, accuracy and intangibles were there, however.


5. Ryan Leaf (No. 2, 1998)
A new history has been written for Leaf, but I don't mind at all saying that he was a fantastic prospect. He had incredible size, a big-time arm and could throw the touch pass or launch huge throws downfield. We see a caricature of Leaf as a malcontent, but at Washington State he was a winner, a leader and flat-out willed his team to the Rose Bowl. If his pro career had gone differently, we'd talk about how Leaf fit all the clichés you'd expect of a No. 1 pick. But I was wrong. The funny thing is, if you saw that total package again, you'd make the same mistake. It didn't work out for Leaf, but this is where he was graded. His status as a prospect just wasn't a question. He was a fantastic college player, and a very good prospect. It just didn't work out in the NFL.


6. Vinny Testaverde (No. 1, 1987)
If you want a vision of a guy with picture-perfect mechanics, the release that scouts rave over and the look of a prototype, Testaverde was pretty close to it going into the draft. His release was up high, so he played taller than 6-foot-3. He was smart and could roll out of bed and execute an offense, part of the reason he kept getting the call into his 40s. The guy was just a pure talent.


7. Andre Ware (No. 7, 1990)
Today we take for granted the idea that you have to be really careful when evaluating QBs out of completely wide-open, pass-happy schemes. But at the time, what Houston was doing wasn't that common, and Ware was fantastic. He didn't have great size, but Ware had piles of great tape, was accurate and had an underrated arm. I think he perhaps could have been a better pro, but he really got off to a bad start. He held out, and I've spoken to players in that organization who told me Ware got behind and they felt it really cost him early in his career. He didn't have a good NFL career, but he really was a major prospect.


Aikman is the most accurate NFL quarterback Mel's ever seen.

8. Troy Aikman (No. 1, 1989)
This is going to sound crazy to some people, because Aikman isn't a big stats guy with some gaudy completion percentage, but Aikman is the most accurate NFL quarterback I've ever seen. I mean that. The Cowboys' offense of the '90s wasn't like the current passing offenses we're seeing, dominated by high completion percentage options that make huge QB numbers more rule than exception. Put Aikman in one and he'd put up massive numbers too. And Aikman had that coming in. He had a great arm, could drill the ball into tight windows and had great timing, composure and a very quick, effortless release.


9. Boomer Esiason (No. 38, 1984)
People may be surprised to see Boomer here because he wasn't a very high pick. But he was one player who, for some reason that year, I just had him graded a lot higher than most evaluators. It can go both ways. A talented pitcher too, Esiason didn't have a monster arm, but he had a great feel and would utilize numerous teammates.


10. Steve Young (Round 1 of supplemental draft, 1984)
Young was the rare guy who doesn't have the big arm or elite size but has good ball skills and serious athleticism. Young had legit 4.5 speed, and put great touch on the ball. BYU had a lot of great QB play back then, and Young is the finest example.


Where Luck stands
If I did this list and included Luck based on where I think his pre-draft grade will be, he'd be at No. 2 overall. I still have his prospect grade below Elway at this point, but he edges out Kelly and has the second-highest grade for a QB in the 32 years I've been doing this. That's the kind of elite company he is in.

Mel Kiper has been the premier name in NFL draft prospect evaluations for more than three decades. He started putting out his annual draft guides in 1978 and started contributing to ESPN as an analyst in 1984. For more from Mel, check out his annual draft publications or his home page. He can also be found on Twitter.
 

BINGO

New Member
10,815
0
0
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
I agree with his assessment on Leaf (I was on that bandwagon that year too as a kid). Mel is also accurate on his comment on Aikman being the most accurate QB the league have seen (Young / Montana / Brees are close to Aikman in terms of accuracy...and now Rodgers is showing some Aikman like accuracy as well).
 

deep9er

Well-Known Member
11,000
1,269
173
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
Hawaii
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
I agree with his assessment on Leaf (I was on that bandwagon that year too as a kid). Mel is also accurate on his comment on Aikman being the most accurate QB the league have seen (Young / Montana / Brees are close to Aikman in terms of accuracy...and now Rodgers is showing some Aikman like accuracy as well).

first, if Kiper is anywhere close on his evaluation, then its a no brainer the Colts take Luck. you gotta take him just on his prospects alone, without factoring in Peyton's situation. of course you'd plan ahead with Peyton, but can't pass on the next 'Peyton'.

second, agree with you on Aikman. Emmit Smith was a pain to the 49ers no doubt, but i always felt the killer was Aikman getting those 1st downs. even the few times we'd stop their runs, Aikman always seemed to make the throws when needed. if it wasn't for Emmit Smith, Aikman would have a LOT more passing yards. btw - Irvin's ability to get away with pushing off is another matter.

thirdly, will have to disagree on Aikman being more accurate than Montana or Young. despite what the career stats say (whatever it is?), my 'eye test' says Young was the most accurate, followed by Montana.
 

h0ckeysk83r

Haters gonna hate
2,653
0
0
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So much pressure on the kid already. We will se how he handles it.
 

Texas9erFan

New Member
69
0
0
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Location
Austin, TX
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
So... what would it be worth, if Andrew Luck surprises everyone and comes into the draft saying "I will only play for my coach." and insists on coming to the 49ers???

How many draft picks would you trade for him???
What about players???

I know it probably won't happen, but it's interesting to discuss.
 

NinerSickness

Well-Known Member
61,362
11,401
1,033
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
How many draft picks would you trade for him???
What about players???

I know it probably won't happen, but it's interesting to discuss.

It'd probably take something like a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, next year's 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, Patrick Willis & Frank Gore. Maybe another good player too.
 

deep9er

Well-Known Member
11,000
1,269
173
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
Hawaii
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Wow! That's too high a price for me!

yeah but it would be high, very high. what makes it worse is our draft slot(s) are now in the 20's. to get an IDEA of the cost to US, i'd start with the Eli Manning trade and add Willis.

btw - if it was me, i'd take Willis but not Gore. cause Gore is a RB nearing 30 years old. he's also showing some wear and tear already.
 

Flyingiguana

New Member
5,376
0
0
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
seems like a horrible list overal. most of my qb analysis was geared towards guys falling past the teens and who fit a wco. brees, pennington, jake plummer were some of my highest rated guys.

i wasn't a big fan of ryan leaf. i would have taken woodson over him, who actually underperformed what i thought he would be. and i thought rick mirer was better than bledsoe, but he vanished after his solid 1st year
 

Mozart'sGhost

New Member
4,021
0
0
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Location
"Floating In My Tin Can, High Above The World...."
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
It'd probably take something like a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, next year's 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, Patrick Willis & Frank Gore. Maybe another good player too.

I have a feeling this was said tongue in cheek but I think Harbaugh has a plan for drafting his own type players and would not come close to giving up that many picks for any unproven rookie. I don't think I'd even give up WIllis for him.
 

Flyingiguana

New Member
5,376
0
0
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So... what would it be worth, if Andrew Luck surprises everyone and comes into the draft saying "I will only play for my coach." and insists on coming to the 49ers???

How many draft picks would you trade for him???
What about players???

I know it probably won't happen, but it's interesting to discuss.

he can sign with my argo's, then we can pull a ditka
 

Texas9erFan

New Member
69
0
0
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Location
Austin, TX
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Trading picks seems resonable to me. But I wouldn't trade any players... at least not any starters anyway.
 

clyde_carbon

Unfkwthble
10,563
0
0
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
Cloud 9
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That's ridiculous. The second best QB prospect ever? How is Andrew Luck supposed to measure up to that? How do you even quantify that? I don't see how they're even comparable considering the eras and how differently defenses are played today. What makes him that special? Is it his physical tools? No. Is it the production? There are a lot of other college QBs who set college football ablaze before Luck. Is it his ability to read defenses? Guys like Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford were really good at reading defenses. What makes Luck better than them at this point?

Luck is, by a good margin, one of the best QB prospects of the last decade and is the best player in the '12 draft. But the second best QB prospect of all time? Give me a break. That's impossible to prove, and quite frankly, I don't know that I put him that much over Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, or Peyton Manning as prospects.

The only prospects in recent memory that one can legitimately say are once in a generation type prospects are Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Ndamukong Suh.
 

Mozart'sGhost

New Member
4,021
0
0
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Location
"Floating In My Tin Can, High Above The World...."
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
That's ridiculous. The second best QB prospect ever? How is Andrew Luck supposed to measure up to that? How do you even quantify that? I don't see how they're even comparable considering the eras and how differently defenses are played today. What makes him that special? Is it his physical tools? No. Is it the production? There are a lot of other college QBs who set college football ablaze before Luck. Is it his ability to read defenses? Guys like Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford were really good at reading defenses. What makes Luck better than them at this point?

Luck is, by a good margin, one of the best QB prospects of the last decade and is the best player in the '12 draft. But the second best QB prospect of all time? Give me a break. That's impossible to prove, and quite frankly, I don't know that I put him that much over Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, or Peyton Manning as prospects.

The only prospects in recent memory that one can legitimately say are once in a generation type prospects are Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Ndamukong Suh.

I'd add Barry Sanders to that list.
 

BINGO

New Member
10,815
0
0
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
seems like a horrible list overal. most of my qb analysis was geared towards guys falling past the teens and who fit a wco. brees, pennington, jake plummer were some of my highest rated guys.

i wasn't a big fan of ryan leaf. i would have taken woodson over him, who actually underperformed what i thought he would be. and i thought rick mirer was better than bledsoe, but he vanished after his solid 1st year


I was a big Charles Woodson fan too. Sh8t, my # 1 player on the board that year was Randy Moss. EVERYONE except for the ultra conservative folks loved Moss. I was talking in reference about some of the best QB prospects - I certainly was not evaluating the 1998 class.
 

Kinzu

Well-Known Member
2,495
236
63
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Location
Far side of the moon
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So what happens if Andrew Luck turns out to be a flop at the NFL level? I mean we see it every year how this 1 player coming out of college is a can't miss once in a lifetime talent. We also see it happen all to often that these guys turn out to be average at best.

Reggie Bush was suppose to be the next Barry Sanders and how has that worked out?

What does it do the credibility of the so called experts if Cam Newton ends up a Hall of Fame QB while Andrew Luck ends up an average QB that maybe makes a few Pro-Bowls but never reaches the level of a John Elway or Peyton Manning?
 

MW49ers5

New Member
5,004
0
0
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
So what happens if Andrew Luck turns out to be a flop at the NFL level? I mean we see it every year how this 1 player coming out of college is a can't miss once in a lifetime talent. We also see it happen all to often that these guys turn out to be average at best.

Reggie Bush was suppose to be the next Barry Sanders and how has that worked out?

What does it do the credibility of the so called experts if Cam Newton ends up a Hall of Fame QB while Andrew Luck ends up an average QB that maybe makes a few Pro-Bowls but never reaches the level of a John Elway or Peyton Manning?

Ahh, that is the beautiful part of the art, Kinzu, by the time Luck proves to be flop, the pundits will be coveting the next 'can't miss' prospect. If accuracy were dollar bills and credibility were cars they would all be living in their Yugos.
 

deep9er

Well-Known Member
11,000
1,269
173
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
Hawaii
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
That's ridiculous. The second best QB prospect ever? How is Andrew Luck supposed to measure up to that? How do you even quantify that? I don't see how they're even comparable considering the eras and how differently defenses are played today. What makes him that special? Is it his physical tools? No. Is it the production? There are a lot of other college QBs who set college football ablaze before Luck. Is it his ability to read defenses? Guys like Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford were really good at reading defenses. What makes Luck better than them at this point?

Luck is, by a good margin, one of the best QB prospects of the last decade and is the best player in the '12 draft. But the second best QB prospect of all time? Give me a break. That's impossible to prove, and quite frankly, I don't know that I put him that much over Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, or Peyton Manning as prospects.

The only prospects in recent memory that one can legitimately say are once in a generation type prospects are Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Ndamukong Suh.

he did this list because fans ask him to.

yeah, there's no objective way to rate QB prospects across 'eras', but this wasn't intended to be that. its just HIS opinion and again, fans ask him to do it.
 

numone9er

Active Member
3,359
1
38
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
San Luis Obispo
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That's ridiculous. The second best QB prospect ever? How is Andrew Luck supposed to measure up to that? How do you even quantify that? I don't see how they're even comparable considering the eras and how differently defenses are played today. What makes him that special? Is it his physical tools? No. Is it the production? There are a lot of other college QBs who set college football ablaze before Luck. Is it his ability to read defenses? Guys like Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford were really good at reading defenses. What makes Luck better than them at this point?

Luck is, by a good margin, one of the best QB prospects of the last decade and is the best player in the '12 draft. But the second best QB prospect of all time? Give me a break. That's impossible to prove, and quite frankly, I don't know that I put him that much over Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, or Peyton Manning as prospects.

The only prospects in recent memory that one can legitimately say are once in a generation type prospects are Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Ndamukong Suh.

I agree with this. I would probably add Glen Dorsey to the list if it was me because i thought he was one of those elite can't miss guys.

After Peyton Manning and Tom Brady retire here in a few years it's going to be the Aaron Rodgers, Mathew Stafford, Andrew Luck, and Matt Ryan at the top with Rivers, Eli, and Ben as the veteran older guys. The only guy i don't see Luck surpassing is Aaron Rodgers. I don't see how anyone can possibly play better than Rodgers is right now.
 
Top