2016 re-draft

[PhillyGreen]

Dang, I remember Across the Field arguing about Dak about 14 months ago.

Dak's AV (pro reference stat for player value) for the past 3 seasons has been between 14-16 which is pretty steady despite massive differences in oline, weapons, etc. He'll be your 'Big Ben' from this class.

At this juncture, its #1 Goff, #2 Dak, #3 Wentz. In five years that might not be the case but I think thats pretty open and shut after only a couple of years imo.

Zeke would drop to at least 8th in a re-draft. Great player but the positional value of the other guys is too high

Wentz AV has been higher than Dak in ever season except one where they were both 14. Wentz has been top 10 in 2 of his 3 seasons. Goff has been lower than Dak and Wentz in both the seasons he started. Using the method you used following the numers the rankings should be 1. Wentz, 2. Dak, 3. Goff

 

[Clayton]

Wentz AV has been higher than Dak in ever season except one where they were both 14. Wentz has been top 10 in 2 of his 3 seasons. Goff has been lower than Dak and Wentz in both the seasons he started. Using the method you used following the numers the rankings should be 1. Wentz, 2. Dak, 3. Goff

I must be looking at the wrong stats because Im seeing Wentz AV at: 10, 14, 9.

I'm sure if Wentz never got injured then he would be ahead of Dak for 2 out of 3 seasons but he has been injured so...#3

 

[PhillyGreen]

I must be looking at the wrong stats because Im seeing Wentz AV at: 10, 14, 9.

I'm sure if Wentz never got injured then he would be ahead of Dak for 2 out of 3 seasons but he has been injured so...#3

I probably misunderstand how the number is actually applied as it pertains to its rankings.

I rank QB's based on ability not injury history. I personally think both Goff and Wentz are better than Dak when it comes to performing as a QB. I am concerned about Wentz health but that does not mean his does not have elite talent. Just for the sake of arguing.....knowing that all 3 QB's would be around for a full 16 game season no one would take Dak over Goff or Wentz.

 

[Across The Field]

Dang, I remember Across the Field arguing about Dak about 14 months ago.

Dak's AV (pro reference stat for player value) for the past 3 seasons has been between 14-16 which is pretty steady despite massive differences in oline, weapons, etc. He'll be your 'Big Ben' from this class.

At this juncture, its #1 Goff, #2 Dak, #3 Wentz. In five years that might not be the case but I think thats pretty open and shut after only a couple of years imo.

Zeke would drop to at least 8th in a re-draft. Great player but the positional value of the other guys is too high

This QB class will be judged on who stays healthy and who doesn't. I don't know anyone alive outside of Cowboys' fans that would take a healthy Dak over a healthy Wentz. I also think the "massive differences" tag is a bit overblown in relation to the Dallas OL.

Not a chance Zeke drops to 8th. He's the best all-around RB in the NFL. Rushing, receiving, and pass blocking, he really doesn't have a weakness. We'll see what Dak looks like if they decide to keep him and let Zeke go.

 

[Clayton]

Not a chance Zeke drops to 8th. He's the best all-around RB in the NFL. Rushing, receiving, and pass blocking, he really doesn't have a weakness. We'll see what Dak looks like if they decide to keep him and let Zeke go.

32 out of 32 teams would take Bosa over Zeke. You could probably admit that since they're both Ohio St guys.

Michael Thomas is also an Ohio State guy. He has had to carry that WR unit on a run heavy team. I think he is more of a 50/50 compared to Bosa but I would take the WR over the RB.

So he is at 6th already and I haven't gotten to Jalen Ramsey. This is probably where you can start the debate for Zeke.

 

[Across The Field]

32 out of 32 teams would take Bosa over Zeke. You could probably admit that since they're both Ohio St guys.

Michael Thomas is also an Ohio State guy. He has had to carry that WR unit on a run heavy team. I think he is more of a 50/50 compared to Bosa but I would take the WR over the RB.

So he is at 6th already and I haven't gotten to Jalen Ramsey. This is probably where you can start the debate for Zeke.

I can see what you mean about Bosa, but I'm not so sure about Mike Thomas. He's an elite WR, no question. However, when you consider the fact that Zeke is the quintessential 3-down workhorse back who is also an elite pass-blocker, he just brings too much value to the table to take a WR over him.

I'm taking Zeke over Ramsey. He isn't even the best CB on his own team. I can name at least 10-15 CBs I'd take over Ramsey right now. I'm not sure I would take any RB in the NFL over Zeke right now.

 

[Clayton]

As someone who owned Zeke in Fantasy last year, Zeke only has 18 Tds in the past two seasons. Todd Gurley had 21 last year alone. David Johnson was on the worst offense in football and had more Tds than Zeke.

/rant

 

[handicappers]

And less yards per carry and less yards per attempt. That is not better.

and nothing. I gave you two important stats that he was better at. You said otherwise. He clearly had better stats in those two categories.

 

[Across The Field]

As someone who owned Zeke in Fantasy last year, Zeke only has 18 Tds in the past two seasons. Todd Gurley had 21 last year alone. David Johnson was on the worst offense in football and had more Tds than Zeke.

/rant

He also missed almost 20% of his regular season games the last two seasons due to a bullshit suspension, so there's that.

If you were in a PPR league, Zeke more than made up for it. Also, don't forget about Dak taking short-yard TD runs from Zeke. 5 of his 6 TD runs last year were from 7 yards or closer. Gurley and Johnson weren't dealing with that.

 

[Across The Field]

and nothing. I gave you two important stats that he was better at. You said otherwise. He clearly had better stats in those two categories.

Then you must without a single question believe Eli Manning and Derek Carr were better passers in 2018 than Drew Brees. You have admitted to this with your logic.

 

[handicappers]

Played 16 games in all seasons. And the one season with the most passing yards? season 3

and the one season with the best rushing yards? season 3

Sorry, but that is not regression. Dak is going to get paid...and he's going to play on an explosive offense. He'll top 4000 yards passing and 700 yards rushing this upcoming season.

 

[handicappers]

Then you must without a single question believe Eli Manning and Derek Carr were better passers in 2018 than Drew Brees. You have admitted to this with your logic.

no, has nothing to do with any other player vs another player. I"m talking about ONE player...and the comparison between two seasons. It was you that said this:

And his numbers have been worse both seasons since his rookie year.

I provided numbers that were better. plain as day.

 

[fastforward]

Also Jaylon Smith, who was a top 10 ILB last year. That's no surprise given if he recovered from that gruesome injury (which he apparently did) he would've gone top 5, possibly to the Boys (instead of Elliott).

A re-do would be based on what players have done over 3 years and what is expected from year 4. In Smith's case that includes a whole year missed and without wishing to be disrespectful ILB is 1 of the less important player positions. Smith was a gamble that appears to have worked out for the Cowboys but in a re-do right now he wouldn't be top 20. In a year's time he might well be a top 20 pick. A year ago he wouldn't have been a top 75 pick.

 

[Across The Field]

no, has nothing to do with any other player vs another player. I"m talking about ONE player...and the comparison between two seasons. It was you that said this:



I provided numbers that were better. plain as day.

His overall numbers were better - if not much better - in 2016 than 2018. There is no argument against this absolute fact.

 

[Iggloo]

You know, since Dak is so great, I hope Jerry gives him at least $40 million a year in his upcoming contract. But apparently he is willing to give them a bargain at $34 mil a year.

Report: Dak Prescott’s agent has “broached” $34 million per year

 

[PhillyGreen]

32 out of 32 teams would take Bosa over Zeke. You could probably admit that since they're both Ohio St guys.

Michael Thomas is also an Ohio State guy. He has had to carry that WR unit on a run heavy team. I think he is more of a 50/50 compared to Bosa but I would take the WR over the RB.

So he is at 6th already and I haven't gotten to Jalen Ramsey. This is probably where you can start the debate for Zeke.

You could very well be correct because of the value of the position itself. Pass Rushing DE is always going to be taken over a RB. However the same argument could be used here like many have been using for Dak over Wentz. Joey Bosa is injury prone and has been injured in 2 of his 3 season. Zeke's missed games are because he was an idiot but youthful stupidity can be cured (hopefully).

From a longevity standpoint you almost always have to take Bosa over Zeke. Running backs just don't last long in the NFL. From an elite player standpoint I probably would take Zeke over Bosa if I was to start my season tomorrow. Zeke is special kind of back that you just don't see often in the NFL. While I am not saying he is HOF great right now he has HOF talent. Zeke changes a game. You only have to watch the Cowboys to see it. He puts the fear in any defense with his abilities and he makes the offense unpredictable. He is an Elite 3-down back and IMO hands down the best running back in the NFL right now.

 

[Clayton]

Zeke changes a game. You only have to watch the Cowboys to see it. He puts the fear in any defense with his abilities and he makes the offense unpredictable. He is an Elite 3-down back and IMO hands down the best running back in the NFL right now.

Yeah...he is that good although I wouldn't be shocked if Barkley passes him up. I think I'd be okay with Zeke being 5th or 6th in a redraft. I would still take Michael Thomas over him.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah...he is that good although I wouldn't be shocked if Barkley passes him up. I think I'd be okay with Zeke being 5th or 6th in a redraft. I would still take Michael Thomas over him.

I'd probably put Zeke right around that 5/6 mark as well. If Barkley can excel at pass pro, he'll definitely pass Zeke IMO. He's an unbelievable talent.

 

[Shanemansj13]

32 out of 32 teams would take Bosa over Zeke. You could probably admit that since they're both Ohio St guys.

Michael Thomas is also an Ohio State guy. He has had to carry that WR unit on a run heavy team. I think he is more of a 50/50 compared to Bosa but I would take the WR over the RB.

So he is at 6th already and I haven't gotten to Jalen Ramsey. This is probably where you can start the debate for Zeke.

I think you are looking at it from strictly positional value more than an actual player value/team value. A pass rushing DE is much more valuable than a RB, I think we can all agree with that but when you have to take everything into account: A. in Bosa's case, a great player that is injured a lot B. Zeke is more than just a great RB, he is an elite pass catcher and blocker.
It's close either way but from a position standpoint of course you take a DE freak like Bosa but comparing player to player and how much they impact their specific team...it's Zeke. I'm not saying it's by a whole lot though.

 

[Shanemansj13]

My re-draft (injuries play a role)

1st - Jared Goff - yes you heard that right. He isn't the most talented in this draft but he is still a very good QB in this league and he led his team to the SB.

2nd - Ezekiel Elliott - I have to put Elliott above Dak, even though Dak has been a very nice surprise and is a great young QB. Imagine Zeke's numbers if Dak didn't steal some of his rushing TD's lol.

3rd - Dak Prescott - a great college player and he has been a very good pro so far. Would like to see more improvement this year, he has the team around him when they are healthy to contend.

4th - Michael Thomas - he has improved every single year. He is a machine. Some of the best hands in the NFL and big target for Brees.

5th - Jalen Ramsey - shutdown CB, All-Pro. Great player.

6th - Carson Wentz - he is the most talented QB in this draft class BUT if you can't stay healthy for the playoffs it does your team no good. Hopefully he can bounce back and stay healthy this year for his team.

7th - Joey Bosa - an great talent that is injury-prone. If he can stay healthy he can have a great impact on his team more than he already does. He can be dominant.

8th - Tyreek Hill - a great find in the last rounds by Dorsey. Phenomenal speed and a game-changer for Mahomes. We might not see much of him anymore but to this point he has been a great explosive weapon.