Mike Brown - Changing the Tide

CrashDavisSports · Feb 18, 2020

So, with all these reports coming out that Burrow may want to hold out, that ownership is terrible, that Mike Brown doesn't want to win....do you think Mike Brown will take a proactive look at changing that tide?

Right now there are reports that New England "may" be interested in Dalton with a 3rd or 4th round pick, since they have two of each.

AJ Green, while older is a tremendous player and supposedly, Belichek is interested in him also. What about a potential trade that looks like this:

AJ Green (franchised) and Andy Dalton to NE for both 3rd round picks (condition of Green signing multi-year deal), and a conditional '21 pick that could be as high as a 3rd if Green stays healthy for the entire year and reaches 1000 yards receiving.

NE has (2) 3rd round picks this year and (2) 4th round picks this year.

Then Mike Brown breaks his traditional mold in FA and does the following:

FA MLB: Joe Schobert, CLE (really good, smart MLB and weakens CLE a little)
FA OLB: Nick Kwiatkoski, CHI
FA OL: Joe Thuney, NE
FA DT: D.J. Reader, HOU
FA TE: Tyler Eifert, CIN (1 year deal - incentive laden)

That shores up our biggest weaknesses in one off season, and while pricey, it is not going to be breaking the bank, especially losing Dalton's 17.7 million, and AJ Green's 15 million. Plus, your next franchise QB is working under the rookie contract for the next 5 years.

1st: QB Joe Burrow, LSU
1st: S Antoine Winfield Jr. , Minnesota (trade up 1 with Chiefs to lock in extra 5th year - Give up 6th)
3rd Pick (1): WR Antonio Gandy-Golden, Liberty
3rd Pick (2): TE Thaddeus Moss, LSU
3rd Pick (3): OL Solomon Kindley, Georgia
4th: LB Malik Harrison, OSU
5th: CB A.J. Green, Oklahoma State
7th: DE Chauncey Rivers, Mississippi State

Cincyfan78 · Feb 18, 2020

Mike Brown couldn't care less what Joe Burrow thinks. If he wants to draft him, he's going to draft him.

Also, this whole nonsense about Burrow holding out is a non-story. He's never said that. This is getting really stupid. The national media is creating a lot of fake news with this.

alf8478 · Feb 18, 2020

How about Dalton and AJ (pending him signing with NE) and #33 to New England for #23 and a later pick, or conditional in 2021?

cincygrad · Feb 18, 2020

Cincyfan78 said:
Mike Brown couldn't care less what Joe Burrow thinks. If he wants to draft him, he's going to draft him.

Also, this whole nonsense about Burrow holding out is a non-story. He's never said that. This is getting really stupid. The national media is creating a lot of fake news with this.

It's really not even the national media.....It's Florio. Other national guys like Prisco think he's (Florio) an idiot.

CrashDavisSports · Feb 18, 2020

It was not about Burrow being interested in the Bengals, or Mike Brown debating drafting him.

It was about Mike Brown hearing so much negativity about himself and him not wanting to win that he opens the account and decides to fight back against Palmer and National Media. Prove them wrong kind of attitude.

That is all I was getting at.

cincygrad · Feb 18, 2020

CrashDavisSports said:
It was not about Burrow being interested in the Bengals, or Mike Brown debating drafting him.

It was about Mike Brown hearing so much negativity about himself and him not wanting to win that he opens the account and decides to fight back against Palmer and National Media. Prove them wrong kind of attitude.

That is all I was getting at.

At this point it's unclear to me that Mike even reads/listens to/or watches anything in the national media. He probably just reads whatever good old Butch Hobs writes about him.

DanBengalfan · Feb 19, 2020

Brown has more money, hookers, and blow than you'll ever score in yer life. He's laughing at all the Bengal fans, the county, and just about anyone. he will laugh on his death bed. we can only hope that his kids take the football side of the business more seriously and don't have any narcissistic belief in themselves as football experts.

Cincyfan78 · Feb 20, 2020

At this point - why would he change? I'm pretty certain he knows what's being said, and for the larger part of his ownership - it's been said more often than not. If it hasn't changed by now - why would anyone realistically expect a change now?

CrashDavisSports · Feb 20, 2020

Cincyfan78 said:
At this point - why would he change? I'm pretty certain he knows what's being said, and for the larger part of his ownership - it's been said more often than not. If it hasn't changed by now - why would anyone realistically expect a change now?

Willie Anderson insists that Mike Brown being cheap is ridiculous. He said he paid guys, and he paid them very well if they earned the contracts. He didn't believe in paying FA a ton of money that had not performed in the Bengals system, but he believes people calling Mike Brown cheap is a false narrative.

cincygrad · Feb 20, 2020

CrashDavisSports said:
Willie Anderson insists that Mike Brown being cheap is ridiculous. He said he paid guys, and he paid them very well if they earned the contracts. He didn't believe in paying FA a ton of money that had not performed in the Bengals system, but he believes people calling Mike Brown cheap is a false narrative.

I don't think players salaries tell the whole story.... I absolutely agree that he has paid players. Lots of guys here on their second or third big deal. And they wanted to stay because they knew the money would be there. But when you continue to struggle with the smallest scouting department in the league, you open yourself up to criticism. When you're slow with upgrading facilities (bubble anyone?), you open yourself to criticism. When you have stupid principles about positions you won't pay (guard), when other successful teams disagree, you open yourself to criticism.

Cincyfan78 · Feb 21, 2020

cincygrad said:
I don't think players salaries tell the whole story.... I absolutely agree that he has paid players. Lots of guys here on their second or third big deal. And they wanted to stay because they knew the money would be there. But when you continue to struggle with the smallest scouting department in the league, you open yourself up to criticism. When you're slow with upgrading facilities (bubble anyone?), you open yourself to criticism. When you have stupid principles about positions you won't pay (guard), when other successful teams disagree, you open yourself to criticism.

This right here. The stories of the lockeroom, the practice fields, the team amenities, or lack thereof..these are legendary - and sadly true.

Brown does his people right with contracts, honors them usually pretty much through the contract signed - and in fairness he has the right to ask every player to uphold their end by not holding out since he 99% of the time doesn't cut people with money owed.

But the fact that the Bengals are the only northern team without a practice bubble - the sad state of affairs with staffing, etc...He's cheap. He's just not cheap with paying players, he pays them fair value - but the overall experience of being a "Bengal" vs being a "Patriot" has to be an alarming culture shock for any player switching sides.

CrashDavisSports · Feb 21, 2020

Because of a bubble? Didn't they re-engineer the inside of Paul Brown stadium in certain areas to be able to handle some indoor practices and walk through? Granted, I agree they could use some extra facility, but we are a northern team with bad weather. Shouldn't guys practice in it to get used to conditions instead of being coddled and be shocked as hell on sunday when it is 5 degrees snow on the ground and breeze off the Ohio River? I mean Palmer was a southern California kid, of course not having a bubble pisses him off. After the Kimo hit, he needed put in a bubble.

DanBengalfan · Feb 21, 2020

we're in the middle of the spending pack these days.

It would be nice to make a decent push for a playoff year, but it's often a crap shoot. will we ever live to see the Bengals win another playoff game? unknown. no idea. odds are it would happen, but old habits are hard to break.

Cincyfan78 · Feb 21, 2020

CrashDavisSports said:
Because of a bubble? Didn't they re-engineer the inside of Paul Brown stadium in certain areas to be able to handle some indoor practices and walk through? Granted, I agree they could use some extra facility, but we are a northern team with bad weather. Shouldn't guys practice in it to get used to conditions instead of being coddled and be shocked as hell on sunday when it is 5 degrees snow on the ground and breeze off the Ohio River? I mean Palmer was a southern California kid, of course not having a bubble pisses him off. After the Kimo hit, he needed put in a bubble.

They currently bus players to either UC or Wall-2-Wall in Mason when there is weather that requires an indoor practice. That's cheap. Period.

ATL96Steeler · Feb 21, 2020

CrashDavisSports said:
So, with all these reports coming out that Burrow may want to hold out, that ownership is terrible, that Mike Brown doesn't want to win....do you think Mike Brown will take a proactive look at changing that tide?

Right now there are reports that New England "may" be interested in Dalton with a 3rd or 4th round pick, since they have two of each.

AJ Green, while older is a tremendous player and supposedly, Belichek is interested in him also. What about a potential trade that looks like this:

AJ Green (franchised) and Andy Dalton to NE for both 3rd round picks (condition of Green signing multi-year deal), and a conditional '21 pick that could be as high as a 3rd if Green stays healthy for the entire year and reaches 1000 yards receiving.

NE has (2) 3rd round picks this year and (2) 4th round picks this year.

Then Mike Brown breaks his traditional mold in FA and does the following:

FA MLB: Joe Schobert, CLE (really good, smart MLB and weakens CLE a little)
FA OLB: Nick Kwiatkoski, CHI
FA OL: Joe Thuney, NE
FA DT: D.J. Reader, HOU
FA TE: Tyler Eifert, CIN (1 year deal - incentive laden)

That shores up our biggest weaknesses in one off season, and while pricey, it is not going to be breaking the bank, especially losing Dalton's 17.7 million, and AJ Green's 15 million. Plus, your next franchise QB is working under the rookie contract for the next 5 years.

1st: QB Joe Burrow, LSU
1st: S Antoine Winfield Jr. , Minnesota (trade up 1 with Chiefs to lock in extra 5th year - Give up 6th)
3rd Pick (1): WR Antonio Gandy-Golden, Liberty
3rd Pick (2): TE Thaddeus Moss, LSU
3rd Pick (3): OL Solomon Kindley, Georgia
4th: LB Malik Harrison, OSU
5th: CB A.J. Green, Oklahoma State
7th: DE Chauncey Rivers, Mississippi State

Dalton...imo should return no worse than a 3rd.

AJ...he's going to have to be on board with the trade team, else he can block any trade by not signing the tag tender.

Shobert is a player...CLE is going to miss him.

Kindley imo will go in the 2nd round.

Cincyfan78 · Feb 21, 2020

ATL96Steeler said:
Dalton...imo should return no worse than a 3rd.

AJ...he's going to have to be on board with the trade team, else he can block any trade by not signing the tag tender.

Shobert is a player...CLE is going to miss him.

Kindley imo will go in the 2nd round.

I am high on Shobert as well. I think he would be a great addition to the middle of the defense behind Atkins, Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson...add another big bodied DT, and he can make some plays for a defense.

AJ is going to be on board with whoever is willing to pay him. Get the parameters for what he's looking for and then let him work out a deal with any team willing to trade for him. But, the cap savings from both Dalton and Green would be the biggest benefit to them being gone - of course assuming that the Bengals know what to do with that money (OL/defense).

ATL96Steeler · Feb 21, 2020

Cincyfan78 said:
I am high on Shobert as well. I think he would be a great addition to the middle of the defense behind Atkins, Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson...add another big bodied DT, and he can make some plays for a defense.

AJ is going to be on board with whoever is willing to pay him. Get the parameters for what he's looking for and then let him work out a deal with any team willing to trade for him. But, the cap savings from both Dalton and Green would be the biggest benefit to them being gone - of course assuming that the Bengals know what to do with that money (OL/defense).

Brown does need to supplement the draft with FA better than he has. That doesn't mean going foolish like the Jets, but midlevel FAs can help you get to the dance.

AJ...there are plenty of teams that are willing to pay him. How much is the question? If he's still chasing max money after playing 9 games the last 2 seasons due to injury, he's in the wrong league.

I'm not 100% sure I would tag him with the thought of trading him. The franchise tag is $18 mil, who is going to take a 31 y/o coming off two injury shortened seasons with that kind of cap hit? If let go, I don't think he can command that much on the open market.

As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. This is one I would let walk and pick up the comp pick next year.

DanBengalfan · Feb 21, 2020

Cincyfan78 said:
They currently bus players to either UC or Wall-2-Wall in Mason when there is weather that requires an indoor practice. That's cheap. Period.

I was playing a pickup soccer game at wall2wall one day there were several players practicing football. I don't know who they were, but they were much more athletic than us, lol.

cincygrad · Feb 22, 2020

CrashDavisSports said:
Because of a bubble? Didn't they re-engineer the inside of Paul Brown stadium in certain areas to be able to handle some indoor practices and walk through? Granted, I agree they could use some extra facility, but we are a northern team with bad weather. Shouldn't guys practice in it to get used to conditions instead of being coddled and be shocked as hell on sunday when it is 5 degrees snow on the ground and breeze off the Ohio River? I mean Palmer was a southern California kid, of course not having a bubble pisses him off. After the Kimo hit, he needed put in a bubble.

This is a ridiculous take..... Whether you want to accept changing times or not, modern NFL players have been practicing indoors long before they make it to the NFL. Some of them (look at Massilon) start practicing indoors in high school. And look at the facilities available to these kids at the major college programs. The reason college coaches are obsessed with upgrades to facilities is because it matters to recruits. That's not all of a sudden different when the guys make it to the pros. And no, nothing they did to PBS fixed this problem - That was just a story Hobs wants everyone to believe.

CrashDavisSports · Feb 24, 2020

cincygrad said:
This is a ridiculous take..... Whether you want to accept changing times or not, modern NFL players have been practicing indoors long before they make it to the NFL. Some of them (look at Massilon) start practicing indoors in high school. And look at the facilities available to these kids at the major college programs. The reason college coaches are obsessed with upgrades to facilities is because it matters to recruits. That's not all of a sudden different when the guys make it to the pros. And no, nothing they did to PBS fixed this problem - That was just a story Hobs wants everyone to believe.

This is not Hobs take, this is my own personal take. I just think most these millionaires are getting a little soft. Just my take.

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