27-57-87 MLB Draft Chat

[Ritzarmy]

Welcome back nos

 

[steveringo]

Everyone who do you have as the top 5 pitchers of all time?

1. Walter Johnson
2. Roger Clemens
3. Lefty Grove
4. Pedro Martinez
5. (another red sox pitcher)

 

[Nosferatu]

Top 5 err 6

Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Sandy Koufax
Steve Carlton
Tom Seaver

 

[Nosferatu]

A top 5 pitchers list without Cy Young is like a top 5 batters list without Babe Ruth.

 

[broncosmitty]

Honest List:

Walter Johnson
Roger Clemens
Lefty Grove
Tom Seaver
Randy Johnson (I could name 5 other guys in that spot that Id feel about as comfortable with)

No idea what to do with Cy Young tbh. He's like a myth as much as he is a pitcher in my mind.

 

[Nosferatu]

Welcome back nos

Thanks buddy!!!

 

[Ritzarmy]

Steve is OTC and has been pm'd

 

[Nosferatu]

I'm off to a meeting see y'all in about an hour. I think Steve is still OTC...

 

[UK Cowboy]

A top 5 pitchers list without Cy Young is like a top 5 batters list without Babe Ruth.

I don't see Young like Babe. I think he's top 10 for sure, could argue top 5, but I think Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson were better

Both guys had a full half run better era, 2.17 WJ, 2.13 CM 2.63 CY
Both had much higher K's per 9 innings.
Both had more shutouts despite pitching fewer games

All 3 were eligible for the 1st group of Hall of Famers, the " first 5" in 1936, Johnson and Mathewson were elected, Young was 2nd ballot

Young was awesome, but Babe was the undisputed GOAT

 

[broncosmitty]

First guy elected wasnt Ruth.


It was Cobb.

 

[UK Cowboy]

First guy elected wasnt Ruth.


It was Cobb.

Yeah, but.......Ruth retired in 35 LOL, first 5 elected in 36. Cobb was in the first 5 with Mathewson and Johnson. If Ruth's career had ended in 30, he'd have been there too

 

[broncosmitty]

Cobb got more votes than anyone.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Cobb got more votes than anyone.

Cobb is like Cy Young to me, awesome player, but no way the best ever. Saying Cobb was better than Ruth is like saying Pete Rose was better than Barry Bonds

 

[UK Cowboy]

Steve is up

 

[broncosmitty]

Cobb is like Cy Young to me, awesome player, but no way the best ever. Saying Cobb was better than Ruth is like saying Pete Rose was better than Barry Bonds

Im not saying anything about anyone being better.

Im saying Ty Cobb received more HoF votes than Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Christy Matthewson and Walter Johnson. Those five were the first class, in that order. Not my ranking.

To discount Young because he's second class, you must discount Babe because he's behind Cobb.

The HoF shouldn't be used to determine greatness or levels of greatness anyway. Just fame. (It's odd that we think of Ruth as generally loved and Cobb as hated, yet he was voted in first.)

 

[UK Cowboy]

Im not saying anything about anyone being better.

Im saying Ty Cobb received more HoF votes than Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Christy Matthewson and Walter Johnson. Those five were the first class, in that order. Not my ranking.

To discount Young because he's second class, you must discount Babe because he's behind Cobb.

The HoF shouldn't be used to determine greatness or levels of greatness anyway. Just fame. (It's odd that we think of Ruth as generally loved and Cobb as hated, yet he was voted in first.)

I didn't go through the 5 because Hornsby could still be picked, but it's hard to argue any of them. It probably sounds like I'm bashing Young, but saying he is top 5-10 pitcher ever isn't exactly an insult lol. That's the great thing about baseball, it's the only sport where you can legitimately argue players from 100 years ago being as good as players of today

 

[Ritzarmy]

I didn't go through the 5 because Hornsby could still be picked, but it's hard to argue any of them. It probably sounds like I'm bashing Young, but saying he is top 5-10 pitcher ever isn't exactly an insult lol. That's the great thing about baseball, it's the only sport where you can legitimately argue players from 100 years ago being as good as players of today

Didn't mean to start drama with my asking to rank players. I was curious to see what guys opinions were. Nos proposed a trade to me and this promoted me to question my own ranking. Now CY Young is no question a outstanding pitcher. Nos is a outstanding mod. Now just because they are below Me in rankings doesn't mean they aren't great

 

[UK Cowboy]

500 is up and PM'd

 

[UK Cowboy]

Didn't mean to start drama with my asking to rank players. I was curious to see what guys opinions were. Nos proposed a trade to me and this promoted me to question my own ranking. Now CY Young is no question a outstanding pitcher. Nos is a outstanding mod. Now just because they are below Me in rankings doesn't mean they aren't great

I don't think its drama, everyone's opinion is valid. If the pitching matchup were Young vs Kershaw or Mathewson vs Maddux or Clemens vs Koufax, the winners would be......the teams with the better hitters lol

 

[broncosmitty]

I didn't go through the 5 because Hornsby could still be picked, but it's hard to argue any of them. It probably sounds like I'm bashing Young, but saying he is top 5-10 pitcher ever isn't exactly an insult lol. That's the great thing about baseball, it's the only sport where you can legitimately argue players from 100 years ago being as good as players of today

Hornsby was the 9th pick of the draft. And IMO, one of the 4 most complete players in history. (Cobb, Bonds, Hornsby and Mays, in no particular order.)

I agree with you on the comparison from era to era in baseball being more pure than any other sport. I just don't know what to do with Young on a list. The guy had a 50 decision season. Had more CGs than many greats even started. Just don't know what to do with him when it comes to lists.