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"Magic" Madrigal?

Lake Shore Drive

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of course you're allowed to hope. I hope! i just don't pretend they are what you think they are. you know, the very fact you criticize those not drinking the kool-aid shows your own insecurity in the team.

as to them improving themselves .... are you suggesting i don't think they improved themselves? if so you deliberately deceive yourself just so you can rag on me. if it wasn't so sad i'd have a good laugh.

Ok then you tell me who I think they are, then tell me who you think they are. I want to see specifics. And of course I've never suggested you don't think they've improved themselves. To the contrary, when I pointed out in another post that just by you saying the Sox are at best a ".500ish team", your very words, it automatically told us you think they've improved from their 72 win season last year. Duh.

And what's this nonsense about my own insecurity in the team, Dr. idseer? I've stated on many posts that despite the improvements, I have doubts that the Sox can make up the necessary ground to either win the division or claim a wild card spot just based on the win totals from the teams ahead of us in both categories. That's analysis, that's opinion, that's not insecurity. But it doesn't distract me from having positive thoughts about what's taken place this offseason or that it's my fervent belief that the arrow is unquestionably pointing upward for the Sox. Or is thinking along these lines "setting ourselves up for a fall. like sox fans do EVERY year!"
 

idseer

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Ok then you tell me who I think they are, then tell me who you think they are. I want to see specifics. And of course I've never suggested you don't think they've improved themselves. To the contrary, when I pointed out in another post that just by you saying the Sox are at best a ".500ish team", your very words, it automatically told us you think they've improved from their 72 win season last year. Duh.

And what's this nonsense about my own insecurity in the team, Dr. idseer? I've stated on many posts that despite the improvements, I have doubts that the Sox can make up the necessary ground to either win the division or claim a wild card spot just based on the win totals from the teams ahead of us in both categories. That's analysis, that's opinion, that's not insecurity. But it doesn't distract me from having positive thoughts about what's taken place this offseason or that it's my fervent belief that the arrow is unquestionably pointing upward for the Sox. Or is thinking along these lines "setting ourselves up for a fall. like sox fans do EVERY year!"

Ok then you tell me who I think they are, then tell me who you think they are. I want to see specifics.
not playing that game with you. i know what you think, you know what i think and you know what you implied. and you shouldn't be allowed to ask for specifics when you ignore them completely when judging the sox. i've pointed out specifics on everyone the sox have picked up and you have not answered one of them. don't ask me now to go dig this information up.

fact is you want the best of both worlds. you want to say they've really improved big. you're at a B+ maybe even an A. you think the sp is greatly improved with the two patch jobs they got. you think the catching is suddenly world class by adding sideways to a position you initially thought we didn't even need ... catching! you think rf is going to be much better with another team's castoff. throw in that you believe every one of our core players will be at least as good as they were last year..
....... and YET! you want to hedge your bet by saying you have doubts!
well tell me professor ... you want to just sum it up by saying you have no idea what's going to happen? and in such a way to write 4 times as much about it as any other single poster on the board?
now, you know i really like you lsd. you're that typical variety of dreamer sox fan that goes overboard but are at least willing to backtrack and eventually admit you could be full of shit. :)
 

Lake Shore Drive

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Ok id, don't really feel like going back and forth taking apart your response here, so I'll just say we'll just have to agree to disagree. Go Sox!
 

Mingo

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This is typical for White Sox fans - arguments are so passionate because the differences are so small.

I've been a White Sox fan for 61 years and the optimism still hasn't been beaten out of me. This young group of players seem to me on the whole better than the group that came up in the mid-90s.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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This is typical for White Sox fans - arguments are so passionate because the differences are so small.

I've been a White Sox fan for 61 years and the optimism still hasn't been beaten out of me. This young group of players seem to me on the whole better than the group that came up in the mid-90s.
Well stated Mingo. That young group from the 90's was pretty good as well, but I really like this latest group of youngins.
 

Jiddy

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This is typical for White Sox fans - arguments are so passionate because the differences are so small.

I've been a White Sox fan for 61 years and the optimism still hasn't been beaten out of me. This young group of players seem to me on the whole better than the group that came up in the mid-90s.

How much better? Let us not forget that that 90s team only saw the playoffs once.***

There's one thing that we can count on...some level of improvement...but that's only because we were dogsh*t last year so there's no other way to go but up.

****Twice if you count the strike...but it's hard to give us credit for that when our own owner led the charge.



Points for using the word "juggernaut." It has a nice ring to it. When the bandwagon rolls it doesn't matter what order folks get on.

3mo767.jpg
 

Mingo

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How much better? Let us not forget that that 90s team only saw the playoffs once.***

There's one thing that we can count on...some level of improvement...but that's only because we were dogsh*t last year so there's no other way to go but up.

****Twice if you count the strike...but it's hard to give us credit for that when our own owner led the charge.

The scary thing is the next potential strike is 2021 - in which the arc of success for this team will be at the same point of the 1996 team.

How much better? Yeah - that is the question. Lots of ifs still involved - If Giolitto doesn't regress - If Kopech recovers and perfects his craft - If Cease keeps getting better - If the lightbulb goes of in Lopez' head - If Rodon isn't always injured. All of them performing like I would like - is like expecting the draw for an inside straight.

Moncada - Better than Ventura
Anderson - better than Guillen at the plate - not as good defensively
Madrigal - certainly not the power of Ray Durham - prospectively better defensively
Thomas - Frank Thomas is better than Abreu - but Thomas is better than most 1st basemen in history
Grandal/McCann - better than Karkovice

Jimenz/Robert/Mazara - better than Cameron/Tony Phillips/Tartabull and Martinez

Encarnation - at DH I'll take Harold the Bat Baines, but EE really isn't far behind and has more power

Pitching - Much better more proven pitching in the 90s - than now.
 

idseer

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... at DH I'll take Harold the Bat Baines ...

i can honestly say i've never heard this "the bat" expression. is this something you just now made up?

in any case, it's always nice to see his name brought up. 3 of my 5 favorite sox (or any other) players are in the hall and imo it should be 4.
 

Mingo

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i can honestly say i've never heard this "the bat" expression. is this something you just now made up?

in any case, it's always nice to see his name brought up. 3 of my 5 favorite sox (or any other) players are in the hall and imo it should be 4.

Harold Baines was first spotted when he was 12 years old by Bill Veeck while on vacation in St. Michaels MD. "The Bat" was his nickname in Little League and HS.
 

idseer

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Harold Baines was first spotted when he was 12 years old by Bill Veeck while on vacation in St. Michaels MD. "The Bat" was his nickname in Little League and HS.
i knew about when veeck met harold but never heard of him having a nickname. funny it didn't carry over.
 

Jiddy

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The scary thing is the next potential strike is 2021 - in which the arc of success for this team will be at the same point of the 1996 team.

How much better? Yeah - that is the question. Lots of ifs still involved - If Giolitto doesn't regress - If Kopech recovers and perfects his craft - If Cease keeps getting better - If the lightbulb goes of in Lopez' head - If Rodon isn't always injured. All of them performing like I would like - is like expecting the draw for an inside straight.

Moncada - Better than Ventura
Anderson - better than Guillen at the plate - not as good defensively
Madrigal - certainly not the power of Ray Durham - prospectively better defensively
Thomas - Frank Thomas is better than Abreu - but Thomas is better than most 1st basemen in history
Grandal/McCann - better than Karkovice

Jimenz/Robert/Mazara - better than Cameron/Tony Phillips/Tartabull and Martinez

Encarnation - at DH I'll take Harold the Bat Baines, but EE really isn't far behind and has more power

Pitching - Much better more proven pitching in the 90s - than now.

LOL @ the bold... "oh and that pitching thing...yeah...we'll just sneak this in here on the down low at the end..."

Sorry, I'm not willing to give a guy that strikes out at almost a 1/3 clip to date a nod over Ventura. He's got a LONG way to go to earn that honor.

I remember hyping Mike Sirotka like he was the next great thing. Randy Johnson eat your heart out. Mistakes of one's youth.
 

Mingo

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LOL @ the bold... "oh and that pitching thing...yeah...we'll just sneak this in here on the down low at the end..."

Sorry, I'm not willing to give a guy that strikes out at almost a 1/3 clip to date a nod over Ventura. He's got a LONG way to go to earn that honor.

I remember hyping Mike Sirotka like he was the next great thing. Randy Johnson eat your heart out. Mistakes of one's youth.

Fair enough on Ventura, but Moncada was as close to .25 SO rate as he was to .30 and had a great OBP of .368.
But - Robin was a clutch baseball player - offensively and defensively. He never should have managed.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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No way yet to say Moncada is better overall than Ventura and I suspect he'll never match Robin's glove. But he does have the potential to be a better hitter, altho it would still take some doing to top that. I do think his hit ceiling seems higher than Ventura's. I'm super excited to see what this kid will bring to the table in the coming years, I think the sky's the limit. I hope we can lock him in for an extra couple of seasons with an extended contract as they have Jimenez and Robert.

One fascinating little factoid about Robin Ventura: his career BB totals were almost as high as his SO, 1075 vs 1179, respectively. He actually walked more than struck out in his first four or five seasons with the Sox. We could use more of that on this club.
 

Jiddy

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Fair enough on Ventura, but Moncada was as close to .25 SO rate as he was to .30 and had a great OBP of .368.
But - Robin was a clutch baseball player - offensively and defensively. He never should have managed.

Yeah...That's a sad thing. But we can remember the good times and try to wash out the bad...I mean, as far as I'm concerned Nolan Ryan got his ass kicked and nobody is convincing me otherwise.
 

Mingo

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Yeah...That's a sad thing. But we can remember the good times and try to wash out the bad...I mean, as far as I'm concerned Nolan Ryan got his ass kicked and nobody is convincing me otherwise.

I like to tell people that Robin Ventura is the only one to get 6 straight hits off of Nolan Ryan.
 
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