• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

2021 NFL Draft Discussion thread

Mingo

Well-Known Member
10,333
1,927
173
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
QB's especially young ones will always hold value. Sam Bradford got a 1st round pick late in the offseason even though he had been average at best in his career. Darnold, who played maybe worst than Lock, just got huge return.

You will always find a team willing to give something up for him. Let's say the Steelers miss out on all of their QB targets to replace Big Ben. They could trade a 3rd round pick and have Lock sit a year then see what he is the final year of his deal. The great thing with Lock is even if he doesn't play he is a quality back up and cheap. That is still worth something to NFL teams.

For me personally I don't think the Broncos are just trying to push Lock. People I've talked to say their love of a few of these QB's is real and if given the opportunity they will trade up. They have competition and Paton has shown he is not going to go crazy in any trade so we shall see. The nice thing for the Broncos is their competition all are teams pick 15 or later and most teams in the top-5 don't like the trade back that far.
The question is not whether you could dump Lock on the market - but why do it now - instead of months ago? The path of drafting a QB now and trading Lock at the same time or later -- is incoherent as a strategy and a waste or resources. If Lock wasn't going to make it as the Broncos QB - and the front office knew that months ago - that was the time to trade lock for maximum resources. Trading lock as you maneuver to draft a new rookie QB - is a waste and is not consistent with the free agent signings of veteran players that took place - as there has to be some idea that the new QB will need to learn something on the job.
 

CEH

Well-Known Member
4,932
867
113
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The question is not whether you could dump Lock on the market - but why do it now - instead of months ago? The path of drafting a QB now and trading Lock at the same time or later -- is incoherent as a strategy and a waste or resources. If Lock wasn't going to make it as the Broncos QB - and the front office knew that months ago - that was the time to trade lock for maximum resources. Trading lock as you maneuver to draft a new rookie QB - is a waste and is not consistent with the free agent signings of veteran players that took place - as there has to be some idea that the new QB will need to learn something on the job.
I heard he had a trade in place for Lock and after sleeping on it decided against it. Work out well for VJ.
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
25,674
3,785
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The question is not whether you could dump Lock on the market - but why do it now - instead of months ago? The path of drafting a QB now and trading Lock at the same time or later -- is incoherent as a strategy and a waste or resources. If Lock wasn't going to make it as the Broncos QB - and the front office knew that months ago - that was the time to trade lock for maximum resources. Trading lock as you maneuver to draft a new rookie QB - is a waste and is not consistent with the free agent signings of veteran players that took place - as there has to be some idea that the new QB will need to learn something on the job.

There are a few reasons you wait to trade him.

1) Broncos have shown if they do not get a deal done for a clear upgrade over Lock then they are content to go into the season with Lock. It is one of those they like Lock, but not like they are ready to make that long-term commitment to him.

2) Trading him early shows teams then you are desperate for a QB. Makes it where they can take whatever they want from you because you have no leverage in the negotiations.

3) The reason they did not do this months ago is because Paton was still learning the organization as a whole and watching the film on players. Not having a Combine and Pro Days not being until the end of March made it where making a decision on the QB situation a bit impossible unless it was through a trade for a veteran QB. Paton early on had to focus on Free Agency and getting his own guys locked down like Simmons and Harris.

4) The Watson situation also plays into this. The Broncos were going to be one of the top-2 teams fighting for his services if the Texans ever decided to part ways with him. They figured Lock would be a part of that deal if they ever made that trade. Well showing patience in that situation has shown to become a big problem which is why you are seeing teams like the 49ers and Panthers in the last week or so decide to go in a different direction. Are you going to fault them for waiting so long as well?

This is just part of how this whole thing works. Sometimes yes a team will wait too long and other times they will sell at the highest price possible. You take a risk either way, but to me making sure they do not lose their leverage when talking to teams like the Falcons and Bengals is a big selling point in why you hold onto Lock.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
10,333
1,927
173
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
There are a few reasons you wait to trade him.

1) Broncos have shown if they do not get a deal done for a clear upgrade over Lock then they are content to go into the season with Lock. It is one of those they like Lock, but not like they are ready to make that long-term commitment to him.

2) Trading him early shows teams then you are desperate for a QB. Makes it where they can take whatever they want from you because you have no leverage in the negotiations.

3) The reason they did not do this months ago is because Paton was still learning the organization as a whole and watching the film on players. Not having a Combine and Pro Days not being until the end of March made it where making a decision on the QB situation a bit impossible unless it was through a trade for a veteran QB. Paton early on had to focus on Free Agency and getting his own guys locked down like Simmons and Harris.

4) The Watson situation also plays into this. The Broncos were going to be one of the top-2 teams fighting for his services if the Texans ever decided to part ways with him. They figured Lock would be a part of that deal if they ever made that trade. Well showing patience in that situation has shown to become a big problem which is why you are seeing teams like the 49ers and Panthers in the last week or so decide to go in a different direction. Are you going to fault them for waiting so long as well?

This is just part of how this whole thing works. Sometimes yes a team will wait too long and other times they will sell at the highest price possible. You take a risk either way, but to me making sure they do not lose their leverage when talking to teams like the Falcons and Bengals is a big selling point in why you hold onto Lock.
I was a front runner for Watson, but now - no thanks.

Here's where we disagree: You have to go all in or all out on your QB. Either you decide Lock is the guy, or you decide he is not. If all you are doing is looking to slightly improve at the Qb position from one guy to the next - that is just moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic.

Trevor Lawrence is the only clear improvement in the draft over Lock - so that ship has sailed the rest is just smoke and mirrors.
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
25,674
3,785
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I was a front runner for Watson, but now - no thanks.

Here's where we disagree: You have to go all in or all out on your QB. Either you decide Lock is the guy, or you decide he is not. If all you are doing is looking to slightly improve at the Qb position from one guy to the next - that is just moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic.

Trevor Lawrence is the only clear improvement in the draft over Lock - so that ship has sailed the rest is just smoke and mirrors.

I guess I would disagree with two things here...

1) You can still go all-in on your QB but be smart about it. Going into the draft with Jeff Driskel as the top option makes you look very very desperate. Keeping Lock at least makes those teams think you won't give into every demand. So instead of having to trade 3 1st round picks and more to get your guy maybe it is #9 overall, Jeudy, and a 3rd in 2022.

2) I'm a bigger fan of this QB class than you. I have 4 guys that I really like and 2 of those that I would say I absolutely love. Lawrence and Fields are the top of the class for me and I don't think the separation between those two is as much as people believe. I do like Lance and Wilson as well, but do have some hesitation for different reasons on both. Lance just with his youth and only one year of starting makes me nervous about his ability to handle moving up to the NFL and being an impact player early in his career. Wilson I have some concerns with his injuries and that this last year was a bit more of a fluke with Covid kind of keeping some of the tougher competition off the schedule for him.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
10,333
1,927
173
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I guess I would disagree with two things here...

1) You can still go all-in on your QB but be smart about it. Going into the draft with Jeff Driskel as the top option makes you look very very desperate. Keeping Lock at least makes those teams think you won't give into every demand. So instead of having to trade 3 1st round picks and more to get your guy maybe it is #9 overall, Jeudy, and a 3rd in 2022.

2) I'm a bigger fan of this QB class than you. I have 4 guys that I really like and 2 of those that I would say I absolutely love. Lawrence and Fields are the top of the class for me and I don't think the separation between those two is as much as people believe. I do like Lance and Wilson as well, but do have some hesitation for different reasons on both. Lance just with his youth and only one year of starting makes me nervous about his ability to handle moving up to the NFL and being an impact player early in his career. Wilson I have some concerns with his injuries and that this last year was a bit more of a fluke with Covid kind of keeping some of the tougher competition off the schedule for him.
LOL - I know you are a bigger fan of the QBs in this class than I am. I think this goes for almost every year I've known you.

I think Teddy Bridgewater is a available - and Paton has already acquired him once.
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
25,674
3,785
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
LOL - I know you are a bigger fan of the QBs in this class than I am. I think this goes for almost every year I've known you.

I think Teddy Bridgewater is a available - and Paton has already acquired him once.

I didn't like the 2019 class. It was Kyler Murray and a bunch of guys that I didn't mind but didn't think they were the type to get us over the top. Loved the 2018 class. 2017 I didn't scout a whole lot because we had Lynch and I didn't figure the Broncos were going away from him. 2016 I liked Wentz but knew there was no chance to get him and I will admit I liked Lynch a lot. The tools were all there, but obviously the mind and work ethic for the game were lacking.
 

CEH

Well-Known Member
4,932
867
113
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If that’s the case then make the damn deal George .
Feels like he’s just calling about everyone but if he really wanted a QB #3 was the place to be. SF gave Mia a take it or leave it deal just like on draft day.
Deals off the table after the call
kinda funny
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
25,674
3,785
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If that’s the case then make the damn deal George .
Feels like he’s just calling about everyone but if he really wanted a QB #3 was the place to be. SF gave Mia a take it or leave it deal just like on draft day.
Deals off the table after the call
kinda funny

The problem right now is the Falcons are waiting to see what the 49ers are going to do. The 49ers have been linked to Fields, Lance, and Jones by different people. Falcons really really like Lance, but if the 49ers take him then that might be the point they decide it is worth trading back.

For the Broncos it sounds like if the 49ers go Fields then Broncos are out and will be looking to trade back.
 

Draft Crazy

Mingo is my Hero!
20,348
3,234
293
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Location
Iowa City, IA
Hoopla Cash
$ 56,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Fun exercise for you all! ;)

We know we aren't going to get Lawrence or Wilson and we know the 3rd player taken is going to be a QB but we aren't certain who despite the rumors.

Rank the order of QB you would like Denver to get after Lawrence and Wilson if that was the route we went. For me, I remain firm.

1. Justin Fields
2. Trey Lance
3. Mac Jones

Fields had been my #2 overall prospect all season... I think the Northwestern game really gave some people bad vibes but to me he rebounded well after that game. Funny what one game can do to hurt or help your stock late in the season. We have seen this happen a lot. I think the Fields "slight fall" is pretty overrated in the draft world.

Lance- I see a lot of upside but also some more bust potential there... Makes me excited and nervous at the same time.

Mac Jones to me will be a good QB in the NFL, but I don't know that I see him being a "great", QB in the NFL.... I think he is another Kirk Cousins like NFL QB. I liked what I saw out of him this year but pretty easy throwing the ball in that offense. He proved he can play in the NFL, but to me I am not sold that he has what it takes to be great in the NFL... I think Mac will be a starter in the NFL for a long time but perhaps not a franchise changer. He probably actually fits with SF right now as if they stay healthy they are in win now mode, but I think anytime you pick that high no matter what type of situation you are in you have to go with the most talented QB and IMO I feel most comfortable going with Fields, I like Lance's upside a lot more then Jones. I like Jones as a guy who I don't see being a bad QB but he may be another Kirk Cousins to me.

I looked back to my 2018 QB rankings and here is how I had them ranked.

1. Josh Allen
2. Josh Rosen (oooops)
3. Sam Darnold
4. Lamar Jackson
5. Baker Mayfield (obviously knew Mayfield was going higher, but wasn't a big fan)
6. Mason Rudlolph (You probably remember LGM and I being very high on Rudolph, not sure he will ever be a starter though looking at it now)
7. Luke Falk
8. Kyle Lauletta
9. Mike White
10. Tanner Lee


Gets pretty ugly here after the top few but then again that is pretty expected at the QB position in the draft.

On a side note- I don't get the love for Stanford QB Davis Mills this year... He is such a project and I think he is leap years away from being ready to start in the NFL. Right now he is jockying for QB stock with Kellen Mond and Kyle Trask. I just don't see it with him at all. He did come on this year, but between injuries and having a lot of work to go in my opinion I just don't get the love for him going on right now.
Reminds me of when suddenly guys like Ryan Nassib, Tom Savage and Nathan Peterman starting getting draft love after never really standing out in college. I get it... Everyone is looking for the next Tom Brady. ;)
 

Draft Crazy

Mingo is my Hero!
20,348
3,234
293
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Location
Iowa City, IA
Hoopla Cash
$ 56,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I was really torn in a mock draft I am in right now between two players... Kentucky ILB Jamin Davis and Central Florida S Richie Grant ( I love my ballhawks) I gave Springer a vote and he went with Davis and I was slightly leaning Davis in terms of value. Although I think Grant could sneak into round 1, but probably more likely early round 2.... If Davis turns out great... It was all me!! If he turns out a bust looking back at this in a few years.... I can blame Springer!



I was also telling Springer tonight.... If we do end up moving down in Round 1. I would keep an eye on Tulsa LB Zaven Collins. He comes off to me as a very safe pick to be a solid NFL player for years to come. He isn't as flashy as some of the top guys, but he gets from Point A to B quickly and has a wonderful football IQ... Passionate ILB just like Jamain Davis in which I think is exactly what Fangio is looking for... I like our two ILB's right now. Both have contracts coming up and I think Fangio is REALLY looking for that dog.. Alexander Johnson has some of that dog in him and if Jewell plays as well next year as he did last year while not an incredible player, but a solid player, unlikely both will be coming back to Denver... Jewell doesn't make the plays at the line you may look for in that "DOG" of a LB, but he is pretty dependable in run support and doesn't miss his assignments... Will be interesting what we do this year at ILB in the draft. Nick Bolton plays with the fire I remember seeing in Al Wilson but speed is a concern. ILB will be interesting for us in this draft, if we go after it or let it sit... Pretty deep ILB draft...

I think the most exciting thing about this years draft for us is that it doesn't feel like we have 15 holes to fill... I am keeping an open mind this draft as I usually do with any draft... But it feels less stressful when you are pretty much open to whatever... I guess it is a good sign that our team is on the right track.... But then again we are picking 9th soooooooooooo... How confident should I really be? ;)
 

fightinredantz

Well-Known Member
3,031
714
113
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
This has been an interesting debate on the QB. I have some thoughts.

I don’t think Paton is out on Lock but I don’t think he is ready to extend him. He has said that they are in a good position because they have a QB. That is not a strong enforcement but it is not an indictment either. If Paton came out and said Drew Lock is our guy and we look forward to him being here for a long time. Everyone should be scratching their head because Lock had not consistently performed at that kind of level. It would be equally puzzling if he came out and said Lock is the worst starting QB in the NFL as he has shown some flashes of good play. I think Lock has shown enough to get a chance to show improvement to potentially be the guy if there is not a guy they absolutely love that they feel will be a top QB.

Personally Fields and Lance are not it for me. If Wilson somehow fell into range I would be interested. I feel like Lock can be a better QB the Mac Jones and if I am going to draft a QB in the top 10 I want to feel like he is going to be very good and better then I already have.

Trading up to 4 I think is going to be tough. I heard Atlanta is a QB or Pitts. We may have to over pay to convince them to trade down.

What vet QB do you want to push Lock if we do not draft a guy in the first round? Bridgewater? Foles? Minshew? I think Minshew has the most upside, lowest compensation, and the only QB on a rookie deal.

If the Broncos trade up in the first round Lock maybe part of another trade at some point in the draft. We probably still need to get a vet QB as you don’t want to hand the starting job to a rookie, he needs to earn it. If that is the case then I probably like Foles best.
 

fightinredantz

Well-Known Member
3,031
714
113
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I was really torn in a mock draft I am in right now between two players... Kentucky ILB Jamin Davis and Central Florida S Richie Grant ( I love my ballhawks) I gave Springer a vote and he went with Davis and I was slightly leaning Davis in terms of value. Although I think Grant could sneak into round 1, but probably more likely early round 2.... If Davis turns out great... It was all me!! If he turns out a bust looking back at this in a few years.... I can blame Springer!



I was also telling Springer tonight.... If we do end up moving down in Round 1. I would keep an eye on Tulsa LB Zaven Collins. He comes off to me as a very safe pick to be a solid NFL player for years to come. He isn't as flashy as some of the top guys, but he gets from Point A to B quickly and has a wonderful football IQ... Passionate ILB just like Jamain Davis in which I think is exactly what Fangio is looking for... I like our two ILB's right now. Both have contracts coming up and I think Fangio is REALLY looking for that dog.. Alexander Johnson has some of that dog in him and if Jewell plays as well next year as he did last year while not an incredible player, but a solid player, unlikely both will be coming back to Denver... Jewell doesn't make the plays at the line you may look for in that "DOG" of a LB, but he is pretty dependable in run support and doesn't miss his assignments... Will be interesting what we do this year at ILB in the draft. Nick Bolton plays with the fire I remember seeing in Al Wilson but speed is a concern. ILB will be interesting for us in this draft, if we go after it or let it sit... Pretty deep ILB draft...

I think the most exciting thing about this years draft for us is that it doesn't feel like we have 15 holes to fill... I am keeping an open mind this draft as I usually do with any draft... But it feels less stressful when you are pretty much open to whatever... I guess it is a good sign that our team is on the right track.... But then again we are picking 9th soooooooooooo... How confident should I really be? ;)
Both players are of interest to me, but I might go with Grant as Jackson is unlikely to be back and having a playmaker back there could make a bigger impact then ILB. A really good coverage ILB could be huge given the TEs in the division. I am not sure there is a wrong answer but which one is best? That is tough.
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
25,674
3,785
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So here is how I have the QB's ranked. I'm actually surprised DC that you and I have them ranked the same. I do wonder where you have Wilson actually ranked since you said that Fields has been your #2 for a long time.

1) Fields
2) Lance
3) Jones

I really have loved Fields since he was a Senior in high school. I think he is intelligent, hard working, has a good not great arm, and is athletic as they come. Throw in his ability to escape pressure and keep his eyes down the field is something that will translate really well to the NFL.

There are two things that bother me about his game. There are times he tries to do too much and it leads to a couple of really bad decisions/throws when off platform. The other is the fumbles. This again comes down to him trying to do too much, but he has to learn to better protect the football and learn there are plays just to fight for another day.

Accuracy wise though he to me is the most accurate QB of this group. He finished 2nd in college football this past season with an adjusted completion % of 80.8. He does well to elevate the players around him and even his coaches talked about how he was the one that kept motivating even them to keep grinding when the season wasn't a for sure thing.

2) Trey Lance

So much to like about his game and his huge upside. Wouldn't shock me to see him become the best QB of this draft and the one everyone is saying "How did people not recognize his talent and take him #1 overall?" The kid has everything tools wise you are looking for. Kind of like Josh Allen when he came out but a lot more developed arm than Allen. I've also heard the kid is smart as a whip and again hard worker that was even willing to make cutups for his receivers to show them what they should do against certain defensive looks.

3) Mac Jones. I think DC said it best in that the biggest issue with Jones is his ceiling seems to be the lowest of the top guys. If he goes to the 49ers it would not shock me to see him though win Rookie of the Year. Any QB would be pretty lucky to go work in Shanahan's system that helps create open receivers and eliminate some of the thinking needed to function.
 

Draft Crazy

Mingo is my Hero!
20,348
3,234
293
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Location
Iowa City, IA
Hoopla Cash
$ 56,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Both players are of interest to me, but I might go with Grant as Jackson is unlikely to be back and having a playmaker back there could make a bigger impact then ILB. A really good coverage ILB could be huge given the TEs in the division. I am not sure there is a wrong answer but which one is best? That is tough.

Exactly how I felt. The stress of mock drafts. ;)
 

Orange Crush77

Well-Known Member
3,371
734
113
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Lance
Fields
Jones
For me, it’s about potential. Fields is probably a safer pick overall, but I can see Lance”s talent transcend into greatness
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
10,333
1,927
173
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
And still I gazed and still my wonder grew - how even one shinny quarterback could hold all the hope you had.
 
Top