Pat Forde's realignment plan.

Deep Creek said:

Yeah, from 0% to 1%....if that.

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TCU, Utah, Louisville have all higher profile now than when they were MW or CUSA and went well beyond 1%

LawDawg said:

Not in the least. Bowl game under Richt with arguably our worst team in 20 years.

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all im saying is given the right circumstances with a change of how things work those schools could become more regular higher profile opponent. maybe not all of them but if you give them more to offer recruits than a conference title and a legit shot at the playoff then more higher ranked recruits will start picking UCF or USF or Houston or Cincinnati or Fresno than would have picked them before.

Olyduck said:

TCU, Utah, Louisville have all higher profile now than when they were MW or CUSA and went well beyond 1%

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...and yet none have played in the CFP or the old BCS. Then again, neither have a lot of old charter P5 members. Since the first year of the BCS in 1998, 71% of the ACC, 79% of the B1G, 80% of the Big 12, 75% of the PAC 12 and 57% of the SEC have never participated in a BCS/CFP college football playoff game. Only 20 teams (21 if you count ND) have done so in 22 years.

Here is a breakdown of P5 teams that have and have not played in either the BCS Championship game or a CFP semifinal game. Feel free to correct any mistakes...because I was shocked that the B1G only had three!

ACC -(Have Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Va Tech-as a member of the Big East)
Louisville
Wake Forest
Boston College
Syracuse
NC State
Virginia
Pitt
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech

B1G - (Have Ohio State, Nebraska, Michigan State)
Penn State
Michigan
Indiana
Maryland
Rutgers
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Illinois
Purdue
Northwestern

Big 12 - (Have, Oklahoma, Texas)
Baylor
Ok State
K-State
Iowa State
West Virginia
TCU
Texas Tech
Kansas

Pac 12 - (Have, USC, Oregon, Washington)
Oregon State
Cal
Washington State
Stanford
Utah
UCLA
Az State
Colorado
Arizona

SEC - (Have, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida)
Kentucky
Mizzou
South Carolina
Vanderbilt
Texas A&M
Ole Miss
Miss State
Arkansas

PhilSimms11 said:

Okay, I made some alterations. I'm not sure how the Big 8 operates without Oklahoma and Texas.

--I moved No Texas and SMU from SWC to C-USA.
--Moved Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St to the SWC.
--Moved Arkansas from SWC to Big 8. Big 8 now with 8 teams (the fewest).
--Put No Illinois and Buffalo back in the MAC, giving it 12 teams (the most).
--Created the ECC (East Coast Conference) from many of the 10 teams I originally relegated.
--Promoted James Madison to the G-6.
--Kept San Jose St relegated.
--Tweaked some G-6 conferences as well.
--P-7 = 68; G-6 = 62

ACC (10)
Clemson
Duke
Florida St
GA Tech
Maryland
NC St
No Carolina
So Carolina
Virginia
Wake Forest

Big 8 (8)
Arkansas
BYU
Colorado
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St
Missouri
Utah

Big Ten (10)
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan St
Minnesota
Northwestern
Ohio St
Purdue
Wisconsin

Big East (10)
Boston College
Cincinnati
Louisville
Miami (FL)
Notre Dame
Penn St
Pitt
Syracuse
VA Tech
West Virginia

Pac-10 (10)
Arizona
Arizona St
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Washington
Washington St

SEC (10)
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
LSU
Mississippi St
Ole Miss
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SWC (10)
Baylor
Houston
Memphis
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
TCU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
-------------
AAC (10)
App St
Army
Marshall
Mid Tennessee
Navy
So Florida
Temple
UAB
UCF
W Kentucky

C-USA (10)
Arkansas St
LA Tech
New Mexico
No Texas
Rice
SMU
So Miss
Tulane
Tulsa
UTSA

ECC (10)
Charlotte
East Carolina
FAU
FIU
James Madison
Liberty
Old Dominion
Rutgers
UConn
UMass

MAC (12)
Akron
Ball St
Buffalo
Bowling Green
C Michigan
E Michigan
Kent St
Miami (OH)
No Illinois
Ohio
Toledo
W Michigan

Sun Belt (10)
Co Carolina
GA Southern
Georgia St
Louisiana
New Mexico St
So Alabama
Texas St
Troy
UL-Monroe
UTEP

WAC (10)
Air Force
Boise St
Colorado St
Fresno St
Hawaii
Nevada
San Diego St
UNLV
Utah St
Wyoming

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My thoughts were more of a leave your power 7 alone and move the Group of 5 around and add a conference.
to be honest i made changes to all but i still think they stay pretty solid


East Coast(10)
Appalachian State
Army
Coastal Carolina
East Carolina
Navy
Old Dominion
Temple
Rutgers
UConn
UMass


C-USA (10)
Ball State
Charlotte
GA Southern
Georgia St
Liberty
Mid Tennessee
Marshall
No Illinois
Tulsa
W Kentucky

MAC (10)
Akron
Bowling Green
Buffalo
C Michigan
E Michigan
Kent St
Miami (OH)
Ohio
Toledo
W Michigan

Sun Belt (10)
Arkansas State
FAU
FIU
So Alabama
SO Miss
Tulane
Troy
UAB
UCF
USF


WAC (10)
Boise St
Colorado St
Fresno St
Hawaii
Nevada
San Diego St
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah St
Wyoming


American (10)
Air Force
Louisiana
La Tech
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Rice
Texas State
UL Monroe
UTEP
UTSA

Deep Creek said:

...and yet none have played in the CFP or the old BCS. Then again, neither have a lot of old charter P5 members. Since the first year of the BCS in 1998, 71% of the ACC, 79% of the B1G, 80% of the Big 12, 75% of the PAC 12 and 57% of the SEC have never participated in a BCS/CFP college football playoff game. Only 20 teams (21 if you count ND) have done so in 22 years.

Here is a breakdown of P5 teams that have and have not played in either the BCS Championship game or a CFP semifinal game. Feel free to correct any mistakes...because I was shocked that the B1G only had three!

ACC -(Have Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Va Tech-as a member of the Big East)
Louisville
Wake Forest
Boston College
Syracuse
NC State
Virginia
Pitt
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech

B1G - (Have Ohio State, Nebraska, Michigan State)
Penn State
Michigan
Indiana
Maryland
Rutgers
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Illinois
Purdue
Northwestern

Big 12 - (Have, Oklahoma, Texas)
Baylor
Ok State
K-State
Iowa State
West Virginia
TCU
Texas Tech
Kansas

Pac 12 - (Have, USC, Oregon, Washington)
Oregon State
Cal
Washington State
Stanford
Utah
UCLA
Az State
Colorado
Arizona

SEC - (Have, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida)
Kentucky
Mizzou
South Carolina
Vanderbilt
Texas A&M
Ole Miss
Miss State
Arkansas

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TCU Utah and Louisville all had BCS wins
TCU and Utah have both been on the verge of the playoff. closer than 80+% of the P5 schools. Louisville was at 12-1 in the final season before the playoff. Probably would have been in consideration.

Olyduck said:

all im saying is given the right circumstances with a change of how things work those schools could become more regular higher profile opponent. maybe not all of them but if you give them more to offer recruits than a conference title and a legit shot at the playoff then more higher ranked recruits will start picking UCF or USF or Houston or Cincinnati or Fresno than would have picked them before.

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Not my team's responsibility to build up other schools. P5 is fine by me. They've worked 100+ years to get here, we don't have to share our largess with the have nots. Watering down all of NCAA doesn't make it better in my opinion. A bunch of conferences that no one would give a shit about.

LawDawg said:

Not my team's responsibility to build up other schools. P5 is fine by me. They've worked 100+ years to get here, we don't have to share our largess with the have nots. Watering down all of NCAA doesn't make it better in my opinion. A bunch of conferences that no one would give a shit about.

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Thats why he mixed them with P5 and G5. a bigger pool of teams woulndt spark interest? why not? it works in every other sport.

Deep Creek said:

I wish you were right...because I'm definitely a traditionalist. I used to think the same way but money is the almighty driver now.

Texas and Texas A&M first played each other in 1894. That 100+ years of tradition got ditched and kicked straight ass to the curb. How's that tradition working now?

And I never thought I would see the day that Oklahoma and Nebraska wouldn't play each other every year.

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Those are/were small, incremental moves that happen. That in no way leads to the type of mass overhaul that is discussed in this thread. The Haves will not give up what they have. They will split off first, forming their own league. I assure you UGA doesn't care about Georgia Southern or Georgia State, let alone a bunch of Florida directional schools. College football is great for the traditional reasons you and I support. Spreading the talent around, and watering down quality everywhere is not happening.

Also, let's not forget these conferences also represent academics, at least in the B1G, ACC and PAC. For example, the AAC is huge for the B1G ... no chance they are going to change their conference affiliations for schools that aren't even close to AAC eligibility.

I get that this is all in fun. But, at the end of the day, these ideas are so absurd and removed from reality that they are total nonsense. Discussing how UT and the Big12 might breakup would be worth a discussion. Discussing what the G5 is going to do in light of COVID19 would be interesting (they are likely to shrink who they play and how far they travel). Changes to CFP are great. But this stuff is just dumb to me.

LawDawg said:

Not my team's responsibility to build up other schools. P5 is fine by me. They've worked 100+ years to get here, we don't have to share our largess with the have nots. Watering down all of NCAA doesn't make it better in my opinion. A bunch of conferences that no one would give a shit about.

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you say it like Group of 5 schools havent been playing football for 100 years either. some schools were able to find success early some later. doesnt mean that G5 schools cant ever.

Olyduck said:

Thats why he mixed them with P5 and G5. a bigger pool of teams woulndt spark interest? why not? it works in every other sport.

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Because 7 of the 11 games proposed in our new conference would suck. The idea is less suck games, not more. I would lose interest in the college football that is proposed here.

Also, money talks. The G5 have nothing to offer. Nothing. Small stadiums, no fans, no TV contracts. They literally have nothing to offer a conference like the SEC. I found this with a quick Google search ... comparing LSU and UCF football, the G5 you like to reference as being one of the top G5 schools:

Total football revenue

LSU reported $86.2 million in football-related revenue, which is nearly $20 million more than UCF brings in for its total athletic department revenue. UCF reported $21.9 million in revenue directly attributed to football.

Ticket revenue

One of the two categories where LSU eclipsed UCF in football-related revenue was ticket sales. The Knights reported $3.3 million, which doesn't include any contributions that were made (see below for that), while the Tigers raked in $36.2 million. Keep in mind the stadium capacities greatly differ, with LSU holding over 102,000 fans, while UCF's stadium is just over 45,000.

Contributions

LSU reported $24 million in football-related contributions. Meanwhile, the Knights reported $6.6 million. Contributions are generally greatly influenced by not only the demand for tickets but also the quantity of premium seating options, along with the varying levels of premium seating available.

There is no reason the Haves are going to do anything to help the Have Nots. If UCF is the best, I'd hate to see the comparisons to the worst.

Olyduck said:

you say it like Group of 5 schools havent been playing football for 100 years either. some schools were able to find success early some later. doesnt mean that G5 schools cant ever.

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To the contrary, on a number of occasions I have specifically stated that P5 teams have been playing for 100 years. That's exactly why the P5 doesn't care about the G5. If the G5 can get to the point that they are as good as the P5, great. Then we can talk. Until then, the P5 just don't give a shit, and there is no reason for them to do so.

Deep Creek said:

I know all that. That's why I said they provide something for hoops and olympic sports. And some are charter members. But those big ticket schools pay the freight whether the lower level P5s admit it or not. And the freight payers are willing to subsidize them to keep them in the conferences for reasons you stated. But, the freight payers would make it fine without them.

Cold hard fact is the networks are willing to fork over MORE money to conferences in order to broadcast games like Ohio State vs Northwestern as well as Ohio State vs Michigan. Indiana vs Northwestern is just content filler for the networks. Casual CFB fans in places outside the B1G don't care to watch the latter. They'll tune in if Ohio State is playing anyone though. Same for the SEC and other conferences. Casual CFB fans outside the southeast don't care to watch Miss State vs Kentucky. But, they'll tune in to watch both Bama vs Kentucky and Bama vs Miss State. (The CFP maniacs like ourselves will watch anything.)

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I agree with everything you typed. But, what you typed doesn't in anyway support the stupid conference realignment that is the subject of these threads. I think we may be talking past one another, and we likely agree.

PhilSimms11 said:

Is that a good thing?

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Unknown.

Olyduck said:

under Forde new system that chance would increase tho

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It wouldn’t. Even if by a miracle they made it to any playoff, they’d get blasted. There’s no reason they should be competing for the same title as they LSU team last year.

Olyduck said:

TCU Utah and Louisville all had BCS wins
TCU and Utah have both been on the verge of the playoff. closer than 80+% of the P5 schools. Louisville was at 12-1 in the final season before the playoff. Probably would have been in consideration.

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Hell, so does Boise and others. BCS wins outside the championship game sure. None of those were for a natty whatsoever.

I'm not knocking TCU, Utah or Louisville at all. Many are better than a lot of the bottom dwelling charter members of P5s. I'm just saying the pool of championship level teams is very, very shallow.

MAIZEandBLUE09 said:

It wouldn’t. Even if by a miracle they made it to any playoff, they’d get blasted. There’s no reason they should be competing for the same title as they LSU team last year.

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Why because you think thats what will happen?
we have seen time and time again where the team people think will win doesn't.
Last year LSU pretty much blasted everyone, that doesnt mean that will happen every year.

LawDawg said:

To the contrary, on a number of occasions I have specifically stated that P5 teams have been playing for 100 years. That's exactly why the P5 doesn't care about the G5. If the G5 can get to the point that they are as good as the P5, great. Then we can talk. Until then, the P5 just don't give a shit, and there is no reason for them to do so.

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but some of the G5 schools are proven to be constantly better than P5. I would take UCF, Boise, Houston year in and year out over Rutgers, Kansas, and right now as of late over Arkansas and Colorado. on given years those teams have beat Oregon, Stanford, Georgia, Oklahoma as well as others

Blackshirts BLVD said:

This is a conference of hate.

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man.. the horns down hand gesture would be the official sign of the conference.

LawDawg said:

Because 7 of the 11 games proposed in our new conference would suck. The idea is less suck games, not more. I would lose interest in the college football that is proposed here.

Also, money talks. The G5 have nothing to offer. Nothing. Small stadiums, no fans, no TV contracts. They literally have nothing to offer a conference like the SEC. I found this with a quick Google search ... comparing LSU and UCF football, the G5 you like to reference as being one of the top G5 schools:

Total football revenue

LSU reported $86.2 million in football-related revenue, which is nearly $20 million more than UCF brings in for its total athletic department revenue. UCF reported $21.9 million in revenue directly attributed to football.

Ticket revenue

One of the two categories where LSU eclipsed UCF in football-related revenue was ticket sales. The Knights reported $3.3 million, which doesn't include any contributions that were made (see below for that), while the Tigers raked in $36.2 million. Keep in mind the stadium capacities greatly differ, with LSU holding over 102,000 fans, while UCF's stadium is just over 45,000.

Contributions

LSU reported $24 million in football-related contributions. Meanwhile, the Knights reported $6.6 million. Contributions are generally greatly influenced by not only the demand for tickets but also the quantity of premium seating options, along with the varying levels of premium seating available.

There is no reason the Haves are going to do anything to help the Have Nots. If UCF is the best, I'd hate to see the comparisons to the worst.

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7 of the 11 would suck on the surface but there is no reason to believe that the other 4 would be that much better or that the 7 will in fact suck.
as mentioned before UCF has beat UGA before and the other time they played UGA only won by 1 point.
USF has beat Miami and FSU in the past.

Your assumption that only Florida, Miami, Florida State and GT would be worth watching while Florida has destroyed FSU the past few games and before that you 1 out of 5 that was remotely close while FSU was on top.
and no one outside of Georgia probably thought the UGA vs GT games were worth watching the last 3 seasons.

Olyduck said:

but some of the G5 schools are proven to be constantly better than P5. I would take UCF, Boise, Houston year in and year out over Rutgers, Kansas, and right now as of late over Arkansas and Colorado. on given years those teams have beat Oregon, Stanford, Georgia, Oklahoma as well as others

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As I've pointed out, that's not how it works. I went to Vandy undergrad. We have zero chance of winning the SEC, let alone the NC. We've been in the SEC forever. We aren't getting kicked to the curb. We provide balance in the SEC for football, have historically been good in basketball, and are best in the SEC at baseball and women's bowling (I wish I was kidding). The conferences don't need other low end teams to balance the conference. And no conference wants to have too many great teams. The SEC has the Big 6 - AU, UA, UGA, UTjr, LSU and UF. We have some teams that are decent from time to time - Mizzou, TAMU, USCjr, Ole Miss, MSU and even Arky until recently. Then we have Vandy and Ky. Vandy is the flagship academic school, and Ky is great at basketball. All the teams are good at baseball, and most get good at hoops from time to time. We aren't going to replace our bottom 8 with other teams that would be bottom 8 or worse.

I would also point out that if you look at money, the P5 teams you mention do far better money wise than do UCF, BSU, and Houston. Sorry, money talks.