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Athlon's Preseason Top 25

Shanemansj13

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I already had you guys high up there in my own ranking, but come on man. Daniels wasn't good enough to start for a middling team in the Pac-12. He got beat out by a true freshman, which is why he transferred.

Just bc he couldn't beat out another QB doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to be very good or great. Justin Fields is a perfect example. I mean maybe he didn't like the coach, scheme fit, the school...a lot of factors but any top prospect wants to play and with the transfer portal we are seeing it more and more. The point is...it certainly doesn't mean he isn't good enough bc Slovis took his starting job.
 

navamind

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you have doubts a team that held 8 teams under 20 can hold teams under 20?
you think a team that only managed 24 is gonna put up 36 and you dont think a team that put up 56 can out score them?

Seriously. They were 9th in the country in points allowed per game. Even great defenses are occasionally going to give up 20+ points in this offense-driven era. Ohio State was 4th in P/G and they gave up 20+ in 5 games. Iowa and Utah both gave up 20+ in four games and they finished 5th and 6th. Florida gave up 20+ in six games and finished 7th.
 

socaljim242

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I actually agree with this. Daniels was not good in his season at the helm. Granted he was a freshman and USC sucked in general that year, but that was also largely due to his subpar play in a weaker Power 5 conference in a bad division. I’d be surprised if he ever starts at Georgia even after Newman leaves. Speaking of Newman that’s a bad ass QB UGA landed. He’ll have tremendous success. Too bad he’ll only be there for one year.
Wrong. That season had little if anything to do with his play and his abilities. First year QB who should have been a senior in High School. Bad O line and new offensive coordinator so even returning receivers had a new system to learn.
 

Chewbaccer

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Is Brenton Cox really the only 5 star on Florida’s roster?
 

Olyduck

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Seriously. They were 9th in the country in points allowed per game. Even great defenses are occasionally going to give up 20+ points in this offense-driven era. Ohio State was 4th in P/G and they gave up 20+ in 5 games. Iowa and Utah both gave up 20+ in four games and they finished 5th and 6th. Florida gave up 20+ in six games and finished 7th.
Thats what im saying Oregon gave up 20+ in 6 games. 5 of the 6 were top 50 in scoring offense. 3 top 30.
 

navamind

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Thats what im saying Oregon gave up 20+ in 6 games. 5 of the 6 were top 50 in scoring offense. 3 top 30.

I know, I was reiterating your point. I think Oregon had one of the best defenses in the country and I see little reason to think it won't be again this season.
 

Boise4Life

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Wrong. That season had little if anything to do with his play and his abilities. First year QB who should have been a senior in High School. Bad O line and new offensive coordinator so even returning receivers had a new system to learn.

When I watched him play I thought he struggled. And the numbers were poor. 14 TDs to 10 INTs and 5 wins all season long in a bad Power 5 division. I’d be stunned to see him become the starter for a SEC program as powerful as Georgia but I guess time will tell. You got a good one in Kedon Slovis though. He went to HS a couple of miles from my house. That school puts out some ballers and pumps out stud QB after stud QB.
 

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It's not right, that chart is a joke. Not the part about there only being 8 blue bloods, it probably got that part right. And it's not even because Minnesota ISN'T among the Top 8/blue bloods on the list, although his 30 deep list, they should be on THAT list, but it's a joke because programs like Wisconsin and VT AND WEST VIRGINIA are on there.


The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up the high pt scorer in the entire NFL 10 times by 4 different players in 4 different decades?

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up as NFL All-Decade players 10 times in 6 different decades, more than any other school that I am aware of, as I checked after the 2000s all-Decade team, not after the 2010s team came out.



Looking at the teams on that list,
UMn has SIX Recognized Titles & 4-6 Poll Era Titles(34 AP & 35 UPI polls make it 6 for UMn), and UMn has a

1-0 record vs Bama,
1-0 record vs Clemson. Clemson has just 3 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Auburn. Auburn has just 2 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Texas. UT has just 5 Poll Era Titles and 4 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Ark. Ark has just 1 recognized Title
1-0 record vs GT. GT has just 1 Poll Era Title and 4 Recognized Titles
33-25-2 rcrd vs Nebraska
10-7 record vs Washington
9-3 record vs Pitt. Pitt has just 2 Poll Era Titles.
2-1 record vs UCLA. UCLA has just 1 Poll Era Title & only 1 Recognized Title.
62-49-2 rcrd vs Iowa. Iowa has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.
1-1-1 rcrd vs Stanford. Stanford has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.

That's 12 of the 30 teams on that list. UMn's cumulative record vs those 12 blue bloods & potential blue bloods is

123-86-5

61-37-3 not including Iowa.


We never played Geo, LSU, Flor, A&M, FSU, Miami, VT or WVU.

That brings it to TWENTY. 20 of the 30 teams on that list either never played the Gophers or do NOT have a winning record vs the Gophers. Of the teams on that list, who have not played Minnesota, lets compare # of Titles

UMn = 6 Recognized Titles. 4/6 Poll Era Titles.
LSU = 5 Recognized Titles. 4 Poll Era Titles.
Mia = 5 Recognized Titles. 5 Poll Era Titles.
Flor = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
FSU = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
VTch = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.
WVU = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.

Michigan, just for those who are interested? Just TWO poll Era Titles. Pitt also has only 2 Poll Era Titles.
Col, Geo, GT, A&M, UCLA all only have 1 Poll Era Title.


Of the 10 remaining teams, Tennessee has just a 0-1 record vs UMn, and just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.
PSU has just a 6-9 advantage over Minnesota in head to head, & PSU has just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.

OSU & Mich have massive advantages over the Gophers, as does Notre Dame and USC.

That leaves Oklahoma, of the 8 legit Blue Bloods, with a decent advantage over the Gophers, but I must remind you all, it was a former Gopher that made Oklahoma into what they are, Bud Wilkinson led them to their first three Titles.

MSU, one of the few I haven't mentioned yet, has some advantages over the Gophers, mainly head to head, but MSU hardly existed before WW2, so that head to head thing would probably be in the Gophers favor had they played regularly before WW2, and it was a former Gopher, Biggie Munn who made them what they became. So there is that.


Leaving only 2 teams, 1 I am not sure, probably not important, the other is Wisconsin. We were tied 60-60-1 going into 2019. And UW has ZERO Titles of any kind, they don't even claim one.



So, not claiming in any way that UMn is a blue blood, but they absolutely belong on that Top 30 list. And I know exactly which team they could replace, Virginia Tech.
 

Across The Field

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It's not right, that chart is a joke. Not the part about there only being 8 blue bloods, it probably got that part right. And it's not even because Minnesota ISN'T among the Top 8/blue bloods on the list, although his 30 deep list, they should be on THAT list, but it's a joke because programs like Wisconsin and VT AND WEST VIRGINIA are on there.


The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up the high pt scorer in the entire NFL 10 times by 4 different players in 4 different decades?

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up as NFL All-Decade players 10 times in 6 different decades, more than any other school that I am aware of, as I checked after the 2000s all-Decade team, not after the 2010s team came out.



Looking at the teams on that list,
UMn has SIX Recognized Titles & 4-6 Poll Era Titles(34 AP & 35 UPI polls make it 6 for UMn), and UMn has a

1-0 record vs Bama,
1-0 record vs Clemson. Clemson has just 3 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Auburn. Auburn has just 2 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Texas. UT has just 5 Poll Era Titles and 4 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Ark. Ark has just 1 recognized Title
1-0 record vs GT. GT has just 1 Poll Era Title and 4 Recognized Titles
33-25-2 rcrd vs Nebraska
10-7 record vs Washington
9-3 record vs Pitt. Pitt has just 2 Poll Era Titles.
2-1 record vs UCLA. UCLA has just 1 Poll Era Title & only 1 Recognized Title.
62-49-2 rcrd vs Iowa. Iowa has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.
1-1-1 rcrd vs Stanford. Stanford has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.

That's 12 of the 30 teams on that list. UMn's cumulative record vs those 12 blue bloods & potential blue bloods is

123-86-5

61-37-3 not including Iowa.


We never played Geo, LSU, Flor, A&M, FSU, Miami, VT or WVU.

That brings it to TWENTY. 20 of the 30 teams on that list either never played the Gophers or do NOT have a winning record vs the Gophers. Of the teams on that list, who have not played Minnesota, lets compare # of Titles

UMn = 6 Recognized Titles. 4/6 Poll Era Titles.
LSU = 5 Recognized Titles. 4 Poll Era Titles.
Mia = 5 Recognized Titles. 5 Poll Era Titles.
Flor = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
FSU = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
VTch = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.
WVU = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.

Michigan, just for those who are interested? Just TWO poll Era Titles. Pitt also has only 2 Poll Era Titles.
Col, Geo, GT, A&M, UCLA all only have 1 Poll Era Title.


Of the 10 remaining teams, Tennessee has just a 0-1 record vs UMn, and just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.
PSU has just a 6-9 advantage over Minnesota in head to head, & PSU has just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.

OSU & Mich have massive advantages over the Gophers, as does Notre Dame and USC.

That leaves Oklahoma, of the 8 legit Blue Bloods, with a decent advantage over the Gophers, but I must remind you all, it was a former Gopher that made Oklahoma into what they are, Bud Wilkinson led them to their first three Titles.

MSU, one of the few I haven't mentioned yet, has some advantages over the Gophers, mainly head to head, but MSU hardly existed before WW2, so that head to head thing would probably be in the Gophers favor had they played regularly before WW2, and it was a former Gopher, Biggie Munn who made them what they became. So there is that.


Leaving only 2 teams, 1 I am not sure, probably not important, the other is Wisconsin. We were tied 60-60-1 going into 2019. And UW has ZERO Titles of any kind, they don't even claim one.



So, not claiming in any way that UMn is a blue blood, but they absolutely belong on that Top 30 list. And I know exactly which team they could replace, Virginia Tech.
Who in the holy fuck do you think is gonna read all that?
 

navamind

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Who in the holy fuck do you think is gonna read all that?

Me trying to read that:

giphy-downsized-large.gif
 

socaljim242

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When I watched him play I thought he struggled. And the numbers were poor. 14 TDs to 10 INTs and 5 wins all season long in a bad Power 5 division. I’d be stunned to see him become the starter for a SEC program as powerful as Georgia but I guess time will tell. You got a good one in Kedon Slovis though. He went to HS a couple of miles from my house. That school puts out some ballers and pumps out stud QB after stud QB.

You need to take a few things into account. He had Tee Martin as an offensive coordiator. Love Tee, great guy ,great recruiter and was a decent position coach but as offensive coordinator he sucked. He was saved by Darnold the year before. Tees plays didn't work but Darnold would make something happen and the WRs would catch anything close. Another thing is he had possibly the worst center I've even seen at USC . Toa Lobendahn would snap it to the right ,to the left , over his head and at his ankles and JT would have to take his eyes off everything catch the bad snap and then look up and see that he's got no time to make reads. I'm serious , this is what he had to endure. Against Cal Toas bad snap literally cost USC the game. Most games he just made it almost impossible to have a rhythm but for a center to actually cost a team a game. That's something you can't have.
I'm totally happy with Slovis but before JT took to the portal every Trojan fan was hoping JT would stay because we know if Slovis went down JT would be fine as the starter.
Slovis was a 3 star so no one expected this. He's turned into a gem.
 
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outofyourmind

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The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.




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Wamu

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It's not right, that chart is a joke. Not the part about there only being 8 blue bloods, it probably got that part right. And it's not even because Minnesota ISN'T among the Top 8/blue bloods on the list, although his 30 deep list, they should be on THAT list, but it's a joke because programs like Wisconsin and VT AND WEST VIRGINIA are on there.


The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up the high pt scorer in the entire NFL 10 times by 4 different players in 4 different decades?

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up as NFL All-Decade players 10 times in 6 different decades, more than any other school that I am aware of, as I checked after the 2000s all-Decade team, not after the 2010s team came out.



Looking at the teams on that list,
UMn has SIX Recognized Titles & 4-6 Poll Era Titles(34 AP & 35 UPI polls make it 6 for UMn), and UMn has a

1-0 record vs Bama,
1-0 record vs Clemson. Clemson has just 3 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Auburn. Auburn has just 2 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Texas. UT has just 5 Poll Era Titles and 4 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Ark. Ark has just 1 recognized Title
1-0 record vs GT. GT has just 1 Poll Era Title and 4 Recognized Titles
33-25-2 rcrd vs Nebraska
10-7 record vs Washington
9-3 record vs Pitt. Pitt has just 2 Poll Era Titles.
2-1 record vs UCLA. UCLA has just 1 Poll Era Title & only 1 Recognized Title.
62-49-2 rcrd vs Iowa. Iowa has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.
1-1-1 rcrd vs Stanford. Stanford has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.

That's 12 of the 30 teams on that list. UMn's cumulative record vs those 12 blue bloods & potential blue bloods is

123-86-5

61-37-3 not including Iowa.


We never played Geo, LSU, Flor, A&M, FSU, Miami, VT or WVU.

That brings it to TWENTY. 20 of the 30 teams on that list either never played the Gophers or do NOT have a winning record vs the Gophers. Of the teams on that list, who have not played Minnesota, lets compare # of Titles

UMn = 6 Recognized Titles. 4/6 Poll Era Titles.
LSU = 5 Recognized Titles. 4 Poll Era Titles.
Mia = 5 Recognized Titles. 5 Poll Era Titles.
Flor = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
FSU = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
VTch = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.
WVU = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.

Michigan, just for those who are interested? Just TWO poll Era Titles. Pitt also has only 2 Poll Era Titles.
Col, Geo, GT, A&M, UCLA all only have 1 Poll Era Title.


Of the 10 remaining teams, Tennessee has just a 0-1 record vs UMn, and just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.
PSU has just a 6-9 advantage over Minnesota in head to head, & PSU has just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.

OSU & Mich have massive advantages over the Gophers, as does Notre Dame and USC.

That leaves Oklahoma, of the 8 legit Blue Bloods, with a decent advantage over the Gophers, but I must remind you all, it was a former Gopher that made Oklahoma into what they are, Bud Wilkinson led them to their first three Titles.

MSU, one of the few I haven't mentioned yet, has some advantages over the Gophers, mainly head to head, but MSU hardly existed before WW2, so that head to head thing would probably be in the Gophers favor had they played regularly before WW2, and it was a former Gopher, Biggie Munn who made them what they became. So there is that.


Leaving only 2 teams, 1 I am not sure, probably not important, the other is Wisconsin. We were tied 60-60-1 going into 2019. And UW has ZERO Titles of any kind, they don't even claim one.



So, not claiming in any way that UMn is a blue blood, but they absolutely belong on that Top 30 list. And I know exactly which team they could replace, Virginia Tech.

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Diego Roll Tide

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Just bc he couldn't beat out another QB doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to be very good or great. Justin Fields is a perfect example. I mean maybe he didn't like the coach, scheme fit, the school...a lot of factors but any top prospect wants to play and with the transfer portal we are seeing it more and more. The point is...it certainly doesn't mean he isn't good enough bc Slovis took his starting job.
It also doesn’t matter either way.

Jake Coker wasn’t good enough to beat our Winston at FSU, but he WAS good enough to win a CFP at Bama.

Chemistry matters, as does talent around you. Daniels will have a lot better supporting cast at UGA than he had at USC. If he fits in well in the system, he can be just fine on an NC-caliber team.
 
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