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A few notes based on reading the posts while I took my break.

Stymietee

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Can Cousins win a SB with this team?

Ans: No based upon everything that I’ve read by everyone here, this team gets to and win a SB with improvements everywhere OTHER than at QB. This means, whether intended or not by these same posters that the team will have to improve ala Baltimore with Flacco. At the point of improving in other areas to a championship level, Kirk might be the QB, but he’ll not be the reason why they get there and/or win it.


Chasing the “Elite” QB

This is a huge leap in logic unless you already believe that Kirk is a notch or two below that status. I do not! Is he effective in Gruden’s offense? NO DOUBT! But that severely limits his options elsewhere. There’s a reason why Kirk and SF/ LA are interested in him…familiarity in systems much like the one he currently plays in. None of this makes him remotely close to “Elite” just good/ effective in this type of offense.


Who do we replace him with?

Ans: Another QB of his type/style is the easy answer, and this player, like Cousins, also doesn’t have to be remotely close to “Elite” either. I’ve already identified at least one, who has a much better pedigree than Kirk and will bring more to the position than Kirk has to this point. I don’t give a shit if you agree or not, so let’s dispense with the he can’t beat out Dalton BS, unless you want a reminder that we currently have a QB who also couldn’t beat out a guy that is not even in the league now.


The team will be “set-back” without Kirk, with a rookie or someone else.

Nonsense……Let’s say that Perine effectively improves the running game, and that the defensive changes makes this a top 15 defense. How does replacing Kirk change any of that? It doesn’t!! A vastly improved team remains a vastly improved team with or without the QB. How is it known that the Offense, which I suspect was the intent of such “set-back” speculation won’t be better? In fact, the very best way to improve almost any offensive team is by having to rely on the arm of the QB less. An effective running game does exactly that. Hell, I’m a pretty spry 63+ year old dude, give me a top ten defense and a really efficient running game and I’ll get us into the playoff hunt….possibly better! (see: Flacco, Manning in his last year)


Time to put to rest the Dumbest question ever asked on this site!!

Why would SF or any other team want to pay and trade for Kirk if Washington doesn’t think he’s worth the price? ( or something to that effect)

How does free agency work? Basically, teams are willing to pay for players that another team won’t…correct? Just because Washington won’t or are thus far placing a lower than market value on him, doesn’t mean that there are others who see him differently. So it comes down to this simple reasoning. Quit with the horseshit equivalency questions.

Market value myth

Last time I looked, DC like every other NFL franchise, is a separate privately owned entity. They are free to run their business in any way that they deem proper. There is a NO market value, just the cost of doing business with a CBA in place. Truth is, if that actually set the market, there would be no reason to negotiate. It also holds that, if Dan Snyder offered Kirk half ownership and he accepted it, that sets the market or baseline for other teams to follow, but who says that they have to adhere to it? Looks to me, since 2015, this organization has set its own value on the current QB position which means ONLY one of two things must change in order to get a deal done with Cousins.

1. Kirk and his agent accept what’s being termed the “Lowball” offer which didn’t happen.

2. The Organization changes its MO and offers an acceptable contract beyond their considered value, which also didn’t happen.

Neither of these seem to be in the offing after two years, both are holding fast to their original positions. Dan and Bruce must believe that “renting” him is far better than a long term deal. To most of us this is nonsense, considering the money paid out on the tags, but like I said it’s a privately owned business, to keep him and their hopes for a change of mind on Kirk’s part they were forced to pay the tag. Contractually, they do what they want.


Then there’s this:

Kirk’s record as a starter is blah, blah, blah but it’s a team game when there are losses? WTF? Isn’t it a team game when there are wins? It’s been said that QB’s get all the glory in success and gets too much blame in losses. It is a team game. QB is ONLY part of that team. Time to quit this “most important player” shit as well. For those who insist upon using that old tired “He touches the ball on every play” excuse, that’s not so…ever hear of a direct snap? However, there is one guy that does touch the ball on every play, passes the ball (shotgun), hands off (direct snap) and is responsible for line calls/ blocking assignments, and NO ONE has ever mentioned making them the highest paid and or the “most important” player. (Center)


Best that we’ve had in 20 years BULLSHIT!!

This says nothing about Kirk at all, but rather how utterly futile this organization has been at building a respectable, let alone a winning team in that time frame. This backward logic only works if the twenty years preceding his taking control and not Gruden, actually didn’t count. Put another way, had Kirk been the QB for any ten year stretch of the past 20 before him, the blocking, tackling, running and catching aspects of the team would NOT have improved one iota. (Right Shar Pourdanesh?) Neither would the one decent wide receiver per year and everyone’s favorite “winning off the field” annual free agency signings, poor trades, worse drafts, and organizational dysfunction. Is he the best that we’ve had in 20 years? YEP!! But in perspective, with zero equaling the past 20 years, do this simple math and see what you get…….0+1=?

It really doesn’t make him the best in 20 years, but instead being fortunate enough to have his time in the league when, there was a better opportunity to succeed than at any time preceding it. When there is a real concerted effort at being and doing better as an organization/team with the product on the field instead of “winning off the field.” As Bruce correctly termed it.


Doug Williams:

As much as it pains me to write this, we are right back to square one. Remember Bobby Mitchell? It’s the same thing, with no up-front or decision making authority. Raise your hands if you believe that Bruce Allen is going to give up ANY of his public or private standing?

There was an interesting tidbits in his statement though,….”All I can do is hope and pray that Kirk looks at the big picture and looks at this football team and realizes we do have a pretty solid football team, solid offensive line, he’s got something to work with.”

The subject of that statement was Kirk (Cousins) admonishing him to take a second look at his position (contractually) based upon what he gains on the field, with a possible move towards the current offer (whatever it is). There is really NO other way to read this. Fool hearty? Yep, but I cannot imagine this to be anything other than the company line or the beginning of the end of DW’s tenure.


New VP of Player Personnel Doug Williams said he wants to sign Kirk Cousins to a long-term contract "in the worst way." Resigning Kirk to the last known offer, would be doing exactly that!!
 

GeekSportsFan

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Your Redskins remind me of my Chargers: Lousy ownership keeps teams out of winning championships.
 

GeekSportsFan

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Yours just won't spend money. Ours spends it on the wrong people.
LOL....the way they treated Eric Weddle proves your point. Why they stuck with AJ Smith for so long is a head scratcher. As much as I love my Chargers, we will go nowhere until the Spanos family sells.
 

reptec101

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WTF did I just read? KC is not the best QB weve had in 20 years? That's insane. This guy has set countless Redskin passing records last two years with perhaps the worse running game last two years weve had in 20 years. With his number one WR missing 9 games one of those years. The worse defenses weve had in last 20 years. Top 3 in league if not number 1 overall in (in air) passing of 20+ yards. Releases the ball faster than anyone weve had in last 20 years..resulting in lease amount of sacks taken in last 20 years in a two year span from a starter. So please stop with the not the best QB in last 20 years. Those who cant see that... Well, im not sure what to say.
 

Sportster 72

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Sty, good to see you.

Still don't agree about your assessment of Cousin's or McCarron but it is good to see you. I was wondering where you have been.

Agree about your Doug and Bobby comparison. I hope I am wrong but then too I hoped the FO wouldn't screw up the Cousin's situation.

Let me know when AJ throws for 1,000 yards. I know, I know I am being a Richard. I do like his wife though. :yes:
 

Stymietee

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WTF did I just read? KC is not the best QB weve had in 20 years? That's insane. This guy has set countless Redskin passing records last two years with perhaps the worse running game last two years weve had in 20 years. With his number one WR missing 9 games one of those years. The worse defenses weve had in last 20 years. Top 3 in league if not number 1 overall in (in air) passing of 20+ yards. Releases the ball faster than anyone weve had in last 20 years..resulting in lease amount of sacks taken in last 20 years in a two year span from a starter. So please stop with the not the best QB in last 20 years. Those who cant see that... Well, im not sure what to say.

If that's the way you read it, then you've totally missed the context in which it was made.
 

Stymietee

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Sty, good to see you.

Still don't agree about your assessment of Cousin's or McCarron but it is good to see you. I was wondering where you have been.

Agree about your Doug and Bobby comparison. I hope I am wrong but then too I hoped the FO wouldn't screw up the Cousin's situation.

Let me know when AJ throws for 1,000 yards. I know, I know I am being a Richard. I do like his wife though. :yes:

Good to be back with you and the guys here as well. I generally take a break from the madness of the off-season, however, the reading material has been a pretty humorous exercise in group humping Dean. Real proud of the guy for holding fast to what his convictions are against a real onslaught.

Someone asked for a credible replacement if Kirk walks, agree with it or not, he has the pedigree and is guaranteed to leave Cincy in search of a starting gig. Unless they throw a ton of money at him to stay as a backup, or demote/ release Dalton he'll earn his chance to prove himself somewhere. I'm saying, if Kirk is destined to leave, why not him?
 

j_y19

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Good to be back with you and the guys here as well. I generally take a break from the madness of the off-season, however, the reading material has been a pretty humorous exercise in group humping Dean. Real proud of the guy for holding fast to what his convictions are against a real onslaught.

Someone asked for a credible replacement if Kirk walks, agree with it or not, he has the pedigree and is guaranteed to leave Cincy in search of a starting gig. Unless they throw a ton of money at him to stay as a backup, or demote/ release Dalton he'll earn his chance to prove himself somewhere. I'm saying, if Kirk is destined to leave, why not him?
Hey Sty. Welcome back. My first thought is Why not? We are rolling the dice anyway so what difference does it make. But the more I think about it, Macarron is going to get paid by someone, no where near KC level, but is going to make good paycheck. For zero resume. If folks have a problem paying KC, then they should have a real problem paying for McCarron. We might as well roll with Colt until we can draft and develop. I mean, what difference does it really make?
 

gkekoa

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Hey Sty. Welcome back. My first thought is Why not? We are rolling the dice anyway so what difference does it make. But the more I think about it, Macarron is going to get paid by someone, no where near KC level, but is going to make good paycheck. For zero resume. If folks have a problem paying KC, then they should have a real problem paying for McCarron. We might as well roll with Colt until we can draft and develop. I mean, what difference does it really make?

Actually, I would rather go with McCarron for 15 mil than a rookie forced to start.
 

j_y19

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Actually, I would rather go with McCarron for 15 mil than a rookie forced to start.
What I was proposing is just go with Colt until you can draft and develop. Colt is the same roll of the dice as Mccarron but much cheaper. Spend that saved money on really bolstering the defense. We are going to need it.
 

Sportster 72

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Good to be back with you and the guys here as well. I generally take a break from the madness of the off-season, however, the reading material has been a pretty humorous exercise in group humping Dean. Real proud of the guy for holding fast to what his convictions are against a real onslaught.

Someone asked for a credible replacement if Kirk walks, agree with it or not, he has the pedigree and is guaranteed to leave Cincy in search of a starting gig. Unless they throw a ton of money at him to stay as a backup, or demote/ release Dalton he'll earn his chance to prove himself somewhere. I'm saying, if Kirk is destined to leave, why not him?

Correct, the conversation primarily focused around one or two issues and got a bit repetitive. I will be happy to get back to the game of football.

Whether I agree or disagree you came up with a solution which is more than some. If Cousin's is gone after this year I would be okay with giving him a shot.

I think one thing everyone is going to need to wrap their head around is the price for a QB is going way up no mater what unless you have a rookie. I think Colt is only signed through 2018 so he would cost a ton after that. Whatever a ton is in 2018 money.
 

skinsdad62

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when some one trots out AJ mccarron as a proven qb you kind of lose me . we could have had KC at 12 mil and he had more experience then AJ and now we pay 15 mil for a guy who cant beat out dalton the epitome of AVG ? MCgloin , 3rd stinger for his career ? please , and there will be no set back ? dreaming if you plan on it that way . hope for the best but PLAN for the worst , never PLAN for the best

now ANY qb we get from any method i will support . i defended JC , RG3 (when he played ) and KC as well and i will if we start colt , nate , any FA qb , or rookie draft pick i will give them my backing .

but this offseason drama with SM and KC is killing this franchise . now we have a lame duck qb
 

skinsdad62

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oh by the way sty , welcome back brother . and your response to my questions were well thought out and you put yourself on the line with them . most others will not . that is why i respect you and admire you my Friend
 

j_y19

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when some one trots out AJ mccarron as a proven qb you kind of lose me . we could have had KC at 12 mil and he had more experience then AJ and now we pay 15 mil for a guy who cant beat out dalton the epitome of AVG ? MCgloin , 3rd stinger for his career ? please , and there will be no set back ? dreaming if you plan on it that way . hope for the best but PLAN for the worst , never PLAN for the best

now ANY qb we get from any method i will support . i defended JC , RG3 (when he played ) and KC as well and i will if we start colt , nate , any FA qb , or rookie draft pick i will give them my backing .

but this offseason drama with SM and KC is killing this franchise . now we have a lame duck qb
Hopefully we also have a lame duck President/GM.
 

ehb5

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Good to be back with you and the guys here as well. I generally take a break from the madness of the off-season, however, the reading material has been a pretty humorous exercise in group humping Dean. Real proud of the guy for holding fast to what his convictions are against a real onslaught.

Someone asked for a credible replacement if Kirk walks, agree with it or not, he has the pedigree and is guaranteed to leave Cincy in search of a starting gig. Unless they throw a ton of money at him to stay as a backup, or demote/ release Dalton he'll earn his chance to prove himself somewhere. I'm saying, if Kirk is destined to leave, why not him?

First off welcome back.

But to answer why not?

Because we have no reason to believe he's a good nfl qb and we'd have to pay him at least 15 mil I assume. That is a HORRIBLE idea.

Draft a rookie, play colt, play sudfield, do simething almost anything else, just don't give AJ mccarron 15 mil a year for no reason.
 

Stymietee

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First off welcome back.

But to answer why not?

Because we have no reason to believe he's a good nfl qb and we'd have to pay him at least 15 mil I assume. That is a HORRIBLE idea.

Draft a rookie, play colt, play sudfield, do simething almost anything else, just don't give AJ mccarron 15 mil a year for no reason.

A.J McCarron already has a body of work that indicates that he's not only able to function in a Gruden style offense, but function well. The only reason NOT to turn to a guy like that is frankly fear that he is similar to Kirk in many ways. I've done a whole lot of homework on this guy, admittedly by a challenge from others here who insisted upon a name, if Kirk were to walk. I might have missed a posting or two , but I don't believe that anyone else has offered a name besides myself. So let me ask you and anyone else that same question,....when he walks who legitimately replaces him? Forget Colt, Forget Suds, a rookie? OK, but who can we guarantee that won't cost us a bunch to move up to draft him?
 

Stymietee

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Hey Sty. Welcome back. My first thought is Why not? We are rolling the dice anyway so what difference does it make. But the more I think about it, Macarron is going to get paid by someone, no where near KC level, but is going to make good paycheck. For zero resume. If folks have a problem paying KC, then they should have a real problem paying for McCarron. We might as well roll with Colt until we can draft and develop. I mean, what difference does it really make?

Good to be back thanks man! The number one reason being not wanting to take a step back, the team is finally being put together for a real run, Colt can't carry A.J's jock. The number 1 thru 1oo reasons that everyone seems to be against A.J. is because he can't beat out Dalton, right? (haven't seen or read any other one except that) Well, let me remind everyone that there's a certain starting QB, who these same folks apparently forgotten couldn't beat out he who shall remain nameless here.
 

ehb5

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A.J McCarron already has a body of work that indicates that he's not only able to function in a Gruden style offense, but function well. The only reason NOT to turn to a guy like that is frankly fear that he is similar to Kirk in many ways. I've done a whole lot of homework on this guy, admittedly by a challenge from others here who insisted upon a name, if Kirk were to walk. I might have missed a posting or two , but I don't believe that anyone else has offered a name besides myself. So let me ask you and anyone else that same question,....when he walks who legitimately replaces him? Forget Colt, Forget Suds, a rookie? OK, but who can we guarantee that won't cost us a bunch to move up to draft him?

Disagree with all of this tbh.

He has a very small sample size to go off and its really not even very impressive statistically despite being in an excellent situation. His film is unimpressive at best and hes a 26 year old 5th round pick who will cost us a significant chunk of change. That is not the profile of a player likely to worth their contract (or even a good QB).

The reason not to want him is that he could easily be awful while we're paying him a lot of money. His downside isnt just significant - its also pretty likely to happen.

Why forget Colt, Suds, or a rookie? Theyre all better options than McCarron at what he'll cost.
 
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