2016 re-draft

[Across The Field]

OK, I'll take the homerism out of it with two questions for you.
1. Does Dak have the ability to win an MVP?
2. If a player is in the MVP conversation after 11 games does that show he's has the ability?

1. He hasn't shown that yet
2. Not at all. Any player can get on a hot streak. Case Keenum had a fantastic final 11 games to finish the 2017 regular season, but he's not an MVP-caliber QB. That's arbitrary as hell.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Tebow was the best draft in last 10 years 2016 pfttt

 

[PhillyGreen]

I'll dumb it down for you.

Moron said Dak doesn't have the ability as he's never been considered as an MVP. I'm in no way picking on Wentz's MVP chances here.

To be honest I don't really see where you are going with the point. I guess that is why the whole 11 game statement confused me. Dak was considered as an MVP did not finish anywhere near the top in voting. He got three 5th place votes. He did win offensive rookie of the year an award he did not deserve IMO. Should have went to Zeke. But....... you are correct he was in the MVP consideration for 2016 never considered a favorite though.

 

[Manster7588]

1. He hasn't shown that yet
2. Not at all. Any player can get on a hot streak. Case Keenum had a fantastic final 11 games to finish the 2017 regular season, but he's not an MVP-caliber QB. That's arbitrary as hell.

He had shown his rookie season he's capable. I now have to believe that the horse shit eating fad has migrated from Philly to Cleveland. Quit eating that shit it rots the brain.

 

[Across The Field]

He had shown his rookie season he's capable. I now have to believe that the horse shit eating fad has migrated from Philly to Cleveland. Quit eating that shit it rots the brain.

And his numbers have been worse both seasons since his rookie year. Regressing since your best season doesn't mean you're an MVP caliber player. Take off the homer glasses. This is a huge year for Dak. Either he shows that he can take that next step as a QB or he continues being average. It's just that simple to anyone who isn't a massive Dallas homer like yourself.

 

[PhillyGreen]

He had shown his rookie season he's capable. I now have to believe that the horse shit eating fad has migrated from Philly to Cleveland. Quit eating that shit it rots the brain.

And that is where the argument comes in. the truth is he did not put up MVP numbers his rookie season. He had a good season when it comes to the era of current QB's. His being a rookie led to some kind of mystique. He threw only 4 interceptions that season and to be honest that padded his numbers and that low interception ratio is not really sustainable. I said it then and I will say now. Dak's rookie season is thanks to having an elite RB like Zeke. Since that rookie season Dak has not even come close to living up to his rookie hype. He has not really improved in any areas.

 

[Across The Field]

And that is where the argument comes in. the truth is he did not put up MVP numbers his rookie season. He had a good season when it comes to the era of current QB's. His being a rookie led to some kind of mystique. He threw only 4 interceptions that season and to be honest that padded his states. I said it then and I will say now. Dak's rookie season is thanks to having an elite RB like Zeke. Since that rookie season Dak has not even come close to living up to his rookie hype. He has not really improved in any areas.

That's what these Cowboy homers can't seem to grasp. 2016 was a long time ago, and it's really the only year he's been anything close to an MVP candidate, and he really wasn't. Matt Ryan's numbers absolutely destroyed Dak's.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Clearly the Cowboys had a spectacularly successful Draft with Elliot and Prescott. That said #1 and #5 overall is overdoing it.

Also Jaylon Smith, who was a top 10 ILB last year. That's no surprise given if he recovered from that gruesome injury (which he apparently did) he would've gone top 5, possibly to the Boys (instead of Elliott).

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Eagles, Rams, and Cowboys fans arguing. Jesus this thread could be epic.

Anyway:
Wentz should change his last name to Wince.
Goff is like watching a Pentium 2 brute force hack the Pentagon in terms of field scanning.
And Dak looks like he's taking a dancing class before he throws a football.

They're all whatever and play behind great OLs with (outside of Wince) arguably the best RBs in the NFL (if Gurley can get healthy). Basically throw em in an Excel spreadsheet and randomize and assign em' to a re-draft.

 

[jarntt]

I will chime in and say yes. In my opinion a player that can play at MVP level for all of the games he play in a season has the ability. I am going to assume that you are talking about Carson Wentz with your 11 game narrative. I will add further to that and say that even though he was injured last year he still played well and was the 7th rated QB in the NFL.

Now the argument it seems is if Dak does or does not have that ability. I think the question is still up in the air. I have gone on record repeatedly saying that all of Dak's accolades his rookie season should have gone to Zeke.

Here is the sticking point that some may have. If Dak was a perennial MVP that performance should have carried on when Zeke got suspended. Without Zeke in the lineup he did not look good at all. In fact last season many including Cowboys fans thought it could very well be time to move on from Dak. That was until the trade for Cooper was made and then Dak's performance was improved. That led to arguments that Dak can't make people better he needs good players around him to make him better.

Zeke definitely would have been able to block Adrian Clayborn

 

[Manster7588]

That's what these Cowboy homers can't seem to grasp. 2016 was a long time ago, and it's really the only year he's been anything close to an MVP candidate, and he really wasn't. Matt Ryan's numbers absolutely destroyed Dak's.

Again, all I'm saying is Dak was in the conversation, while PE1 says he was never in a MVP race.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Again, all I'm saying is Dak was in the conversation, while PE1 says he was never in a MVP race.

On that point you are correct. He was in the conversation all year because there were many debates on whether he belonged there or not.

 

[Across The Field]

Again, all I'm saying is Dak was in the conversation, while PE1 says he was never in a MVP race.

So what? There are tons of players who can get hot for a cherry-picked portion of a season. It happens all the time. Shit, back in 2007, Derek Anderson started the year with 20 TD passes through his first 9 games, and even went to the Pro Bowl that year. Clearly he was never an MVP-caliber player in his career, but he played really well for a chunk of his best season as a pro. That means literally nothing.

 

[handicappers]

And his numbers have been worse both seasons since his rookie year. Regressing since your best season doesn't mean you're an MVP caliber player. Take off the homer glasses. This is a huge year for Dak. Either he shows that he can take that next step as a QB or he continues being average. It's just that simple to anyone who isn't a massive Dallas homer like yourself.

wrong

 

[handicappers]

Again, all I'm saying is Dak was in the conversation, while PE1 says he was never in a MVP race.

PE1's a moron with low self esteem. Cut him some slack.

 

[Across The Field]

wrong

Not at all actually

 

[handicappers]

Not at all actually

He had more passing yards and more rushing yards in season 3 than season 1.

 

[Across The Field]

He had more passing yards and more rushing yards in season 3 than season 1.

And less yards per carry and less yards per attempt. That is not better.

 

[PhillyGreen]

And less yards per carry and less yards per attempt. That is not better.

Pretty much. The thing that baffles me is that people seem to think that Dak's rookie season was some great magical season when the truth is it was not. The only reason it stands out is because he was a rookie putting up the best season any rookie QB has ever had. If any other starting QB (besides another rookie) had put up those numbers everyone would have scoffed at the mention of said QB being an MVP candidate when if we are being honest those numbers are nothing more than game manager numbers. If we was to take a look at the performances of all the other QB in 2016 it could be said that 10 easily had better years and some could argue as high as 15.

Dak had the best year a rookie QB has ever had and it was impressive. However the best season ever by 1st year starter belongs to Mahomes. I give it as much weight as I do Dak's rookie season because it was only his second season in the NFL. His season not only goes down as the best 1st year starter but arguably one of the best of all time. The way I see it if Dak was a true MVP candidate he would have added to his legend with improvement not regression.

 

[Clayton]

Dang, I remember Across the Field arguing about Dak about 14 months ago.

Dak's AV (pro reference stat for player value) for the past 3 seasons has been between 14-16 which is pretty steady despite massive differences in oline, weapons, etc. He'll be your 'Big Ben' from this class.

At this juncture, its #1 Goff, #2 Dak, #3 Wentz. In five years that might not be the case but I think thats pretty open and shut after only a couple of years imo.

Zeke would drop to at least 8th in a re-draft. Great player but the positional value of the other guys is too high