22 plays were reversed so far today, most since at least 2000

[ChrisPozz]

With one more quarter to go for today.

Aaron Schatz:

Apropos of nothing: 22 plays reversed today (so far), most since at least 2000. Previous high was 16.

 

[shouldakepowens]

How long will the league let this go on? Yea fans will keep watching but at what point is enough enough ?

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

How long will the league let this go on? Yea fans will keep watching but at what point is enough enough ?

Reading the comments on the ESPN.com story on this game, probably at least 50% are ripping the refs......its an official embarrassment, and I can't imagine the NFL thought it would go this poorly. See how they react.....I imagine there have to at least be *some* owners that care enough about quality product on the field to demand this stops.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

The calls are pretty bad, especially so many PI calls. They are way too inconsistent with those as well. But the worst part to me is the flow of the game. Guys are just standing around waiting for them to make up their minds and it really takes a team out of rhythm.

Just out of curiosity.... is it most guys goals to work their way up to the NFL? Or do guys like to be lifers in college? Because wouldn't it be self serving for the replacement refs to shit the bed during their time there? To give the real guys more leverage, making a better deal that would benefit them if they eventually make it to that level? Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but just something I thought about.

 

[threelittleturds]

2 of those replays never should have happened.

I want an asterisk for this record!!!! Harbaugh got two replays in after he used up all of his timeouts.

 

[imac_21]

We need to direct the anger at the right people. Don't be mad at the replacements refs. It's not their fault they're in over their heads.

Be angry with the NFL and the NFLRA for dragging this out and making a travesty of the game.

And yes, be mad at both sides. Both are unreasonable.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Both are unreasonable.

From what I understand, and given my perspective, I don't think I can say the refs are being unreasonable. The NFL is trying to impose on them - change their retirement benefits, assert some control over crews - without giving an equitable amount in return.

Now this week the refs said OK, all new officials will work under the new retirement plan, and the league says no, everyone has to go to the lesser benefits. This is the NFL being heavy-handed, and the refs not being willing to give so much. Retirement benefits are serious business. Hard to say its unreasonable, even if you disagree with the details.

The NFL is doing what Corporate America likes to do - reduce benefits - but this is a league that has nothing resembling an economic need to do so. No doubt certain companies have had a problem with excessive retirement liabilities in recent years, but we are not talking about the UAW with 10,000s of employees and their families dragging an automaker down......this is refs numbering in the 100s, working for a vastly wealthy organization. Using the excuses and problems other companies have had to justify a relatively paltry money grab. Pure greed in my book.

 

[imac_21]

From what I understand, and given my perspective, I don't think I can say the refs are being unreasonable. The NFL is trying to impose on them - change their retirement benefits, assert some control over crews - without giving an equitable amount in return.

Now this week the refs said OK, all new officials will work under the new retirement plan, and the league says no, everyone has to go to the lesser benefits. This is the NFL being heavy-handed, and the refs not being willing to give so much. Retirement benefits are serious business. Hard to say its unreasonable, even if you disagree with the details.

The NFL is doing what Corporate America likes to do - reduce benefits - but this is a league that has nothing resembling an economic need to do so. No doubt certain companies have had a problem with excessive retirement liabilities in recent years, but we are not talking about the UAW with 10,000s of employees and their families dragging an automaker down......this is refs numbering in the 100s, working for a vastly wealthy organization. Using the excuses and problems other companies have had to justify a relatively paltry money grab. Pure greed in my book.

From what I understand every union in the NFL (excluding the NFLPA) that has had its contract come up recently has gone away from the pension. The refs - part time employees - are insisting on sticking with it.

There is a report today that they have now said they want to be paid for games that happened while they were lockout. That is beyond unreasonable.

Why should part time employees have a better benefits package than full time league employees?

Now, the NFL is being ridiculous as well, but let's not paint the refs as unwilling participants in this.

 

[Bemular]

From what I understand, and given my perspective, I don't think I can say the refs are being unreasonable. The NFL is trying to impose on them - change their retirement benefits, assert some control over crews - without giving an equitable amount in return.

Now this week the refs said OK, all new officials will work under the new retirement plan, and the league says no, everyone has to go to the lesser benefits. This is the NFL being heavy-handed, and the refs not being willing to give so much. Retirement benefits are serious business. Hard to say its unreasonable, even if you disagree with the details.

The NFL is doing what Corporate America likes to do - reduce benefits - but this is a league that has nothing resembling an economic need to do so. No doubt certain companies have had a problem with excessive retirement liabilities in recent years, but we are not talking about the UAW with 10,000s of employees and their families dragging an automaker down......this is refs numbering in the 100s, working for a vastly wealthy organization. Using the excuses and problems other companies have had to justify a relatively paltry money grab. Pure greed in my book.

I don't know nearly enough to voice an informed opinion; but, after observing the American corporate theatre of the absurd for the past 30+ years - I tend to wake-up on this side of the equation as well.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Meanwhile, the NFL is concerned about whether Tarell Brown is wearing red or white undergarment.

 

[Bemular]

From what I understand every union in the NFL (excluding the NFLPA) that has had its contract come up recently has gone away from the pension. The refs - part time employees - are insisting on sticking with it.

There is a report today that they have now said they want to be paid for games that happened while they were lockout. That is beyond unreasonable.

Why should part time employees have a better benefits package than full time league employees?

Now, the NFL is being ridiculous as well, but let's not paint the refs as unwilling participants in this.

I would be interested to know the reasons why the refs feel they deserve to keep their pensions.

As for wanting to be paid for this time away from work - I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand I have no problem with this despite the obvious leverage it provides the refs, after-all, this dispute is a lockout, not a strike.

On the other hand, the owners are not obligated to pay anyone anything. I probably side with the owners on this, but I can see the refs point.

The question as to why part-time employees have better benefits than full time employees is a bit mis-leading. I mean hell, even the players are essentially part-time.

The better question is, "should" the refs have better benefits than other employees. Are there valid reasons for their asking for these benefits and what exactly are these benefits?

 

[threelittleturds]

The interesting thing about the pensions issue is that, the NFL reduced pensions for everyone... not just the officials.

So the officials have nothing to stand on there. It isn't just them, every NFL employee was cut back on pensions.

 

[oaknightshockey1]

I would be interested to know the reasons why the refs feel they deserve to keep their pensions.

As for wanting to be paid for this time away from work - I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand I have no problem with this despite the obvious leverage it provides the refs, after-all, this dispute is a lockout, not a strike.

On the other hand, the owners are not obligated to pay anyone anything. I probably side with the owners on this, but I can see the refs point.

The question as to why part-time employees have better benefits than full time employees is a bit mis-leading. I mean hell, even the players are essentially part-time.

The better question is, "should" the refs have better benefits than other employees. Are there valid reasons for their asking for these benefits and what exactly are these benefits?

i experienced this from the opposite side. my mom was working part time at a major company. she was asked to go full time and accepted. along with more pay, we got much better insurance, which (thank God) we have needed since she was promoted. if she had declined, my family would be fucked.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

It is not like the NFL loses money every year like the NBA, and I KNOW the refs aren't the costs that break the bank with whatever is in the NFLRA CBA rules.

The NFL wasnt/isn't monetarily struggling before any of the lockouts (except for revenue sharing to teams that have no interest in having a watchable product *coughJaxcough*), beyond the need to stop insane rookie contracts, work on safety issues / curtailing the ever increasing number of off season padded practices (or "Optional" workouts that weren't optional at all), and issues with pensions for older generations of players. I don't understand why the owners can't be happy making millions in profits every year. The Owners worked with the players because they HAD to, but this shit with the refs is EMBARRASSING for the league, and they don't even seem to care (as they count their money).

Once big name owners with good franchises have their teams screwed over repeatedly by shitty replacement ref calls, maybe some real movement will happen with the negotiations.

Kraft, Rooney, etc..... hell hath no fury like a Kraft scorned.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Meanwhile, the NFL is concerned about whether Tarell Brown is wearing red or white undergarment.

Ha... that was some bullshit. God forbid you want to wear your team color shirt.

 

[CalamityX11]

Meanwhile, the NFL is concerned about whether Tarell Brown is wearing red or white undergarment.

 

[MarkOU]

I got no pity for people who make 6 figures for workin 3 hour days, 17 days a year.

Fuck the refs and their demands. Pay me $50,000 and I'll be your ref.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

From what I understand every union in the NFL (excluding the NFLPA) that has had its contract come up recently has gone away from the pension. The refs - part time employees - are insisting on sticking with it.

But this is a negotiation - if the NFL wants to change this type of condition, it should be giving back more in some other area. But the NFL is just trying to take without giving back, because it thinks it has the upper hand. This isn't about fairness.

The point that the NFL has been able to impose this condition on other unions or employees shouldn't matter. If anything, that just shows exactly how motivated to break their employees the league seems to be. There is absolutely zero economic reason for the NFL to need to switch this pension plan but to save money and screw the refs - and yes, its "screwed", because these are benefits the refs had negotiated and earned - now its almost as if the NFL is trying to roll back their previous negotiations and retroactively withdraw perks that had been earned then.

The whole "part-time" employees thing is a non-starter with me. Most people involved in the NFL are "part-time" if you wish to frame it negatively that way, not many are clocking in for a regular 9-5 shift, but all work much longer hours than that to prepare. Nevertheless, these guys are the elite of their profession who worked their way up to where they are, and as we are seeing with these bum scabs the real refs' skill and professionalism really can't be overstated.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Meanwhile, the NFL is concerned about whether Tarell Brown is wearing red or white undergarment.

the colors distracts the refs...

 

[NinerSickness]

Everyone in the private sector is going away from pensions. They're one of the most fiscally irresponsible ideas ever contrived. A lot of companies have filed bankrupcy because there was no way they could fulfill the pension promises they made (American Airlines did if I'm not mistaken; I think Hostess did; a bunch of others... even the city of Stockton, CA filed for bankruptcy a few months ago because of that same reason; Vallejo did a while back too). Nobody in their right mind is going to offer pensions any more. If the ref's insist of 'em then they're never work again.