Lebrons Cavs vs Jordan’s Bulls

dtgold88 · May 25, 2020

flyerhawk said:
Feed the big man was basically default basketball strategy from Wilt Chamberlain until MJ. After MJ the feed the big man strategy was also mixed in with hero ball isolation to make, IMO, the less appealing brand of basketball in the last 40 years.

Pretty happy that era of basketball is over although the NBA does need to fix a few things with today's game, specifically the foul hunting crap. IMO, if a player leans forward and makes contact in his shot it should either be a no call or a charge. I know that the rule already says that but the league needs to instruct the refs to actually call it that way.

Have always hated that. Even when it benefited my team (Love does this a lot).

dtgold88 · May 25, 2020

trojanfan12 said:
That's interesting. Definitely all about the system and also, how willing a coach is to adjust his.

I was coaching high school basketball in the 90's. I was head coach for the JV and assistant coach for the varsity.

The varsity coach was as old school as it gets when it came to yelling at players, running an old school system (wanted 4 passes before any shot type stuff). The day he hired me and talked about the players he said "When you have racehorses you race. When you have plow horses, you plow. We're gonna plow." lol

But, he was smart enough to tweak his system to fit his players.

My first season coaching with him, we ran his offense to the T on both JV and Varsity and we didn't win a lot at either level.

The 2nd season was different. A kid who had been a junior that first season, went to a couple of basketball camps, did some work with a shooting coach and came back his senior year as really good 3 point shooter. We ran the same system, but he tweaked it to feature that kid. Kid ended up leading the county in 3 point shooting and we made the playoffs for the first time in almost a decade.

On the JV, I figured out that I had kids who were actually more athletic than the kids on the varsity, so I kept the same offense, but sped it up to fit them. The varsity coach came up to me after the 3rd game where we ran the sped up version and said "Next year, we're gonna race". lol

Who knew because tlance had a different experience not every coach was wired that way.

Or maybe he is not quite the shooter he claims to be.

I kid.....I kid.

and, yes, I think a coach from the 90s would figure out how to use Curry if he were dropped into that decade. MVP level? Maybe not, but I'd bet all star before I bet on reserve role player.

dtgold88 · May 25, 2020

Robotech said:
Curry's defense isn't bad. He has a positive defensive plus minus of 0.4 for his career and he had 1.0, 1.6, and 1.7 in his best seasons. Any point guard is going to look bad if he gets matched up with a bigger player near the post, and that does happen in today's NBA, but then again forwards and centers having to guard Curry one on one can look silly, too.

I really just don't get it......would he be an MVP? Maybe not, but he'd turn into Steve Kerr? Seems a little absurd.

dtgold88 · May 25, 2020

flyerhawk said:
I often do think about what would happen to the Warriors if they were transplanted to 1992. They would struggle in the paint certainly but teams would be absolutely dumbfounded by their offensive philosophy. Can you picture guys like Riley or Jackson basically throwing out their entire defensive gameplan because they were getting murdered on the pick and roll? The 90s teams would pretty much all give up the 3 point shot on the pick to make sure that the shooter didn't drive to the hole. Watching someone like Curry hitting 50% of those 3 pointers would drive them crazy.

OTOH, the Warriors would likely have a pretty tough time on the defensive side. Teams are built for length and athleticism and, IMO, they would really struggle with the post up play of the 90s because they wouldn't be able to cheat defensively on the weak side because they would get called for illegal defense.

agree with the last part.....Ironically, the Bulls might give them less trouble than other teams in that area as they never had a dominant big man. They'd probably just do what they did to the Cavs when Mozgov was in and doing some damage....just go small and force the cavs to take him out as they couldn't slow them down.

As for the rest of their D they are pretty damn good now so I would think they would be in the 1990s when they could just foul instead of play real D.

dtgold88 · May 25, 2020

flyerhawk said:
To be clear, my original hypothetical was based on the Warriors going back to 1992 for one year only and the Bulls coming up to today. Great players would of course adjust. Curry would learn how to defend the point post and Jordan would take about 10,000 3 point shots in the offseason after their 1st season.

But in that first year, there would be a huge learning curve. Even for the greats.

while I still think he'd be better than a steve Kerr type - and can agree he might need an offseason to get to superstar form - I would still disagree with your original comment....

"Conversely the 2016 Warriors would be a fringe playoff team in in 1992 as guys like Curry would barely stay on the floor because of the beating they would take."

would getting hit more be a surprise? Maybe. But smaller in stature guys can survive so not sure why he wouldn't.

flyerhawk · May 25, 2020

dtgold88 said:
while I still think he'd be better than a steve Kerr type - and can agree he might need an offseason to get to superstar form - I would still disagree with your original comment....

"Conversely the 2016 Warriors would be a fringe playoff team in in 1992 as guys like Curry would barely stay on the floor because of the beating they would take."

would getting hit more be a surprise? Maybe. But smaller in stature guys can survive so not sure why he wouldn't.

It was a generalized statement. Of course smaller guys played back then. Tiny Archibald had a pretty long career. But the game was a lot more violent back then. A flagrant foul back then would get you an immediate ejection and long suspension today. Firsts were thrown on a regular basis. And the truth is that very few smalls back then were focal point of an offense. Points were expected to distribute the ball, take jump shots and defend other point guards. They weren't expected to drive to the hoop.

dtgold88 · May 25, 2020

flyerhawk said:
It was a generalized statement. Of course smaller guys played back then. Tiny Archibald had a pretty long career. But the game was a lot more violent back then. A flagrant foul back then would get you an immediate ejection and long suspension today. Firsts were thrown on a regular basis. And the truth is that very few smalls back then were focal point of an offense. Points were expected to distribute the ball, take jump shots and defend other point guards. They weren't expected to drive to the hoop.

OK. Not saying it would not have been different for Curry. But no reason to believe he couldn't survive it. Price was a poor man's Curry and survived it. would it have been a surprise to Curry? I suppose. Fewer double teams with no zone might have surprised him, as well.

FYI, had you said it would have taken time to get back to his elite status (or even all star but not superstar) I would not disagree. The comparison someone made to a shorter Miller was a good one.

trojanfan12 · May 25, 2020

You know who would be interesting in the 90's would be Harden.

There was more iso in the 90's which fits with how he likes to play.

He also tries to draw contact a lot as well, which would seem to bode well for him.

He's 6'5" 220, so he has some size to him as well.

On the other hand, the touch fouls that he depends on wouldn't be called back then.

I also wonder how much he'd want to drive to the hoop when guys like Mahorn, Mason or Oakley were waiting in the paint to enforce the no layup rule.

tlance · May 25, 2020

dtgold88 said:
Who knew because tlance had a different experience not every coach was wired that way.

Or maybe he is not quite the shooter he claims to be.

I kid.....I kid.

and, yes, I think a coach from the 90s would figure out how to use Curry if he were dropped into that decade. MVP level? Maybe not, but I'd bet all star before I bet on reserve role player.

I can shoot.

You want to put some cash on the line in a zoom shooting contest, let me know.

tlance · May 25, 2020

dtgold88 said:
comical you say that after the exchange I saw with you and @msgkings322

But you be you. always the victim.

I don’t know what exchange you are talking about.

No victim here. But you are tedious as hell to deal with.

#facts

SJ76 · May 25, 2020

tlance said:
I can shoot.

You want to put some cash on the line in a zoom shooting contest, let me know.

We shooting left handed or right handed? :heh:

tlance · May 25, 2020

SJ76 said:
We shooting left handed or right handed?

I will be shooting right handed.

You can shoot with whichever hand you want.

SJ76 · May 25, 2020

tlance said:
Your choice.

Niiiiice. Been awhile for me I don’t play a lot any more but it wouldn’t take long. Probably be better left handed out the gate

Robotech · May 25, 2020

dtgold88 said:
I really just don't get it......would he be an MVP? Maybe not, but he'd turn into Steve Kerr? Seems a little absurd.

Apparently it's based on the perception that the '90s was some kind of land of the giants, including the PG position, and the assumption that Curry is simply not tough enough.

flyerhawk brought up dropping Curry onto the 1992 Celtics and that there would be a concern for him guarding "bigger guards" like Mark Jackson. Actually, Curry is bigger. And I looked back at the rosters from the 1991-1992 season, and Curry is as big or bigger than every single starting PG except maybe 3 guys, but any size difference looks minimal at best. 6'4" point guards Gary Payton and Derek Harper would have one inch of height on 6'3" Curry, but both of them are listed at a lower weight than Curry. Terry Porter is 6'3" 195 lbs, so he has the same height as Curry, but Porter is 195 lbs to Curry's 190 lbs.

Regarding Curry's toughness, there really was a concern early in his career that his body couldn't hold up. But it had nothing to do with being hit. It was about his ankles. He fixed the ankle problem through surgery and through hard work, including a strength training program that saw him increase his deadlift from 200 lbs to 400 lbs. Would Curry (a great athlete and competitor) have any less desire to get better and strengthen himself if he were playing in the '90s? I don't think so.

Robotech · May 25, 2020

trojanfan12 said:
You know who would be interesting in the 90's would be Harden.

There was more iso in the 90's which fits with how he likes to play.

He also tries to draw contact a lot as well, which would seem to bode well for him.

He's 6'5" 220, so he has some size to him as well.

On the other hand, the touch fouls that he depends on wouldn't be called back then.

I also wonder how much he'd want to drive to the hoop when guys like Mahorn, Mason or Oakley were waiting in the paint to enforce the no layup rule.

Or maybe he'd get the Jordan treatment and still get a lot of touch fouls called for him.

Wamu · May 25, 2020

trojanfan12 said:
You know who would be interesting in the 90's would be Harden.

There was more iso in the 90's which fits with how he likes to play.

He also tries to draw contact a lot as well, which would seem to bode well for him.

He's 6'5" 220, so he has some size to him as well.

On the other hand, the touch fouls that he depends on wouldn't be called back then.

I also wonder how much he'd want to drive to the hoop when guys like Mahorn, Mason or Oakley were waiting in the paint to enforce the no layup rule.

Yeah but 12 pounds of Harden's total weight is his beard.

Robotech · May 25, 2020

msgkings322 said:
Yeah Laimbeer was just an ornery goon. West would kick his ass.

Looks like no one disagrees.

Wamu · May 25, 2020

Robotech said:
Looks like no one disagrees.

Ran across an article from bleacherreport.com- 50 most intimidating NBA players of all time

Bill Laimbeer is ranked # 6. This is funny. Here's what it says.

Intimidating quality- physicality, defense, meanness

The best part about Laimbeer was that he would get under his defender's skin so that he would be the one to throw the first punch, at which point Rick Mahorn would mosey over and the fight would end.

:laugh3:

Robotech · May 25, 2020

Wamu said:
Ran across an article from bleacherreport.com- 50 most intimidating NBA players of all time

Bill Laimbeer is ranked # 6. This is funny. Here's what it says.

Intimidating quality- physicality, defense, meanness

The best part about Laimbeer was that he would get under his defender's skin so that he would be the one to throw the first punch, at which point Rick Mahorn would mosey over and the fight would end.

That Mahorn would save him? LOL. It's a good thing that Pistons dynasty ended in the early '90s. It saved us from this uniform dominating the NBA.

Wamu · May 25, 2020

Robotech said:
That Mahorn would save him? LOL. It's a good thing that Pistons dynasty ended in the early '90s. It saved us from this uniform dominating the NBA.

I forgot about those awful uniforms. They should never them back.

Lebrons Cavs vs Jordan’s Bulls

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