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tlance

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It's going to be interesting to see what Ingram can get on his next contract.

I think the Lakers tried to bring him along too slowly his rookie year. He showed improvement over the next 2 seasons, especially 2018-19, but he also missed 53 games over 2017-18 and 2018-19 which, combined with how skinny he is, leads to concerns that he's injury prone.

This year, before the shut down, he was looking like an all star and had played and started all 56 games, but as you point out, he's also about to be an RFA.

Ultimately, I think he will be an all star caliber player for the rest of his career, but if I were an NBA general manager, I'm not sure how much money I would want to bet on that.

I think he will get that pay check after his last season. But that isn’t where his valuation was at last summer. He improved a lot this past year making the Pelicans decision much easier.
 

WiggyRuss

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It's going to be interesting to see what Ingram can get on his next contract.

I think the Lakers tried to bring him along too slowly his rookie year. He showed improvement over the next 2 seasons, especially 2018-19, but he also missed 53 games over 2017-18 and 2018-19 which, combined with how skinny he is, leads to concerns that he's injury prone.

This year, before the shut down, he was looking like an all star and had played and started all 56 games, but as you point out, he's also about to be an RFA.

Ultimately, I think he will be an all star caliber player for the rest of his career, but if I were an NBA general manager, I'm not sure how much money I would want to bet on that.
plus the Magic Johnosn/Luke Walton show was not exactly the best developmental crew out there. Russell went on to a ton of success once he left. Ingram has blossomed once he left. Ball has improved his shot since he left.

Kuzma was really the only guy they developed and kept and they tried to trade him for Bogdonovic from the Kings and the Kings wanted no part of it which kind of shows you where they are at with him.
 

shopson67

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That seems REALLY short of what it will take. You don't think other teams can offer more?

Especially given the general consensus about Wiggins as a net negative player for the majority of his career.
 

msgkings322

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Especially given the general consensus about Wiggins as a net negative player for the majority of his career.

I think astute NBA observers know there's talent and potential there, but you're right he's not some awesome trade chip everyone loves
 

shopson67

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plus the Magic Johnosn/Luke Walton show was not exactly the best developmental crew out there. Russell went on to a ton of success once he left. Ingram has blossomed once he left. Ball has improved his shot since he left.

Kuzma was really the only guy they developed and kept and they tried to trade him for Bogdonovic from the Kings and the Kings wanted no part of it which kind of shows you where they are at with him.

The only things that Russell has improved statistically since he left are his rebounds, shot attempts and minutes. Percentages are relatively the same, and the rest of his counting stats increases are generally in line with more minutes played (and shots taken). Ingram was already on this trajectory prior to leaving, but wasn't going to get enough touches playing with Lebron to maximize his potential. Lonzo has more of a green light to shoot now, but his 3% is still unimpressive at 38%. TOs are up a little, and he hasn't achieved more minutes yet to this point.
 

shopson67

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I think astute NBA observers know there's talent and potential there, but you're right he's not some awesome trade chip everyone loves

We're talking 6 seasons now. How long do you wait until that assumption of potential is assumed lost? Sure, he's athletic. Doesn't seem to care enough or work hard enough. Maybe someone like Pop can reach him...
 

trojanfan12

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plus the Magic Johnosn/Luke Walton show was not exactly the best developmental crew out there. Russell went on to a ton of success once he left. Ingram has blossomed once he left. Ball has improved his shot since he left.

Kuzma was really the only guy they developed and kept and they tried to trade him for Bogdonovic from the Kings and the Kings wanted no part of it which kind of shows you where they are at with him.

Yeah, I put a lot of that on Magic. I think he was expecting these kids to come in with attitudes similar to the Showtime era guys instead of realizing that it's a different time.

Heck, I remember when he coached briefly and commented about how different the players were than what he was used to. Not sure why he'd think it would be different 20+ years later.

Magic never should have gotten involved in the D-Lo thing, should have left that up to the team to figure out and if they couldn't do it...then step in and do something.

Luke wasn't as good as I thought he'd be. But I also don't think he really got a fair deal. It was similar to Blatt in Cleveland...he was hired to bring a bunch of kids along and grow with them, but then Magic was hired and the focus shifted.

To be fair, Ingram improved every season in LA, so he may have still finally broken out this year if he was still in LA. D-Lo actually started playing a lot better towards the end of his last season in LA when Luke moved him to the 2 spot, where he should have been all along.

I think that if the Lakers had committed to the kids the way the Pels did, we'd have seen similar improvement. But Magic grew impatient and decided to blow the whole thing up.
 
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msgkings322

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We're talking 6 seasons now. How long do you wait until that assumption of potential is assumed lost? Sure, he's athletic. Doesn't seem to care enough or work hard enough. Maybe someone like Pop can reach him...

The Dubs already did. He needed to be in a system with more cutting/slashing/passing and switching on defense. Also it's important he's not the #1 or even #2 guy on the team, he's just not that guy. But he can be a very good #3 IMO, maybe not James Worthy level but in that role.

But again, no way him and 1 pick gets Giannis
 

The Q

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So on the radio, they were talking about how the Warriors should handle their draft picks. They will have their high one from sucking so bad this year, and the one they just got from the T-Wolves.

Should they trade them for an established player who can help them right now, to maybe win a title in the next 2-3 years while the core is still not old? Or should they draft a guy who can be a star in 4-5 years so when the current group ages out they can pass the baton?

Is there anyone in this draft who can be a star in 4-5 years? Maybe Wiseman?

I honestly can't decide, so I wanted to get y'all's takes. Especially @CitySushi

And actually @WiggyRuss too, who says smart things when he's not being a biased troll.

this was the wrong draft to be terrible for.

I’d trade down if possible.

they need to be focused on moving dray so they can a true max level player next summer
 

The Q

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Can they trade them for an established player though?

Unless they are packaging another established player with a contract like Wiggins or Dray, or unless they are dealing for another guy on a rookie type deal they can’t.

Because that established player is going to be making a lot more money than the player GS drafts.

I think they are better off using the picks, building their depth back up and going after it with the core they have. Which is pretty formidable assuming Klay comes back strong and Dray was just taking a year off in 2020.

need to move dray to clear cap space for 2021
 

msgkings322

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this was the wrong draft to be terrible for.

I’d trade down if possible.

they need to be focused on moving dray so they can a true max level player next summer

Depends on that player. Dray isn't a max by the way.

But if they can bring in a max level guy somehow by getting rid of Dray and other things, that would be great.

He's still a very good fit for this team when they are healthy.
 

msgkings322

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trojanfan12

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Depends on that player. Dray isn't a max by the way.

But if they can bring in a max level guy somehow by getting rid of Dray and other things, that would be great.

He's still a very good fit for this team when they are healthy.

That's where moving down might make some sense. Especially if they can grab a couple more picks in the deal.

Package them with Dray and get yourselves a good young player or maybe a couple of good young players.
 

The Q

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That's where moving down might make some sense. Especially if they can grab a couple more picks in the deal.

Package them with Dray and get yourselves a good young player or maybe a couple of good young players.

dray won’t bring back much. Trading down to get more picks so you can move green is ideal.

the Knicks are the best bet.

And have plenty of expiring contracts.
 

msgkings322

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That's where moving down might make some sense. Especially if they can grab a couple more picks in the deal.

Package them with Dray and get yourselves a good young player or maybe a couple of good young players.

Certainly an option. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. How do you replace Dray though? A good to great defensive big, who can also run the offense and make passes? Are there young guys out there who can do that?
 

The Q

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Certainly an option. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. How do you replace Dray though? A good to great defensive big, who can also run the offense and make passes? Are there young guys out there who can do that?

he’s not great anymore.

he’s clearly declining. I’d sell before it gets worse
 

msgkings322

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he’s not great anymore.

he’s clearly declining. I’d sell before it gets worse

Eh, he's not as good as 2014-16 but again, who out there can fill that role? There are good defensive bigs, there are good passing bigs, there are not a lot who can do both and also run point.
 

trojanfan12

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Certainly an option. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. How do you replace Dray though? A good to great defensive big, who can also run the offense and make passes? Are there young guys out there who can do that?

Imo, it depends on whether the Warriors believe that he just didn't give a crap this year...or if he just isn't that guy anymore.

I agree. Wouldn't what to have to decide that either. He's a fan favorite, so that automatically would upset some folks.

Then, if it tuns out they were wrong and he played well for the new team...even more people are gonna be pissed.

On the other hand, if you keep him and he just doesn't have it anymore...you're stuck.
 

The Q

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Eh, he's not as good as 2014-16 but again, who out there can fill that role? There are good defensive bigs, there are good passing bigs, there are not a lot who can do both and also run point.

You probably aren’t replacing him with just one player.

you would have to adjust.
 

msgkings322

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Imo, it depends on whether the Warriors believe that he just didn't give a crap this year...or if he just isn't that guy anymore.

I agree. Wouldn't what to have to decide that either. He's a fan favorite, so that automatically would upset some folks.

Then, if it tuns out they were wrong and he played well for the new team...even more people are gonna be pissed.

On the other hand, if you keep him and he just doesn't have it anymore...you're stuck.

There's a reason these guys make so much money (the GMs)

And again, unless there's someone out there with a similar skillset, even a past his prime Draymond is still quite valuable.
 
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