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The Offensive Line

Nelly

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I found this good video on youtube about Charles Leno Jr. this year. It's well worth a watch, and parlays into a discussion about the offensive line specifically. This guy isn't a Bears fan so he's got a pretty good perspective, both on Leno and the offensive line as a whole.

 

Nelly

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Cliffs notes if you don't watch:
  • Leno is an average left tackle
  • He's consistently very good keeping the opposing rusher from getting out of or inside of him because of his quick feet and good hand placement.
  • He struggles most with the bull rush which is due to having average size and strength (at best)
  • But it's better to be bull rushed than beat around the outside or inside and allow free hits on the QB at least
  • Because of his average size and strength, top notch rushers with great hands can bully him and make him look bad
  • This is why Nagy sends plenty of double teams his way to help against the better rushers
  • Leno is solid in the run game
  • He doesn't blow people up but positions himself very well both on the line and down field when needed thanks to his quick feet and good hands
  • Advanced stats from 2019 back up his run game effectiveness by average yards per rush to areas of the line, which get drastically worse as you move from left to right (to Coward/Massie)
  • Leno had a bad first 5 games last year which coincided with the refs being more anal about calls (23% more flags in the first 5 games than the rest of the season on the whole)
  • Leno had 8 penalties in the first 5 games, then 5 penalties over his last 11 games
  • A replacement level free agent left tackle would be considerably worse than Leno by looking at replacement level left tackles from the year prior
  • A surprisingly small number of high draft pick tackles in the last 4 years have fared significantly better than Leno by the numbers
  • This tends to be because the best left tackles come into their own around 25 years old and sustain high level play til 30/31 before dropping off
  • Leno is paid below league average when compared to other left tackles
  • Leno won't be replaced, and shouldn't be replaced.
  • Leno played pretty well in the second half but the first 5 games left a bad taste in our mouths
  • Leno being solid, Daniels taking a step forward, a replacement at RG and a bounce-back from Massie would do wonders for our O line (not to mention better QB play)
 

richig07

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Leno had a great 2018. Dude made the pro bowl, Bears won the North, dude got paid, dude got married...

I think Leno had your typical letdown year following getting that big paycheck. People were too hard on him. He got better after a really rough start. He was firmly in the 2nd tier of LT's (IMO) after 2018. He had been average to above average for a good while. Plus, did you know he's only ever missed ONE SNAP in his entire career? That alone for a LT is super valuable.

I've said it before. I think Leno is a really good bounce back candidate and we should just let it play out. Because guess what? His contract guarantees that there ain't any other option.

RG is the only movable part right now. We'll see what happens in the draft. However, I suspect we bring in a guard to compete with Bars and Ifedi. I know we seem to really like Bars, though.
 

Beengay fudgepackers

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Leno had a great 2018. Dude made the pro bowl, Bears won the North, dude got paid, dude got married...

I think Leno had your typical letdown year following getting that big paycheck. People were too hard on him. He got better after a really rough start. He was firmly in the 2nd tier of LT's (IMO) after 2018. He had been average to above average for a good while. Plus, did you know he's only ever missed ONE SNAP in his entire career? That alone for a LT is super valuable.

I've said it before. I think Leno is a really good bounce back candidate and we should just let it play out. Because guess what? His contract guarantees that there ain't any other option.

RG is the only movable part right now. We'll see what happens in the draft. However, I suspect we bring in a guard to compete with Bars and Ifedi. I know we seem to really like Bars, though.
I think between Coward, Ifedi, and Bars, we have our RG. I wouldn’t be surprised if either tackle position (or both) were to get competition.
 

Nelly

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I think between Coward, Ifedi, and Bars, we have our RG. I wouldn’t be surprised if either tackle position (or both) were to get competition.
That doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

Bars: undrafted free agent last year.
Coward: didn't cut the mustard last year.
Ifedi: replacement level talent.

Coward and Bars have room to improve but it remains to be seen how much. RG is a big hole right now and it's entirely possible that Massie just balled out in 2018 for a contract and is no longer interested in playing hard. We need another talent that either challenge Massie or take over that RG spot right away. There's no way that Leno, Daniels or Whitehair are going to be removed from the starting lineup.
 

Beengay fudgepackers

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That doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

Bars: undrafted free agent last year.
Coward: didn't cut the mustard last year.
Ifedi: replacement level talent.

Coward and Bars have room to improve but it remains to be seen how much. RG is a big hole right now and it's entirely possible that Massie just balled out in 2018 for a contract and is no longer interested in playing hard. We need another talent that either challenge Massie or take over that RG spot right away. There's no way that Leno, Daniels or Whitehair are going to be removed from the starting lineup.
I think you are underestimating Ifedi. Ifedi struggles as a RT, but should be a solid RG. I doubt Coward plays again, he’s looking more and more like a silly project every year. I still think Bars can be good, too.

I think last year was rock bottom for our OLine. With an added draft pick or two and a healthy year, I see this Oline improving.
 

richig07

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I think between Coward, Ifedi, and Bars, we have our RG. I wouldn’t be surprised if either tackle position (or both) were to get competition.

I don't think there's a chance in all hell that Leno gets competition. Better chance for Massie, maybe. Still, the money going to those two guys makes it unlikely.
 

beardown07

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If something doesn't change in the scheme, I don't think it will matter much.
 
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Better coaching and scheme and well be middle of the road.
 

richig07

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That doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

Bars: undrafted free agent last year.
Coward: didn't cut the mustard last year.
Ifedi: replacement level talent.

Coward and Bars have room to improve but it remains to be seen how much. RG is a big hole right now and it's entirely possible that Massie just balled out in 2018 for a contract and is no longer interested in playing hard. We need another talent that either challenge Massie or take over that RG spot right away. There's no way that Leno, Daniels or Whitehair are going to be removed from the starting lineup.

People love Bars for one reason or another. New England tried to poach him off of our practice squad. We activated him to keep him.
 

Nelly

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People love Bars for one reason or another. New England tried to poach him off of our practice squad. We activated him to keep him.
He's got potential. But not everyone with potential realizes it on the field.
 

BeaReylo

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Offensive line discussion starts at 9:15.
 

richig07

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Sorry, but that channel is a joke. Mitch could throw 5 INT's in a game and that guy wouldn't dare put the blame squarely on him. I used to watch those videos religiously until it became obvious that he was prepared to go down with the S.S. Mitch, no matter what. I would much prefer film breakdowns on Mitch from a non-Bears fan. I would feel the same if he blamed nobody besides Mitch as well. At a certain point, that guy tanked his channel in favor of backing the QB.

Around mid-season last year it became just intolerable.
 

NCChiFan

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People love Bars for one reason or another. New England tried to poach him off of our practice squad. We activated him to keep him.
He played well in the very, very limited sample size of 2-3 plays last season. I have hope. Doesn't mean you do not draft either a Center (moving Whitehair back to G) like Ruiz kid or a Guard. In fact, I would throw in a Tacke somewhere as well, for good measure.
 

NCChiFan

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Sorry, but that channel is a joke. Mitch could throw 5 INT's in a game and that guy wouldn't dare put the blame squarely on him. I used to watch those videos religiously until it became obvious that he was prepared to go down with the S.S. Mitch, no matter what. I would much prefer film breakdowns on Mitch from a non-Bears fan. I would feel the same if he blamed nobody besides Mitch as well. At a certain point, that guy tanked his channel in favor of backing the QB.

Around mid-season last year it became just intolerable.
He does a great tape breakdown. He points out flaws, but also highlights good plays as well. He is pretty fair that way. I enjoy his breakdowns.
 

richig07

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He does a great tape breakdown. He points out flaws, but also highlights good plays as well. He is pretty fair that way. I enjoy his breakdowns.

He obviously knows what he's talking about when it comes to strictly football. I would never deny that. He'll throw shade at Mitch for a few plays to balance it out. However, the overall spin is always so glaringly pro-Mitch. It was around the LA Rams game when I tuned in and just couldn't take the glass half full shit anymore. Trying to find glimmers of hope in those midway-point games was just dishonest. NO, LAC, PHI, LAR... those games. Mitch was bad to a point where there was zero means of justification. I don't care what's going on around you.
 

NCChiFan

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He obviously knows what he's talking about when it comes to strictly football. I would never deny that. He'll throw shade at Mitch for a few plays to balance it out. However, the overall spin is always so glaringly pro-Mitch. It was around the LA Rams game when I tuned in and just couldn't take the glass half full shit anymore. Trying to find glimmers of hope in those midway-point games was just dishonest. NO, LAC, PHI, LAR... those games. Mitch was bad to a point where there was zero means of justification. I don't care what's going on around you.
I hear you. It is obvious he is a Bear Fan. And as such does shed a more hopeful positive spin. It will be interesting to see who starts and if Foles does indeed start, any break down comparisons. Face it, the Bears, until now, have had nothing to compare Mitch too, in house. If Foles produces at much the same level, then we might all start to look at the system as being the issue. Or, they didn't fix the O line, those stupid revolving door lineman the Bears had last year. I sort of like the O line signing this off season, but want, desperately hope, Pace finds a quality IOL in this draft and someone to develop/ push Massie and Leno.

We all know, a great O line can cover a host of sins at QB by providing a running game and time for a QB to look off a first read. Just look at Dallas a few years back. Their great O line covered up an average Dak Prescott.
 

Nelly

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I hear you. It is obvious he is a Bear Fan. And as such does shed a more hopeful positive spin. It will be interesting to see who starts and if Foles does indeed start, any break down comparisons. Face it, the Bears, until now, have had nothing to compare Mitch too, in house. If Foles produces at much the same level, then we might all start to look at the system as being the issue. Or, they didn't fix the O line, those stupid revolving door lineman the Bears had last year. I sort of like the O line signing this off season, but want, desperately hope, Pace finds a quality IOL in this draft and someone to develop/ push Massie and Leno.

We all know, a great O line can cover a host of sins at QB by providing a running game and time for a QB to look off a first read. Just look at Dallas a few years back. Their great O line covered up an average Dak Prescott.
Leno is locked in. As shown in the first couple posts, he's an average guy paid below market value and he had a solid second half of the season. Massie is locked in for now as well thanks to his contract and a lack of competition. If he sucks coming out of the gate though i wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced. Maybe not though if we don't get someone decent in here.
 

richig07

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I hear you. It is obvious he is a Bear Fan. And as such does shed a more hopeful positive spin. It will be interesting to see who starts and if Foles does indeed start, any break down comparisons. Face it, the Bears, until now, have had nothing to compare Mitch too, in house. If Foles produces at much the same level, then we might all start to look at the system as being the issue. Or, they didn't fix the O line, those stupid revolving door lineman the Bears had last year. I sort of like the O line signing this off season, but want, desperately hope, Pace finds a quality IOL in this draft and someone to develop/ push Massie and Leno.

We all know, a great O line can cover a host of sins at QB by providing a running game and time for a QB to look off a first read. Just look at Dallas a few years back. Their great O line covered up an average Dak Prescott.

Foles is a guy who has succeeded when the pieces have been in place around him and failed when they haven't been. In Philly, the one thing he had during his pair of hot streaks was a great O-line. We definitely need an improvement there.

I also have no idea if Foles will start. Nagy said some things recently that REALLY got me nervous about the idea that this could all be setup for Mitch to win in camp. I am getting a bad feeling that Foles is just the "eject button" that Nagy/Pace are putting nearby. Just there to be pressed incase we start 2-2/3-3 with an anemic offense. To give them one last ditch effort to try and save their jobs.
 
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