Eli to announce retirement this week

TREFF said:

If longevity and one team your whole career are 2 of your top 3 reasons for HOF entry..definitive proof that he ain't worthy

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I know you wont read this... But those are 2 pretty solid stats... Compiling is not a negative.... If you want to say he wasn't the most talented QB, then fine... But career wise, being a compiler means that you were good enough, for long enough... HOW is that a bad thing??

SmokingMonkey said:

so is he going into the HoF?

as much as I'd like to say his career was way too mediocre to make it, I think his ability to stay on the field throughout his career will bump his numbers enough to get him in.

thoughts?

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Will he? I think so.
Should he? Nope.

MilkSpiller22 said:

he is a HOFer… Pretty easily

3 biggest reasons why

1. longevity
2. more than 1 SB
3. played whole career with one team

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I don't think any of these are good reasons for somebody to make the hall

MilkSpiller22 said:

does it?? I don't think anyone even cares about that... not even charger fans, as they are the rare breed that believes Rivers is better than Manning anyway...

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You may be right.
But don't forget, I'm an old fart.
Different era. Different set of values I suppose.
Never did like anyone thinking they were bigger than the league. Don't care how good a player is.
Bozworth, even Eric Lindros in NHL.
My message to those kind of players:

averagejoe said:

You may be right.
But don't forget, I'm an old fart.
Different era. Different set of values I suppose.
Never did like anyone thinking they were bigger than the league. Don't care how good a player is.
Bozworth, even Eric Lindros in NHL.
My message to those kind of players:

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I don't think it was a new phenomenon though... I just think Eli got his way because of his family... Peyton was already a superstar and Archie was well respected and loved around football...

Its more like nepotism than anything else... and was it Eli who was the one complaining??

MilkSpiller22 said:

Its more like nepotism than anything else... and was it Eli who was the one complaining??

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whether it was Eli or Archie that said Eli won't play a snap for the Chargers, it is still a bitch move.

@averagejoe - Elway is a bit of a different animal imo, as he had legitimate interest from MLB, even played well in a short minor league stint before going to the NFL.

I think a good comparison is Jim Kelly - he went to the other football league for a season or two cause he didn't want to play football in the Buffalo winter. Buffalo comes back with more money, and Kelly heads north.

MilkSpiller22 said:

I know you wont read this... But those are 2 pretty solid stats... Compiling is not a negative.... If you want to say he wasn't the most talented QB, then fine... But career wise, being a compiler means that you were good enough, for long enough... HOW is that a bad thing??

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Every now and again, I hit the button. Gotta leave the door open a crack, no one is ever permanently on my shun list.

Being a compiler is not a bad thing. Being good enough for a long period is not a bad thing. But they aren't great things, and the HOF honors greats, the best of the best. Not good. He's likely to get in, but it just lowers the bar of the HOF

TREFF said:

Every now and again, I hit the button. Gotta leave the door open a crack, no one is ever permanently on my shun list.

Being a compiler is not a bad thing. Being good enough for a long period is not a bad thing. But they aren't great things, and the HOF honors greats, the best of the best. Not good. He's likely to get in, but it just lowers the bar of the HOF

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but here is the real question... is there a better stat to value career than being a compiler??

I mean, nobody is saying he is a great qb, but he definitely had a great career...

i have always thought people have a difficult time separating those two things...

MilkSpiller22 said:

but here is the real question... is there a better stat to value career than being a compiler??

I mean, nobody is saying he is a great qb, but he definitely had a great career...

i have always thought people have a difficult time separating those two things...

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This is the HOF, if no one is saying he's a great QB, then he doesn't deserve to get in. Simple as that. And its arguable as to how great his career was. Never led the league a single time any any single positive meaningful category. No All pros, meaning his peers and coaches never considered him a top QB any year his entire career. That's telling. There are younger QB's today, playing in this pass heavy league, that could push his top ten career numbers in yards and TD's out of the top ten relatively soon, possibly even before he's eligible for a vote. Big Ben and Matt Ryan will easily push him to #9 in yards within a year or two, Rodgers will likely pass him soon, Stafford not long after, hell RW only needs to average 4k for the next five years to blow by him, and suddenly he's like #12-15 when it comes time to vote, passed by guys like Stafford and Ryan who are not really strong HOF candidates. Ryan, Stafford and Big Ben will likely all blow by him in career TD's in that five year window too. I don't think what he's done can in any way be considered greatness. Just a whole lot of slightly above average piling on top of one another
The one thing, his one hook to hang his hat on, is 2 super bowl MVP's. One of which was only possible by the helmet catch. Without that he has no edge, no ace in the hole. Is it truly worthy of being put in the same class as Unitas, Montana, Elway, etc.., if your biggest claim to that honor is a fluke catch? Honestly those 2 MVP's and rings are what he's going in on, and we all know it, not his lengthy, slightly above mediocre career. If Tyree doesn't catch that lame duck, he's not getting much more than a passing consideration. He'd be talked about as having a nice career, a solid gamer, but just another good QB. But becuase Tyree did catch it, he's a HOF'er?? No way.

TREFF said:

One of which was only possible by the helmet catch...........If Tyree doesn't catch that lame duck..............But becuase Tyree did catch it

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I mean, Eli did have a little something to do with that catch. His pocket presence/scrambling was AMAZING on that play - Patriots should have gotten a sack and another ring there.

SmokingMonkey said:

I mean, Eli did have a little something to do with that catch. His pocket presence/scrambling was AMAZING on that play - Patriots should have gotten a sack and another ring there.

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that catch wasn't even the TD, but yet, that catch in everyone's eyes is why they won, and because it was lucky, they should have lost....

Players make great catches all the time, but this one was different.... how about when a team gets a crazy first down because of a penalty... why is that not THIS QB DESERVED TO LOSE!!!

SmokingMonkey said:

I think a good comparison is Jim Kelly - he went to the other football league for a season or two cause he didn't want to play football in the Buffalo winter. Buffalo comes back with more money, and Kelly heads north.

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Hmmm. Honestly dont recall that about Kelly. Just remember him and Hershel chasing the free money the USFL was offering.

SmokingMonkey said:

I mean, Eli did have a little something to do with that catch. His pocket presence/scrambling was AMAZING on that play - Patriots should have gotten a sack and another ring there.

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Well that play might belong in the HOF, I could be swayed there.
I just don't agree that that singular moment should justify being a HOF'er. And essentially, that's exactly what's gonna happen.

Whatever, he and Namath can have thier own little QB's with special needs wing, dedicated to those who don't really belong, but got in anyways.

TREFF said:

Well that play might belong in the HOF, I could be swayed there.
I just don't agree that that singular moment should justify being a HOF'er. And essentially, that's exactly what's gonna happen.

Whatever, he and Namath can have thier own little QB's with special needs wing, dedicated to those who don't really belong, but got in anyways.

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With all this said, I don’t care for Aikman and view him in a similar mold. Granted that could be because he was surrounded by so many great players

Trudem said:

With all this said, I don’t care for Aikman and view him in a similar mold. Granted that could be because he was surrounded by so many great players

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Aikmens career passing #'s don't add up, but 3 Super Bowls, All pro, one Superbowl MVP, a Walter Peyton man of the year, 20 games over .500, and not that I give two shots about the fan popularity contest, but for those who do, 6 pro bowls. And easily in the discussion as one of the best QB's of his time, Favre and Elway likely get the top two slots in nineties, Aikmen is right behind em, with Marino, Young, Kelly..all HOF'ers.
He did build his resume off the backs of a great D, and possibly the best Oline ever assembled, but that's also the era he played in, was pre-greatest show on turf, numbers just aren't going to be there.
He's more on the fringe than a shoe in, but an entire class or two above Eli.