Game Thread: 9.25 Black Coffee Sweep (6:40p)

[tzill]

1. M Yastrzemski (L) RF
2. H Ramos (R) LF
3. L Wade Jr. (L) 1B
4. M Chapman (R) 3B
5. M Conforto (L) DH
6. P Bailey (S) C
7. T Fitzgerald (R) SS
8. G McCray (L) CF
9. B Wisely (L) 2B

Mason Black
RHP
1-4, 5.88 ERA, 28 SO

 

[calsnowskier]

Interesting little piece of 2024 Giants trivia I just stumbled across…

The top 2 bWAR players on the Giants this year are Chappy and Webb. Who was third?

 

[tzill]

Interesting little piece of 2024 Giants trivia I just stumbled across…

The top 2 bWAR players on the Giants this year are Chappy and Webb. Who was third?

Fitz?
Walker?

 

[Sandisfan]

This game feels like what we are used to this season.

 

[calsnowskier]

Fitz?
Walker?

Fitz is the answer.

he was my 3rd guess (Bailey, Ramos)

 

[tzill]

And the mound fully shat. Too bad.

And now Gallen will deal.

 

[tzill]

The kid ain't ready

Good to know

 

[sf1giantfan]

Giants back to normal.

 

[Stokes1931]

Wait! What?!? The White Sox have won two in a row?!? Oh, it was against the Angels. Figures.

 

[tzill]

Just a reminder that Shohei Ohtani is currently having the 15th best season in Barry Bonds career.

 

[msgkings322]

Just a reminder that Shohei Ohtani is currently having the 15th best season in Barry Bonds career.

Eh, a little better than that...6th or 7th best

Presumably without enhancements (although who can be sure?)

Man though Barry's BB Ref page is crazy. He hit .370 one year and .362 another year LOL, which has little to do with home runs

Barry Bonds Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Barry Bonds. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[calsnowskier]

Eh, a little better than that...6th or 7th best

Presumably without enhancements (although who can be sure?)

Man though Barry's BB Ref page is crazy. He hit .370 one year and .362 another year LOL, which has little to do with home runs

Barry Bonds Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Barry Bonds. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

By both bWAR and OPS+, this would be Barry’s 9th best season.

Barry was a beast. People just get distracted by the new shiny bauble.

Not to say Ohtani isn’t OMG great. He looks like he will be an inner-circle HOFer. Maybe he will go down as the greatest ever.

But he isn’t there yet. At this point, he is still just an annoying gnat flaying around Barry’s head.

Remember, it wasn’t that long ago everyone was saying Trout WS the greatest player ever. That didn’t age very well.

 

[msgkings322]

By both bWAR and OPS+, this would be Barry’s 9th best season.

Barry was a beast. People just get distracted by the new shiny bauble.

Not to say Ohtani isn’t OMG great. He looks like he will be an inner-circle HOFer. Maybe he will go down as the greatest ever.

But he isn’t there yet. At this point, he is still just an annoying gnat flaying around Barry’s head.

Remember, it wasn’t that long ago everyone was saying Trout WS the greatest player ever. That didn’t age very well.

Ohtani likely will never put up the same hitting numbers (although his will be spectacular), Barry probably has the best ever for those with only Ruth in the conversation. It's the ace level pitching that makes Ohtani's case for greatest ever. Will need to produce both ways at a high level a few more years though.

And of course, Barry will always be tainted. I think he is absolutely deserves to be in the HOF, but if we're arguing GOATs you can't ignore it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Ohtani likely will never put up the same hitting numbers (although his will be spectacular), Barry probably has the best ever for those with only Ruth in the conversation. It's the ace level pitching that makes Ohtani's case for greatest ever. Will need to produce both ways at a high level a few more years though.

And of course, Barry will always be tainted. I think he is absolutely deserves to be in the HOF, but if we're arguing GOATs you can't ignore it.

Just look at OPS+.

He dominated in an era where most players (pitchers and hitters alike) were using (and he put his best numbers in the worst park in the history of the game). His elevation above the competition is Ruthian.

 

[msgkings322]

Just look at OPS+.

He dominated in an era where most players (pitchers and hitters alike) were using (and he put his best numbers in the worst park in the history of the game). His elevation above the competition is Ruthian.

Agreed, I mentioned Ruth too

 

[SF11704]

Is Bonds the greatest player to ever play the game? This will be a question for quite a few more decades I would think.
I don't think there will ever be a final answer.
How one defines 'greatest is not an absolute metric. For me personallly (now pushing 80) Bonds was the greatest player I have ever seen . But that is based on purely statistics. Statistically he was a beast. But, for me personally it will always be Willie Mays. My childhood memories are and always will be tied to Mays. For me (as a kid) he embodied what baseball was.
As great as Bonds was he will never get the recognition he deserves. His statistics will always be tainted for what in most cases, is just conjecture. Non Giant fans tend to just ignore what he accomplished and pass it off to enhancenents. Not ever living in SF I can't relate to how he responded to the community at large. But I can tell you that most east coast people viewed him as arrogant, unapproachable and not as good as his statistics implied. They are wrong but it's almost impossible to change thier viewpoint.

 

[msgkings322]

Is Bonds the greatest player to ever play the game? This will be a question for quite a few more decades I would think.
I don't think there will ever be a final answer.
How one defines 'greatest is not an absolute metric. For me personallly (now pushing 80) Bonds was the greatest player I have ever seen . But that is based on purely statistics. Statistically he was a beast. But, for me personally it will always be Willie Mays. My childhood memories are and always will be tied to Mays. For me (as a kid) he embodied what baseball was.
As great as Bonds was he will never get the recognition he deserves. His statistics will always be tainted for what in most cases, is just conjecture. Non Giant fans tend to just ignore what he accomplished and pass it off to enhancenents. Not ever living in SF I can't relate to how he responded to the community at large. But I can tell you that most east coast people viewed him as arrogant, unapproachable and not as good as his statistics implied. They are wrong but it's almost impossible to change thier viewpoint.

It's not "conjecture" that he roided up, he obviously did. The argument (that cal said well above) is that a majority of players were doing it then so why should he be downgraded for it...he was still head and shoulders above everyone else roiding up (including pitchers).

 

[calsnowskier]

Is Bonds the greatest player to ever play the game? This will be a question for quite a few more decades I would think.
I don't think there will ever be a final answer.
How one defines 'greatest is not an absolute metric. For me personallly (now pushing 80) Bonds was the greatest player I have ever seen . But that is based on purely statistics. Statistically he was a beast. But, for me personally it will always be Willie Mays. My childhood memories are and always will be tied to Mays. For me (as a kid) he embodied what baseball was.
As great as Bonds was he will never get the recognition he deserves. His statistics will always be tainted for what in most cases, is just conjecture. Non Giant fans tend to just ignore what he accomplished and pass it off to enhancenents. Not ever living in SF I can't relate to how he responded to the community at large. But I can tell you that most east coast people viewed him as arrogant, unapproachable and not as good as his statistics implied. They are wrong but it's almost impossible to change thier viewpoint.

I think it is a 3 person race between Bonds, Mays and Ruth. And Ruth is only in the discussion because he was playing chess when the rest of the league was still playing checkers. But Bonds and Mays were both playing go when everyone was playing go.

There are a few other players who at least belong on the short list (Williams, Henderson, Gibson, Oh, Cobb, etc), but really, BB/WM/Babe are the real Mt Rushmore.

 

[tzill]

Eh, a little better than that...6th or 7th best

Presumably without enhancements (although who can be sure?)

Man though Barry's BB Ref page is crazy. He hit .370 one year and .362 another year LOL, which has little to do with home runs

Barry Bonds Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Barry Bonds. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

If you go by OPS+, I think it's 15th

 

[calsnowskier]

If you go by OPS+, I think it's 15th

9th