2012-13 Preseason Thread

[Sackataters]

The block and dunk by evans was one of the most awe inspiring things I've seen on the court in a long time. It was absolutely sick and had me on the ceiling. Incredible in the moment.

Kanter is playing great again. He is not making the same rookie errors and appears to have learned a lot. He is passing out of the post. He has good footwork. He is keepIng the ball up high.

Really liking Carrolls play too.

 

[Sackataters]

I like Kanter a lot and he's doing well, and despite his 14 and 14, I don't expect much offense from him. A few shots and a bunch of putbacks are my expectations for this year. And since I don't anticipate big minutes, I am not expecting much from him.

I am. The kid has grown physically and mentally. He has broken a lot of his rookie habits. I bet he gets 15 to 20 mins easy.

 

[MHSL82]

I am. The kid has grown physically and mentally. He has broken a lot of his rookie habits. I bet he gets 15 to 20 mins easy.

I can buy that and I can buy him being pretty efficient in his time, I guess what I meant was 15-20 minutes wasn't much for productivity to be that high on offense, as I see him primarily as a defender/rebounder.

 

[nuraman00]

Close game at the end. (I only saw the last 45 seconds).

 

[nuraman00]

Where can I find preseason NBA box scores, other than ESPN? I used to know a site that kept it, in plain text format (not tables), but that was a few years ago.

And is there a site where I can fine the game log for a player and see his preseason games?

What's the best site to navigate through preseason box scores, either by team or by player?

 

[nuraman00]

Past Game Threads

6 PM PST
7 PM MST

 

[nuraman00]

This game is on NBA TV, in addition to NBA LP.

I mention this because not all NBA LP channels are HD, but if you have NBA TV, you can watch it in HD for sure.

 

[nuraman00]

Wow. Imagine if Marvin was playing instead of Ronnie Brewer those years ago.

I liked Brewer's ability to run and get layups in transition, but Marvin is more versatile. He can shoot better, defend more players, and rebound better.

 

[nuraman00]

Sloppy play by both teams. This definitely feels like preseason.

 

[nuraman00]

As much as I liked watching the Hawks in general (I thought they were a pretty good team that played hard), it's becoming apparent that Marvin's role was limited on offense there.

On the Jazz, he's getting more opportunities, and making the most of them.

I'll have to check the Usage Rate statistics once the season begins to confirm, but I'll bet that he is involved more on the offense here, and his usage rate should confirm it.

 

[nuraman00]

Watching the frontcourt, I don't think it would be fair to criticize anyone after a bad game. I feel that the frontcourt in general is a strength, and some games Favors might have a bad game, but Kanter will be there. Others, Millsap might have a bad game, but Favors will have a strong game.

You get the idea. It's deep and they all play hard.

I'm more interested in frontcourt team stats, like points in the paint, FG%, rebounding, defense, and even assists.

 

[MHSL82]

As much as I liked watching the Hawks in general (I thought they were a pretty good team that played hard), it's becoming apparent that Marvin's role was limited on offense there.

On the Jazz, he's getting more opportunities, and making the most of them.

I'll have to check the Usage Rate statistics once the season begins to confirm, but I'll bet that he is involved more on the offense here, and his usage rate should confirm it.

I thought that both Bogut and Marvin were being held back throughout their careers offensively. I primarily watched the Jazz, of course, but my second most watched team was the Bucks. Bogut had pretty good percentages and moves in which I thought the coach failed to use. It was like he had determined that Bogut was a put-back artist, not a scorer. He was under-used in my opinion. It's hard for me to back it up because any stats I find will be in the context of using him opportunistically. I can't extrapolate to say if he shot more those percentages would stay the same. I can find a few games where they went to him more aggressively and he succeeded.

As for Marvin, I'll take your word for it because I never watched him unless he was playing the Jazz. I didn't want him to do well in Atlanta because I wanted the pick of Bogut as number one over Marvin to be more justified.

 

[nuraman00]

I thought that both Bogut and Marvin were being held back throughout their careers offensively. I primarily watched the Jazz, of course, but my second most watched team was the Bucks. Bogut had pretty good percentages and moves in which I thought the coach failed to use. It was like he had determined that Bogut was a put-back artist, not a scorer. He was under-used in my opinion. It's hard for me to back it up because any stats I find will be in the context of using him opportunistically. I can't extrapolate to say if he shot more those percentages would stay the same. I can find a few games where they went to him more aggressively and he succeeded.

As for Marvin, I'll take your word for it because I never watched him unless he was playing the Jazz. I didn't want him to do well in Atlanta because I wanted the pick of Bogut as number one over Marvin to be more justified.

I had the same question about Bogut's offense and his role several years ago. I made a thread about it on the Bucks' board.

The conclusion that I got was that while he was efficient, he didn't have the athleticism to become more of a scoring factor. Not enough easy buckets on his own.

Now that he's on a new team, it will be interesting to see how he's used. I really like the way David Lee plays, and is used. Lee has a face-up game. They also sometimes use Lee in the post, and he passes out to shooters.

If Bogut is used in as versatile as situations as Lee, it will be very interesting.

I also think Mark Jackson is a much better tactical coach than Keith Smart, so I don't think coaching should hold the Warriors back.

The only thing about the Bucks is that since they didn't make the playoffs very often, I didn't get to really study Bogut. It's one thing to watch a few regular season games, but because I always watch every playoffs series and pay more attention to all teams in the playoffs, I could have studied his situation more.

He only made the playoffs twice, and I didn't have much time to watch the Hawks-Bucks series from 2010. And then in 2006, there were just better series than a 1 vs. 8 matchup with Detroit. Plus, with the early weekday start times, and not having a DVR back then, I would miss some of the games anyways.

Now that I've had a DVR the last few years, I can at least watch a quarter if it's a good game, even for an early start playoffs game. I can skip to the 1st or 4th quarter and get a feel for what was happening in the game.

While watching the Hawks in the playoffs the last 4 years, of course Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Al Horford stood out. But I also remember more of Jeff Teague and Zaza Pachulia than I ever did Marvin Williams. And also Ivan Johnson.

I get the feeling that if the Jazz make the playoffs again, I'll probably remember more from Marvin Williams than I ever did when he was a Hawk.

I mention the playoffs because while the regular season is one thing, it's just more exciting and memorable to watch a nice game from someone in the playoffs.

 

[nuraman00]

As for Marvin, I'll take your word for it because I never watched him unless he was playing the Jazz. I didn't want him to do well in Atlanta because I wanted the pick of Bogut as number one over Marvin to be more justified.

Bogut's one of the best players not to have been an All-Star. He just never made it because Milwaukee never had a great win total.

Marvin isn't close to that level.

So even if Marvin were still a Hawk, I think you could have let the "I want Bogut to succeed but not Marvin" thing go, because Bogut had still had a better career.

 

[MHSL82]

Bogut's one of the best players not to have been an All-Star. He just never made it because Milwaukee never had a great win total.

Marvin isn't close to that level.

So even if Marvin were still a Hawk, I think you could have let the "I want Bogut to succeed but not Marvin" thing go, because Bogut had still had a better career.

I hold grudges. Just kidding, but I was mainly talking about the first few years where potentially their fates could have been switched. Marvin averaged so little for the hype he got, my guess was he was expected to be a slow developer with a high ceiling? The development was slow, but has led to a disappointment so far? Or was he who they wanted but selected too high? I don't know - he'd have an argument that he is good enough but wasn't used, but looking from their perspective and assuming they wanted him to succeed, I don't see the reason why he'd be under/misused. Joe Johnson was the focal point and he did a lot of the SG stuff that Marvin would have normally been asked to do. Josh Smith overlapped, too, right?

 

[nuraman00]

I thought that both Bogut and Marvin were being held back throughout their careers offensively. I primarily watched the Jazz, of course, but my second most watched team was the Bucks. Bogut had pretty good percentages and moves in which I thought the coach failed to use. It was like he had determined that Bogut was a put-back artist, not a scorer. He was under-used in my opinion. It's hard for me to back it up because any stats I find will be in the context of using him opportunistically. I can't extrapolate to say if he shot more those percentages would stay the same. I can find a few games where they went to him more aggressively and he succeeded.

As for Marvin, I'll take your word for it because I never watched him unless he was playing the Jazz. I didn't want him to do well in Atlanta because I wanted the pick of Bogut as number one over Marvin to be more justified.

I hold grudges. Just kidding,

I hold grudges. Just kidding, but I was mainly talking about the first few years where potentially their fates could have been switched. Marvin averaged so little for the hype he got, my guess was he was expected to be a slow developer with a high ceiling? The development was slow, but has led to a disappointment so far? Or was he who they wanted but selected too high? I don't know - he'd have an argument that he is good enough but wasn't used, but looking from their perspective and assuming they wanted him to succeed, I don't see the reason why he'd be under/misused. Joe Johnson was the focal point and he did a lot of the SG stuff that Marvin would have normally been asked to do. Josh Smith overlapped, too, right?

The Hawks selected Marvin because even though he didn't even start for UNC, they thought that's because UNC was just deep, and they thought he was just good player stuck on a deep team.

I would say he was fine defensively in the NBA, but disappointing on offense, just too inconsistent. Maybe the various offenses the Hawks had just weren't as versatile as the Flex offense, which the Jazz use.

I also think Al Horford's development cut into Marvin's, because Horford was as good with the midrange jumper, maybe even slightly better, than Marvin. So because Johnson, Bibby (when he was there), and Horford could all hit the midrange jumper, as well or better than Marvin, that cut into his role.

On the Jazz, their strength is more in the paint. Marvin's midrange shooting is not duplicated by many, so it's needed more.

On a side note, Josh Smith is another guy who's too good to have never been an All-Star. However, I don't know if he'll make it, because he would never get in as a starter. And I don't think he'd get in on the coach's vote, because I have a feeling coaches just don't like him, even though they respect his many talents.

 

[MHSL82]

I went back to SLC for Thanksgiving two years ago and caught the victory against LA in the ESA. I had such a great time that I bought tickets for the Bucks game. My kids and I went super early and watched shoot around. We waited by the tunnel and caught some autographs on our caps...Big Al, Evans, Hayward, Raja (pittuey). Then, Jerry freaking Sloan walks out. My heart starts beating. He does an interview and walks toward the tunnel. Initially, he rebuffs some requests for autographs, but promises that he'll be back. Sure enough, he came back and was so gracious. Signed our tickets and caps. He signed my cap and I went to say thanks, but my voice betrayed me. He was on his way out when I had one of those A Christmas Story moments....no wait, I want a red rider bb gun with a compass in the stock. I managed to find the words to ask if I could shake his hand and get a pic. He said sure. I felt like a kid. Pic didn't turn out great, but it was a great moment. I guess it is that Midwest tough guy Clint Eastwood persona that I respect. Ultimately, that was one of his last games coaching at the ESA.

@nuraman00 Thought you could add this to your collection. You had a thread for favorites somewhere.

 

[nuraman00]

@nuraman00 Thought you could add this to your collection. You had a thread for favorites somewhere.

Wow, I don't even remember this story. Thanks for bumping it.

Funny that @Sackataters had "A Christmas Story" moment. That doesn't seem like it would usually be him, he seems like in most situations, he'd have authority over the moment.

But I guess even the moment of meeting Jerry Sloan, overtook him.

 

[nuraman00]

I hold grudges. Just kidding, but I was mainly talking about the first few years where potentially their fates could have been switched. Marvin averaged so little for the hype he got, my guess was he was expected to be a slow developer with a high ceiling? The development was slow, but has led to a disappointment so far? Or was he who they wanted but selected too high? I don't know - he'd have an argument that he is good enough but wasn't used, but looking from their perspective and assuming they wanted him to succeed, I don't see the reason why he'd be under/misused. Joe Johnson was the focal point and he did a lot of the SG stuff that Marvin would have normally been asked to do. Josh Smith overlapped, too, right?

Funny to see Joe Johnson referenced in an old thread. Since he would be a future important player for the Jazz, in a fun season, in 2016-2017.

No, Joe Johnson being the focal point didn't cause Marvin to be lackluster. It was Marvin himself.

Look at the Heat this year. They have a lot of people that play a similar position to Butler, but have also been able to develop Duncan Robinson, Tyler Herro.

If a player is good and aggressive, he'll find a way to make an impact.

Mehmet Okur was on the same team as Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace, but was a good player for the Pistons during his 2 years there.

 

[nuraman00]

I thought that both Bogut and Marvin were being held back throughout their careers offensively. I primarily watched the Jazz, of course, but my second most watched team was the Bucks. Bogut had pretty good percentages and moves in which I thought the coach failed to use. It was like he had determined that Bogut was a put-back artist, not a scorer. He was under-used in my opinion. It's hard for me to back it up because any stats I find will be in the context of using him opportunistically. I can't extrapolate to say if he shot more those percentages would stay the same. I can find a few games where they went to him more aggressively and he succeeded.

As for Marvin, I'll take your word for it because I never watched him unless he was playing the Jazz. I didn't want him to do well in Atlanta because I wanted the pick of Bogut as number one over Marvin to be more justified.

I had the same question about Bogut's offense and his role several years ago. I made a thread about it on the Bucks' board.

The conclusion that I got was that while he was efficient, he didn't have the athleticism to become more of a scoring factor. Not enough easy buckets on his own.

Now that he's on a new team, it will be interesting to see how he's used. I really like the way David Lee plays, and is used. Lee has a face-up game. They also sometimes use Lee in the post, and he passes out to shooters.

If Bogut is used in as versatile as situations as Lee, it will be very interesting.

I also think Mark Jackson is a much better tactical coach than Keith Smart, so I don't think coaching should hold the Warriors back.

The only thing about the Bucks is that since they didn't make the playoffs very often, I didn't get to really study Bogut. It's one thing to watch a few regular season games, but because I always watch every playoffs series and pay more attention to all teams in the playoffs, I could have studied his situation more.

He only made the playoffs twice, and I didn't have much time to watch the Hawks-Bucks series from 2010. And then in 2006, there were just better series than a 1 vs. 8 matchup with Detroit. Plus, with the early weekday start times, and not having a DVR back then, I would miss some of the games anyways.

Now that I've had a DVR the last few years, I can at least watch a quarter if it's a good game, even for an early start playoffs game. I can skip to the 1st or 4th quarter and get a feel for what was happening in the game.

While watching the Hawks in the playoffs the last 4 years, of course Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Al Horford stood out. But I also remember more of Jeff Teague and Zaza Pachulia than I ever did Marvin Williams. And also Ivan Johnson.

I get the feeling that if the Jazz make the playoffs again, I'll probably remember more from Marvin Williams than I ever did when he was a Hawk.

I mention the playoffs because while the regular season is one thing, it's just more exciting and memorable to watch a nice game from someone in the playoffs.

Seeing as what Bogut would do with the Warriors, he never played many more minutes with the Warriors either.

I think the conclusion is that he's a good player, but just can't make an impact in heavy minutes.

He had a lot of opportunity on the Warriors, but eventually a future draft player in Draymond Green, would win the minutes battle.

Bogut is good in a certain amount of minutes, but just can't seem to either play heavy minutes, or make an impact in heavy minutes. Hence why there have always been other centers on his teams, that have played some important minutes too.

Some of it may be foul problems, some of it may be he's just not that guy.

Look at LeBron James vs. Andrew Bogut. You don't see 2nd round picks eating into his minutes.