An actual thread about basketball

msgkings322 · Jul 3, 2020

Scenario:

Bucks lose to the Sixers in the ECF this year. Giannis goes to management and says I am definitely leaving in a year, and you cannot change my mind.

Warriors offer Draymond, Wiggins, and the Minny pick for one year of Giannis. Who says no?

What if it's Dray, Wiggins, and their own first? Wiggins and both picks?

tlance · Jul 3, 2020

msgkings322 said:
Scenario:

Bucks lose to the Sixers in the ECF this year. Giannis goes to management and says I am definitely leaving in a year, and you cannot change my mind.

Warriors offer Draymond, Wiggins, and the Minny pick for one year of Giannis. Who says no?

What if it's Dray, Wiggins, and their own first? Wiggins and both picks?

Wiggins, both picks and a couple more future 1s, but that only gets it done if Giannis has a short list of destinations and GS is on it.

Doubt they would be interested in trading for Draymond, and the Warriors still need him.

trojanfan12 · Jul 3, 2020

thunderc said:
Does melo have fake profiles to defend himself from too?

No. That's why he'd be a poor man's KD.

lebron23james · Jul 3, 2020

True Lakers Fan said:
Only in your fantasies

If the Lakers can go after Jr Smith, whats the big deal? lol

lebron23james · Jul 3, 2020

trojanfan12 said:
No. That's why he'd be a poor man's KD.

I never said how poor lmao

msgkings322 · Jul 3, 2020

lebron23james said:
I never said how poor lmao

So poor he can't afford internet I guess :noidea:

True Lakers Fan · Jul 3, 2020

trojanfan12 said:
No. That's why he'd be a poor man's KD.

More like Poverty stricken and bankrupt :lol:

dtgold88 · Jul 4, 2020

tlance said:
Wiggins, both picks and a couple more future 1s, but that only gets it done if Giannis has a short list of destinations and GS is on it.

Doubt they would be interested in trading for Draymond, and the Warriors still need him.

You really think it takes 4 picks knowing 2 might be very high picks and Giannis could leave after 1 season?

Guess maybe as who knows if they like what they could get with those 2 "very high" picks.

tlance · Jul 4, 2020

dtgold88 said:
You really think it takes 4 picks knowing 2 might be very high picks and Giannis could leave after 1 season?

Guess maybe as who knows if they like what they could get with those 2 "very high" picks.

Yes.

First off, the Warriors would surely have a good shot at resigning him.

Giannis is arguably the best player in the league. Hitting on all 4 picks still probably doesn’t come close to matching Giannis value.

There have been stars traded, but when was the last time a prime MVP player like Giannis was traded?

I honestly can’t think of one.

Also, Anthony Davis (not as valuable as Giannis) returned 3 firsts (1 top 5) plus 3 good prospects. That is definitely more valuable than what the Warriors could realistically offer. Especially considering that this year’s draft class doesn’t have any obvious stars. So even if the Dubs hit top pick, might not be much more valuable than the Lakers 4 from last year.

dtgold88 · Jul 5, 2020

tlance said:
Yes.

First off, the Warriors would surely have a good shot at resigning him.

Giannis is arguably the best player in the league. Hitting on all 4 picks still probably doesn’t come close to matching Giannis value.

There have been stars traded, but when was the last time a prime MVP player like Giannis was traded?

I honestly can’t think of one.

Also, Anthony Davis (not as valuable as Giannis) returned 3 firsts (1 top 5) plus 3 good prospects. That is definitely more valuable than what the Warriors could realistically offer. Especially considering that this year’s draft class doesn’t have any obvious stars. So even if the Dubs hit top pick, might not be much more valuable than the Lakers 4 from last year.

Not much disagreement. when I first wrote that I was thinking a potential #1 pick....then remembered doesn't look like a gamechanger is expected in this draft (why I put last paragraph in kind of refuting my own comment).

Though I do believe if they hit on this year's top pick he'll be more valuable than the 4 from LA.

tlance · Jul 5, 2020

dtgold88 said:
Not much disagreement. when I first wrote that I was thinking a potential #1 pick....then remembered doesn't look like a gamechanger is expected in this draft (why I put last paragraph in kind of refuting my own comment).

Though I do believe if they hit on this year's top pick he'll be more valuable than the 4 from LA.

I agree more valuable than last year’s 4, because really there was a big gap after the top 2, and another after 3.

But I don’t see a Zion or Ja in this year’s draft that is a good bet to be a franchise cornerstone. IMO, this year’s 1 is probably about equal to last year’s 3. Someone will probably emerge, but really hard to predict exactly who.

shopson67 · Jul 6, 2020

dtgold88 said:
Not much disagreement. when I first wrote that I was thinking a potential #1 pick....then remembered doesn't look like a gamechanger is expected in this draft (why I put last paragraph in kind of refuting my own comment).

Though I do believe if they hit on this year's top pick he'll be more valuable than the 4 from LA.

I don't know about that; is there anyone in this draft that's already as good as Ingram or guaranteed to be better in the future?

shopson67 · Jul 6, 2020

Barring a surprise like Giannis being available, I think the Warriors keep their high pick and maybe use the lower pick in trade for a role player. Who can they trade the pick for (within reason) that would be worth losing Wiggins and/or Green along with the draft pick? Their roster is very top heavy with salary, so there's not a lot of options in terms of trading that pick with a salary that's not a key player already. Looney has a player option, so he would be tough to trade unless already opted in and agreeable, and even then wouldn't draw a lot in trade.

tlance · Jul 6, 2020

shopson67 said:
I don't know about that; is there anyone in this draft that's already as good as Ingram or guaranteed to be better in the future?

Ingram wasn’t as good as Ingram until he broke out this year.

Also, heading into RFA brings his trade value down.

He was a valuable trade asset, don’t get me wrong. But not nearly as valuable as a top 4 pick at the time he was dealt. The math on that has changed considerably due to his play this past season. In 2019 it was a legit question whether or not the Lakers would have even resigned Ingram considering he might have received max offers. Now I think it is very clear that he is worth a rookie max contract and his value has appreciated significantly.

Shanemansj13 · Jul 7, 2020

Wiggins and their 2020 pick for Giannis

shopson67 · Jul 7, 2020

tlance said:
Ingram wasn’t as good as Ingram until he broke out this year.

Also, heading into RFA brings his trade value down.

He was a valuable trade asset, don’t get me wrong. But not nearly as valuable as a top 4 pick at the time he was dealt. The math on that has changed considerably due to his play this past season. In 2019 it was a legit question whether or not the Lakers would have even resigned Ingram considering he might have received max offers. Now I think it is very clear that he is worth a rookie max contract and his value has appreciated significantly.

That top 4 pick isn't in a vacuum however. What player in the top 4 do you think exceeds Ingram's value?

Ingram showed strong signs his last year with the Lakers prior to injury where he was putting up big numbers.

tlance · Jul 7, 2020

shopson67 said:
That top 4 pick isn't in a vacuum however. What player in the top 4 do you think exceeds Ingram's value?

Ingram showed strong signs his last year with the Lakers prior to injury where he was putting up big numbers.

As of 2019 summer when the trade was made?

All of them.

You neglect to factor in that he only had 1 year until RFA.

Players who aren’t obvious max contract guys, like Ingram, don’t have nearly as much trade value as a 4th overall pick who will have 4 seasons to prove their worth before reaching RFA. Otto Porter Jr. was in a very similar place as Ingram and he went the other direction. Same with Julius Randle.

These good, not great players often end up getting overpaid by the franchise who signs them and their trade value is limited because of that fact.

A player’s trade value isn’t about how good they are. It is about how good they are relative to their contract. Good, not great players like 2019 Ingram have less value because their acquiring team isn’t sure they can afford to resign them.

msgkings322 · Jul 7, 2020

Shanemansj13 said:
Wiggins and their 2020 pick for Giannis

That seems REALLY short of what it will take. You don't think other teams can offer more?

trojanfan12 · Jul 7, 2020

tlance said:
Ingram wasn’t as good as Ingram until he broke out this year.

Also, heading into RFA brings his trade value down.

He was a valuable trade asset, don’t get me wrong. But not nearly as valuable as a top 4 pick at the time he was dealt. The math on that has changed considerably due to his play this past season. In 2019 it was a legit question whether or not the Lakers would have even resigned Ingram considering he might have received max offers. Now I think it is very clear that he is worth a rookie max contract and his value has appreciated significantly.

It's going to be interesting to see what Ingram can get on his next contract.

I think the Lakers tried to bring him along too slowly his rookie year. He showed improvement over the next 2 seasons, especially 2018-19, but he also missed 53 games over 2017-18 and 2018-19 which, combined with how skinny he is, leads to concerns that he's injury prone.

This year, before the shut down, he was looking like an all star and had played and started all 56 games, but as you point out, he's also about to be an RFA.

Ultimately, I think he will be an all star caliber player for the rest of his career, but if I were an NBA general manager, I'm not sure how much money I would want to bet on that.

dtgold88 · Jul 7, 2020

shopson67 said:
I don't know about that; is there anyone in this draft that's already as good as Ingram or guaranteed to be better in the future?

"the 4 from LA" are the 4 picks they received, not the players.

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