The Double Dribble Travel Double Dribble and Other Rules Thread

nuraman00 said:

I got an alert that MHSL82 "liked" a post in this thread. But it doesn't tell me which post he liked. He could have newly liked any post in this thread.

There needs to be a way for the notification box to take you to exactly which post was liked.

Click to expand...

Well, you have so few likes to your posts that it shouldn't be hard to find it. Just kidding. In this thread, it should be pretty easy to find, though.

nuraman00 said:

Click to expand...

I wish this video was still available. Because I'm sure I'm still confused, 7.5 years later, on why that was a double dribble, and the post @MHSL82 told me to see here:

#3

Ok, I'm confused with this whole out of bounds thing again.

In this play, Harden blocks Dort's shot.


While the ball is in the air, Dort has his foot on the line. Apparently that means he is out of bounds. He then jumps to try and catch the ball. But because he was out of bounds, the ball immediately goes to Houston, from the point in time that Dort stepped on the line, which was 2.7 seconds.

In Miami-Boston game 2, Butler deflects a ball.

He then keeps it from going out of bounds.

The ball stays in bounds.

Butler's momentum then carries him out of bounds.

The play is allowed to continue.


What's the difference? Once Butler stepped out of bounds, why weren't the Heat penalized?

nuraman00 said:

Ok, I'm confused with this whole out of bounds thing again.

In this play, Harden blocks Dort's shot.


While the ball is in the air, Dort has his foot on the line. Apparently that means he is out of bounds. He then jumps to try and catch the ball. But because he was out of bounds, the ball immediately goes to Houston, from the point in time that Dort stepped on the line, which was 2.7 seconds.

In Miami-Boston game 2, Butler deflects a ball.

He then keeps it from going out of bounds.

The ball stays in bounds.

Butler's momentum then carries him out of bounds.

The play is allowed to continue.


What's the difference? Once Butler stepped out of bounds, why weren't the Heat penalized?

Click to expand...

A player must reestablish themselves in the field of play before touching the ball and therefore in the first instance, the player did not. Butler does not touch the ball until he has 2 feet on the court. Running out of bounds doesn’t make you ineligible. Having basically your last step being out of bounds, you are out of bounds.

You should watch one of Pippen’s plays where he throws it off the back of another player on the inbound pass and then makes the shot himself. He has to establish himself on the court. This is not like football where certain situations you can’t go out of bounds and then be the first to touch the ball.

Now, obviously, you cannot save the ball and then be the first person to touch the ball if they determine that you had control because that would be basically double dribbling or something. That’s why you cannot pass it to yourself besides off the backboard (which is considered a miss and offensive rebound?). I might be wrong on this cause I’ve never seen somebody throw the ball ahead of themselves and grab it for a layup (that I have seen people take really long dribbles). Doesn’t seem to have any real reliable benefit to it.

MHSL82 said:

A player must reestablish themselves in the field of play before touching the ball and therefore in the first instance, the player did not.

Click to expand...

Thank you. So the problem was that Dort was out of bounds; therefore jumping, catching the ball in mid-air, and landing in bounds, is not legal, because he was not in the field of play before he jumped.

Had he been in bounds, he could have jumped out of bounds, then while in mid air, caught the ball, threw it in bounds, and then landed in bounds, and that would have been ok?

nuraman00 said:

Thank you. So the problem was that Dort was out of bounds; therefore jumping, catching the ball in mid-air, and landing in bounds, is not legal, because he was not in the field of play before he jumped.

Had he been in bounds, he could have jumped out of bounds, then while in mid air, caught the ball, threw it in bounds, and then landed in bounds, and that would have been ok?

Click to expand...

Players used to be able to call timeout as they were falling out of bounds but then some rule was passed to stop it.

I don’t know when the rule was passed, but it was during Stockton and Malone days.

NBA Rule Book
Rule 5, Section VIII(e)

Check this out, do you think you said it in time (before his hand is out) and do you think it should be counted? Maybe the time out, because of the travel, too. Just kidding.

Sharing because it’s funny:

8 Second Violation:
They talk about advancing the ball with a time out. I’m not sure what the rule is in the NBA when you’ve had the ball for seven seconds. i’m only familiar with it if it is after a made basket/free throw or a turnover by the other team or loose ball out of bounds. And I don’t feel that they would have to take another time out to adVance the ball. If advancing the ball was an option after 7 seconds, you can call it because of the 8 second violation avoidance, but you could just say that you want to call it because of advancing the ball. I don’t know if you have to call two timeouts or if you have to attempt to inbound the ball and then call timeout. But it doesn’t make sense why you would have to take two timeouts. but it doesn’t also make sense that you can dribble the ball for seven seconds and then call it.

There was another video where LeBron James calls a timeout when the other team has possession. But the video isn‘t very entertaining. There may be exceptions, but typically you need to have possession of the ball to call timeout. The video it shows the objection by the player claiming that they already had possession.

Here's the rules on timeouts:

+++++++


There are two mandatory timeouts in each period. If no team takes a timeout before the 6:59 mark of a quarter, then it is taken upon the first dead ball and charged to the home team. If no subsequent timeouts are taken before the 2:59 mark of a quarter, then the other team is charged the other mandatory timeout at the next dead ball. For nationally televised games, the mandatory timeouts last 3:15. For all other local games, the mandatory timeouts last 2:45. All other timeouts last for 1:15.
++++++++

This is important because Indiana ran out of timeouts and was charged a technical foul, because they had to take a mandatory timeout in the 4th, and didn't have any left.



There's a line item for the forced timeout the Pacers had to take:

PopcornMachine's GameFlows - Indiana Pacers @ Sacramento Kings - Nov 30, 2022

nuraman00 said:

Here's the rules on timeouts:

+++++++

NBA head coaches unplugged: The art of calling timeouts

What's in calling a timeout? Do coaches have a go-to move? Law Murray interviewed a dozen NBA coaches to find out.

theathletic.com

There are two mandatory timeouts in each period. If no team takes a timeout before the 6:59 mark of a quarter, then it is taken upon the first dead ball and charged to the home team. If no subsequent timeouts are taken before the 2:59 mark of a quarter, then the other team is charged the other mandatory timeout at the next dead ball. For nationally televised games, the mandatory timeouts last 3:15. For all other local games, the mandatory timeouts last 2:45. All other timeouts last for 1:15.
++++++++

This is important because Indiana ran out of timeouts and was charged a technical foul, because they had to take a mandatory timeout in the 4th, and didn't have any left.

Pacers vs Kings, November 30, 2022 | Basketball-Reference.com

IND (114) vs SAC (137). Get the box score, shot charts and play by play summary of the Pacers vs Kings, November 30, 2022.

www.basketball-reference.com

1:24.0	Indiana full timeout		108-136
1:24.0	I. Jackson enters the game for T. McConnell		108-136
1:24.0	A. Nembhard enters the game for A. Nesmith		108-136
1:24.0	Technical foul by		108-136
1:24.0	Indiana full timeout

There's a line item for the forced timeout the Pacers had to take:

PopcornMachine's GameFlows - Indiana Pacers @ Sacramento Kings - Nov 30, 2022

Click to expand...

Here’s the workaround: never have a dead ball. Just keep turning the ball over back-and-forth.

Seriously though, I think this is pretty unfair except for the fact that teams would stop calling time outs there and just wait for the scheduled time out if this didn’t happen. I wonder how many coaches ever consider either not calling a time out so they can penalize the others team for not calling a timeout because there’s going to be another timeout taken anyway by the other team. I don’t think many ever think about the first scenario, but since it is their job, they might know that they don’t need to call time out because it’s close. This would be an assistant coach’s job though they wouldn’t really stop the head coach from calling the time out because they needed to regroup or something. I think most timeouts obviously are going to be able to flow game or personnel substitutions.

There's 7 timeouts per game.

So unless they used all 7 before the end of the first, or second quarters, the penalty would not happen in the 2nd or 3rd quarters.

It would only most likely happen in the 4th quarter, like it did in this case.