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MJ Kobe Lebron?

trojanfan12

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The NBA was trying to grow the game. Anything Jordan was the face of helped grow the game. So the NBA allowed hokey deals like that.

Today -- the NBA doesn't need it as much as they are popular around the world. That wasn't the case 30 years ago. But the guy who grew the popularity more than anyone in the history of the game was Jordan.

Yeah, I'm sure that's why they allowed the one the Lakers gave Magic.

No way anyone gets a contract like that now.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Yeah, I'm sure that's why they allowed the one the Lakers gave Magic.

No way anyone gets a contract like that now.

They allowed it for a little while in the NHL and the Red Wings were always giving out crazy contracts. 10 and 15 year contracts when the guy would be in his mid-40's when the contract ended.
If there is a loophole -- agents and GM's will find it.

David Robinson had a clause in his contract that said he had to be paid in between the #1 and #2 highest paid player in the NBA. So any time someone passed him, SA has to tear up his current contract and pay him the average of the #1 and #2 player.
 

tlance

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What liberties to take? You act like I made the story up and calling it BS. The Chicago Tribune was the one who first reported the story. And it was confirmed the NBA was going to allow it. So not sure what is BS? -- the Knicks offered Jordan $25 million.

This is why Jordan ended up with $30 million from Chicago.

Well, first you got the year wrong. And that does make a really big difference. Would have been a lot easier to leave before the 72 win season than after.

Second, you said the Knicks offered him $25 million, which wasn’t true. The Knicks offered him $12 million and Shereton offered the rest. Which is insane that the league would allow that. They surely would not today.

Lastly, this looks like a straight leverage play by MJ to get more money out of the Bulls.
 

Robotech

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Lastly, this looks like a straight leverage play by MJ to get more money out of the Bulls.

Yeah, and the article makes it sound like that Jordan's agent misrepresented the Knicks' offer.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Well, first you got the year wrong. And that does make a really big difference. Would have been a lot easier to leave before the 72 win season than after.

Second, you said the Knicks offered him $25 million, which wasn’t true. The Knicks offered him $12 million and Shereton offered the rest. Which is insane that the league would allow that. They surely would not today.

Lastly, this looks like a straight leverage play by MJ to get more money out of the Bulls.

One, you are bringing up the year now because you are grasping at straws over your remark about me making up BS. As now I'm guessing you used google and saw exactly what I said was true.

Two, yes -- the Knicks offered him $25 million. You want to argue semantics, go right ahead. I didn't say they offered him $25 million against the cap, as no one talks like that. It was still the owner of the Knicks paying him.

Three, Sam Smith is the one who wrote the article in the Tribune about the Knicks offer and how they were going to pull it off. The NBA ok'd the offer, so if it were a ploy, Jordan may be the GOAT in contract negotiations too, as he got the NBA commissioner involved.
 

tlance

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One, you are bringing up the year now because you are grasping at straws over your remark about me making up BS. As now I'm guessing you used google and saw exactly what I said was true.

Two, yes -- the Knicks offered him $25 million. You want to argue semantics, go right ahead. I didn't say they offered him $25 million against the cap, as no one talks like that. It was still the owner of the Knicks paying him.

Three, Sam Smith is the one who wrote the article in the Tribune about the Knicks offer and how they were going to pull it off. The NBA ok'd the offer, so if it were a ploy, Jordan may be the GOAT in contract negotiations too, as he got the NBA commissioner involved.

Grasping at straws?

Like I said, you took some liberties and twisted facts in your first post.
 

flyerhawk

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Yeah, I'm sure that's why they allowed the one the Lakers gave Magic.

No way anyone gets a contract like that now.

Stern putting his fingers on the scales to benefit a big market team was not exactly an unheard of event.

But regardless, staying with the Bulls still made more sense for Jordan than leaving. The Knicks did, however, hasten the demise of that Bulls dynasty.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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You are so full of shit.

The salary cap in 1996 was $23 million.

Patrick Ewing made 18.7 million that year and the Knicks were well over the cap.

They could not have offered Jordan more than whatever the min or MLE was in those times.

Do you always just make stuff up when you lose an argument?

I figured I'd bump this as the salary cap barely changed.

It would have been much easier for you to just say -- I didn't know the Knicks made a huge offer to try and sign Jordan away from the Bulls.
 

tlance

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I figured I'd bump this as the salary cap barely changed.

It would have been much easier for you to just say -- I didn't know the Knicks made a huge offer to try and sign Jordan away from the Bulls.

Dude. You clearly got the year wrong and neglected to mention that more than half the money was coming from a corporation.

So, you backed yourself up enough to prove that you weren’t making it up. But those are 2 big errors.

And if you believe this was anything more than a leverage play by MJ, then I have some valuable ocean front property in Iowa that might interest you.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Dude. You clearly got the year wrong and neglected to mention that more than half the money was coming from a corporation.

So, you backed yourself up enough to prove that you weren’t making it up. But those are 2 big errors.

And if you believe this was anything more than a leverage play by MJ, then I have some valuable ocean front property in Iowa that might interest you.

The salary cap barely changed in those days. They were offering almost as much as the full salary cap. So by mistaking the year, it changes little.

Also -- the Knicks made the offer and had it ok'd by the NBA. I didn't realize I needed to spell out how they were going to do it.

It'd be much easier if you just said -- you know what, I didn't know the Knicks had tried to make an offer to get Jordan. Instead of trying to justify your comment saying I was making stuff up.
 

dtgold88

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Or I just choose to spend my time not playing Groundhog Day with you.

seems a bit wiser to accept the players and coaches and people’s opinions around the bulls org. But you can create a Krause coup all you want lol have at it
Accept their opinions? You mean from guys like MJ who said he never asked that Thomas not be on Olympic Team when clearly he did?

Besides, this is not an opinion (unless you think Phillip lied)....Krause said BEFORE season Phil wont be back. AFTER the season he was asked back. Phillip declined.

Also not opinion if not for Krause and his belief in Tex's system (and Collins lack of belief) Phillip is never hired by the Bulls.

But keep blaming it all on the dead guy if you want who only helped build a 6-time title winner for ya.
 

dtgold88

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This is an assumption that is impossible to prove.

First, as @dtgold88 stated, he didn’t need to leave because he had a good young core around him by the time he could have left. He signed an 8 year extension in ‘88.

By the time that expired, the Bulls had 1 3 titles and he had already retired once.

Jordan literally had no reason to leave. Under different scenario with different rules, you never know.

One thing I do know for sure though, if players back then had the same free agency rules as players today, it is 100% certain that more stars would have changed teams.
Your last comment is the main reason I believe MJ never left.
 

dtgold88

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I said in that era it didn't happen. Even when the CBA changed -- it didn't happen much at all.

Then the Celtics with Allen, Garnett and Pierce happened, then Lebron, Wade, Bosh, then it became commonplace for superstars demanding trades and giving lists of teams they would agree to go to, etc.

The really don't see the rivalries of the past as players don't stay on teams long enough.
we agree...but the thing is the CBA didn't change in time to see if guys like Magic, MJ, Bird, etc. might have left. Of course, they never really needed to as they were winning titles. But maybe Malone, Ewing, etc?
 

SJ76

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Accept their opinions? You mean from guys like MJ who said he never asked that Thomas not be on Olympic Team when clearly he did?

Besides, this is not an opinion (unless you think Phillip lied)....Krause said BEFORE season Phil wont be back. AFTER the season he was asked back. Phillip declined.

Also not opinion if not for Krause and his belief in Tex's system (and Collins lack of belief) Phillip is never hired by the Bulls.

But keep blaming it all on the dead guy if you want who only helped build a 6-time title winner for ya.


Lol it’s not me blaming anyone man. But I love your “it’s just words” from Krause. That’s hilarious. If my boss is a pain in the ass and I’m underpaid compared to my peers and I’ve been at the top of my industry for years... he tells me this my last year after pissing off many of the players As well and just being a douche?? Cmon man you’re reaching so far here.

Groundhog Day again huh? You need to get to work
 

dtgold88

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You are chasing your tail.

Michael the player has nothing to do with Michael the GM/Owner.

Did Magic Johnson's ability to play pg mean diddly squat when he became a Coach?

How about Trajon Langdon?

Stop trying to move the goalposts.

Doesn't work on me.

Not everyone can do what Larry Bird, Jerry West, Clint Eastwood can.

It's very hard to be a top talent and a top TALENT EVALUATOR.
We are talking about Krause having to rebuild the Bulls which he had already done a couple times with completely different rosters other than MJ/Pippen. Of course it matters and the goal posts stayed firm.

Maybe Krause knows what it takes since he had done it and MJ and Phillip did not? To be fair, no one knew they didn't yet as they had not become massive failures in that regard at the time.
 

tlance

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The salary cap barely changed in those days. They were offering almost as much as the full salary cap. So by mistaking the year, it changes little.

Also -- the Knicks made the offer and had it ok'd by the NBA. I didn't realize I needed to spell out how they were going to do it.

It'd be much easier if you just said -- you know what, I didn't know the Knicks had tried to make an offer to get Jordan. Instead of trying to justify your comment saying I was making stuff up.

I already admitted you didn’t make it up.

Whether or not the Knicks made a competitive offer, it doesn’t change the facts. The salary cap with the Bird rights rule was stacked in tremendous favor of the home team. The Bulls were literally able to pay more than the entire cap to keep MJ.

The original point was that the structure was vastly different than it is today, so it is an apples to oranges comparison when looking at players today who leave via free agency against players from before who didn’t.
 

dtgold88

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But, why didn't LeBron stay and face the challenge?

Why did he quit on the Cavs?

I guess he wasn't up for the challenge?

Ummmmm, why is it relevant?

Lmfao

Dude, we are in a Jordan vs Kobe vs LeBron thread.

I am a self-proclaimed Jordan Fangirl and you are trying to use this as a con against Jordan.

it's a ridiculously weak argument on your part, considering LeBron has quit on all his previous 3 teams after losing in the Finals.

Jordan left after WINNING.

So, I'm extremely confused by which guy wasn't up for the challenge?

Well, no.....I'm not confused.

The answer is neither guy leaving is a issue.

They both have a right to choose their place of employ and to bow out of a situation they dee m toxic.

We don't have to agree with their reasoning.
Talk about moving the goal posts. Never mind your "logic" is greatly flawed. Not up for the challenge? Lebron left the Cavs to move to what at the time was a lesser team and would have to face what looked like arguably the best team ever throughout his deal before he could even get to another Finals.

And just to set the record straight for you, Lebron left the Cavs the first time after an ECF loss.
 

dtgold88

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The salary cap barely changed in those days. They were offering almost as much as the full salary cap. So by mistaking the year, it changes little.

Also -- the Knicks made the offer and had it ok'd by the NBA. I didn't realize I needed to spell out how they were going to do it.

It'd be much easier if you just said -- you know what, I didn't know the Knicks had tried to make an offer to get Jordan. Instead of trying to justify your comment saying I was making stuff up.
Maybe they made the offer but it was 25% less than the Bulls offered. You think MJ was taking an $8 million haircut after playing for so little for so long?
 
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