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MJ Kobe Lebron?

Wamu

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@trojanfan12

We can't post pictures anymore?

I keep getting a X.

0_ik5_xdp2bxtsrurs..0.png

Maybe you don't know what the hell you're doing?

giphy (3).gif
 

trojanfan12

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@trojanfan12

We can't post pictures anymore?

I keep getting a X.

0_ik5_xdp2bxtsrurs..0.png

It seems to be some pictures and not others. Earlier today, I tried to post a gif, but it wouldn't post.

Posted the gif that was literally right next to it and it posted fine.

I'll see what I can find out.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Jordan would have left millions on the table if he tried to change teams back then.

Today, players can get paid HUGE amounts of money no matter where they play. There is a perk for some players to stay with their team but it really isn't enough to incentivize them to stay.

He could have left before the 96 season. The Knicks offered him $25+ million -- Over $5 more than the 2nd highest paid player and $10 million more than the 3rd highest paid player.

He could have left to play with Ewing, Charles Oakley, Allan Houston, Larry Johnson, etc. in New York. That's a team that had averaged 55 wins over a 5 year period without Jordan.

Instead, he gave Chicago a chance to beat the offer and they did, giving him $30 million.

So Jordan had his chance to go chase more titles with another team and he stayed in Chicago.

Was it an option for every player to do that? No.
 

tlance

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He could have left before the 96 season. The Knicks offered him $25+ million -- Over $5 more than the 2nd highest paid player and $10 million more than the 3rd highest paid player.

He could have left to play with Ewing, Charles Oakley, Allan Houston, Larry Johnson, etc. in New York. That's a team that had averaged 55 wins over a 5 year period without Jordan.

Instead, he gave Chicago a chance to beat the offer and they did, giving him $30 million.

So Jordan had his chance to go chase more titles with another team and he stayed in Chicago.

Was it an option for every player to do that? No.

You are so full of shit.

The salary cap in 1996 was $23 million.

Patrick Ewing made 18.7 million that year and the Knicks were well over the cap.

They could not have offered Jordan more than whatever the min or MLE was in those times.

Do you always just make stuff up when you lose an argument?
 

flyerhawk

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He could have left before the 96 season. The Knicks offered him $25+ million -- Over $5 more than the 2nd highest paid player and $10 million more than the 3rd highest paid player.

He could have left to play with Ewing, Charles Oakley, Allan Houston, Larry Johnson, etc. in New York. That's a team that had averaged 55 wins over a 5 year period without Jordan.

Instead, he gave Chicago a chance to beat the offer and they did, giving him $30 million.

So Jordan had his chance to go chase more titles with another team and he stayed in Chicago.

Was it an option for every player to do that? No.

So he could have left after winning 4 titles, winning 72 games and being the reigning champion but instead chose to stay and take the biggest contract offer available? What rational human being would actually choose to take the Knicks offer?
 

TrustMeIamRight

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flyerhawk

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You are so full of shit.

The salary cap in 1996 was $23 million.

Patrick Ewing made 18.7 million that year and the Knicks were well over the cap.

They could not have offered Jordan more than whatever the min or MLE was in those times.

Do you always just make stuff up when you lose an argument?

In fairness, the offer was made by the Knicks and it was pretty clearly a massive cap violation. They apparently were going to pay him a large chunk via Sheraton commercials. It's unclear whether the league would have actually approved the contract.

But, honestly, there was just no reason for Jordan to take that offer other than pure disdain for Jerry Krause. The Bulls were arguably the greatest team of ALL TIME in 1996 and he was being offered a contract for MORE money by the Bulls.

The problem with arguing counter-factuals is that you can't really prove them. In the 90s, stars only left their own team when they were either fully washed or close to it. There were a few exceptions like Shaq but generally they stayed with their teams because it leaving would incur a huge financial hit for the player.

Ultimately, the notion that players are somehow more greedy or less pure than players in the past is complete horseshit revisionist history.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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So he could have left after winning 4 titles, winning 72 games and being the reigning champion but instead chose to stay and take the biggest contract offer available? What rational human being would actually choose to take the Knicks offer?

It was before the 1996 season. He came back at the end of the 1995 season.
 

tlance

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flyerhawk

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It was before the 1996 season. He came back at the end of the 1995 season.

The offer was made in the offseason of 1996 after the 95-96 season when the Bulls won 72 games. So it was made before the 96-97 season which was the season after the 72 win season.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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In fairness, the offer was made by the Knicks and it was pretty clearly a massive cap violation. They apparently were going to pay him a large chunk via Sheraton commercials. It's unclear whether the league would have actually approved the contract.

But, honestly, there was just no reason for Jordan to take that offer other than pure disdain for Jerry Krause. The Bulls were arguably the greatest team of ALL TIME in 1996 and he was being offered a contract for MORE money by the Bulls.

The problem with arguing counter-factuals is that you can't really prove them. In the 90s, stars only left their own team when they were either fully washed or close to it. There were a few exceptions like Shaq but generally they stayed with their teams because it leaving would incur a huge financial hit for the player.

Ultimately, the notion that players are somehow more greedy or less pure than players in the past is complete horseshit revisionist history.

Wrong. Not a salary cap violation. As long as it can be shown the player's value as a spokesman met the value offered to him -- it was legal and DID NOT count against the cap. In Jordan's case, he was worth more than what they were offering, as he was the most famous athlete in the world.

And the Bulls were looking to offer Jordan $18-20 million. Because of the Knicks offer, they upped it to $30 million.

And AGAIN, the offer from the Knicks was before the 1996 season, before the 4th championship, before the 72 wins.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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No, it was after.

Like I said before, the Knicks were way to far over the cap to offer anything close to that prior to ‘96.

Maybe my recollection is off. I thought it happened in the offseason of the year he came back out of retirement?
 

flyerhawk

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Wrong. Not a salary cap violation. As long as it can be shown the player's value as a spokesman met the value offered to him -- it was legal and DID NOT count against the cap. In Jordan's case, he was worth more than what they were offering, as he was the most famous athlete in the world.

And the Bulls were looking to offer Jordan $18-20 million. Because of the Knicks offer, they upped it to $30 million.

Well we can agree to disagree on whether the contract was legal. It was pretty clearly a cap avoidance contract.

And AGAIN, the offer from the Knicks was before the 1996 season, before the 4th championship, before the 72 wins.


Don't know what to tell you. The 72 win team was the 95-96 team. The 1996 offseason was after that season.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Well we can agree to disagree on whether the contract was legal. It was pretty clearly a cap avoidance contract.




Don't know what to tell you. The 72 win team was the 95-96 team. The 1996 offseason was after that season.

For the NBA in the 1990's, it wasn't cap avoidance as they wanted players as spokesperson to grow the game to larger audiences.

If you did it today? Yes, it'd be illegal, but you have to remember, the NBA didn't grow into what it has become today until Jordan and the Bulls came along and salaries started to rise as the popularity grew. I put a post up the other day -- Reinsdorf paid $16 million to buy the Bulls in 1984. They are worth $3.2 billion today.
upload_2020-5-25_18-21-57.jpeg
 

trojanfan12

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Well we can agree to disagree on whether the contract was legal. It was pretty clearly a cap avoidance contract.

I don't know (or care) a whole lot about the MJ/Knicks thing. But it is possible that while it would have been a "cap avoidance contract", it may have been a loophole that hadn't yet been closed.

In the 80's the Lakers signed Magic to a 25 year, $25 million dollar contract. Pretty sure that was cap avoidance as well.

Teams aren't allowed to do that anymore.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Yeah,

lots of liberties you took there.

the Knicks still couldn’t offer Jordan $25 million without help from the outside.

Not to mention, why would Jordan want to leave his team that just had the best season in NBA history for a declining core?

What liberties to take? You act like I made the story up and calling it BS. The Chicago Tribune was the one who first reported the story. And it was confirmed the NBA was going to allow it. So not sure what is BS? -- the Knicks offered Jordan $25 million.

This is why Jordan ended up with $30 million from Chicago.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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I don't know (or care) a whole lot about the MJ/Knicks thing. But it is possible that while it would have been a "cap avoidance contract", it may have been a loophole that hadn't yet been closed.

In the 80's the Lakers signed Magic to a 25 year, $25 million dollar contract. Pretty sure that was cap avoidance as well.

Teams aren't allowed to do that anymore.

The NBA was trying to grow the game. Anything Jordan was the face of helped grow the game. So the NBA allowed hokey deals like that.

Today -- the NBA doesn't need it as much as they are popular around the world. That wasn't the case 30 years ago. But the guy who grew the popularity more than anyone in the history of the game was Jordan.
 
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