• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

This must happen

MrS

Well-Known Member
5,165
862
113
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
He made critical mistake after critical mistake late in the game, unforgivable mistakes really.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
96,038
32,785
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Meh. I'm fairly indifferent to whether they fire Ken Norton.

Norton was hired to be a glorified motivational speaker. We aren't going to get a high quality DC here while Pete is the head coach because he runs the defense.

We've had, what, 4 DCs in Pete's era? Has the defense changed one ounce, other than the talent?
 

FirebreathingMonkey

Well-Known Member
2,795
514
113
Joined
May 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
WHAT?

You don't like seeing opposing teams WR being open will 10 yards of separation in every direction.


Seattle D-Coach

Let's not guard the WR, by playing zone

play- Team X, QB throws to WIDE open WR. 2o yard gain.

me- please don't play zone you do NOT have the pass rush to get to the QB, It's going to be pitch and catch, please...

Seattle D coach- Well I bet they wouldn't do that again

next play

play- Team X QB throws to WIDE open WR. 20 yard gain.

Me- :L


That was Seattle D all season
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Meh. I'm fairly indifferent to whether they fire Ken Norton.

Norton was hired to be a glorified motivational speaker. We aren't going to get a high quality DC here while Pete is the head coach because he runs the defense.

We've had, what, 4 DCs in Pete's era? Has the defense changed one ounce, other than the talent?

When we lost Quinn our defense took a big step backwards under Richards, Pete doesn’t run the D, he lets his coordinators call the shots, he’s big on letting coaches do what they do... We can’t ignore this, under Norton the defense has been near the bottom of the league, when he was with the Raiders same thing... Getting a new DC should be at the top of the list, along with resigning Clowney ...
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
WHAT?

You don't like seeing opposing teams WR being open will 10 yards of separation in every direction.


Seattle D-Coach

Let's not guard the WR, by playing zone

play- Team X, QB throws to WIDE open WR. 2o yard gain.

me- please don't play zone you do NOT have the pass rush to get to the QB, It's going to be pitch and catch, please...

Seattle D coach- Well I bet they wouldn't do that again

next play

play- Team X QB throws to WIDE open WR. 20 yard gain.

Me- :L


That was Seattle D all season


And then he drops our best pass rusher Clowney into zone coverage with the season on the line on a 3rd and long ... Don’t send Clowney after Rodgers, don’t do that, let’s put him into a zone because of his superior DB skills ....
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
96,038
32,785
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
When we lost Quinn our defense took a big step backwards under Richards, Pete doesn’t run the D, he lets his coordinators call the shots, he’s big on letting coaches do what they do... We can’t ignore this, under Norton the defense has been near the bottom of the league, when he was with the Raiders same thing... Getting a new DC should be at the top of the list, along with resigning Clowney ...

I see no evidence that Pete let's either of his coordinators call their own shots. He gives them pretty clear constraints. In 8 years we have essentially played the same defense every year. If anything this defense tried to do new things this year. But our unwillingness to blitz, which was true under Bradley, Quinn, Richard and Norton, was a clear problem this year.

Richard's last year as DC was the year we lost Sherman and Avril for the year and Thomas for most of the year.

The defense was No. 1 in Richard's 1st year and dropped down to 13th in his last year. The decline continued under Norton.

My point isn't that we should keep Norton. Like I said, I'm fairly indifferent to whether he stays or goes. Unless Pete hires someone that is allowed to put their own defense in there, it is going to be the same thing warmed over.
 

MrS

Well-Known Member
5,165
862
113
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
This team has held onto coordinators for far too long in the past, they will likely do it again with norton.
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I see no evidence that Pete let's either of his coordinators call their own shots. He gives them pretty clear constraints. In 8 years we have essentially played the same defense every year. If anything this defense tried to do new things this year. But our unwillingness to blitz, which was true under Bradley, Quinn, Richard and Norton, was a clear problem this year.

Richard's last year as DC was the year we lost Sherman and Avril for the year and Thomas for most of the year.

The defense was No. 1 in Richard's 1st year and dropped down to 13th in his last year. The decline continued under Norton.

My point isn't that we should keep Norton. Like I said, I'm fairly indifferent to whether he stays or goes. Unless Pete hires someone that is allowed to put their own defense in there, it is going to be the same thing warmed over.



Some guy's just aren't good at playing chess, the X's and O's of attacking an offense, putting players in the best position to succeed... Richards was bad at it and so is Norton... Pete is known for letting coordinators be themselves, call the shots, he's known for that, has even talked about it... You could see it right away when Richards took over, confusion in the secondary, mistakes that were uncharacteristic of how this team was playing prior... Good coaching makes a HUGE difference... Even with less talented players a good coach can have a defense playing disciplined and at least in the top 15 in the league...
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
96,038
32,785
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Some guy's just aren't good at playing chess, the X's and O's of attacking an offense, putting players in the best position to succeed... Richards was bad at it and so is Norton... Pete is known for letting coordinators be themselves, call the shots, he's known for that, has even talked about it... You could see it right away when Richards took over, confusion in the secondary, mistakes that were uncharacteristic of how this team was playing prior... Good coaching makes a HUGE difference... Even with less talented players a good coach can have a defense playing disciplined and at least in the top 15 in the league...

I guess. We had a No. 1 D the first year he was DC though.

I guess I just don't see playcalling being that big a factor on D. IMO, individual talent is the biggest predictor of defensive effectiveness. Scheme after that. Playcalling is a distant 3.

Hell the Seahawks ran 2 defenses, Cover 3 and outside Man-Zone, pretty much exclusively for the last 10 years. When we had 3 Hall of Famers at the peak of their abilities, we were an elite defense. Now we have 1 Hall of Famer at the end of his career.
 

MrS

Well-Known Member
5,165
862
113
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Robert Saleh should be our next head coach, calling it now.
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I guess. We had a No. 1 D the first year he was DC though.

I guess I just don't see playcalling being that big a factor on D. IMO, individual talent is the biggest predictor of defensive effectiveness. Scheme after that. Playcalling is a distant 3.

Hell the Seahawks ran 2 defenses, Cover 3 and outside Man-Zone, pretty much exclusively for the last 10 years. When we had 3 Hall of Famers at the peak of their abilities, we were an elite defense. Now we have 1 Hall of Famer at the end of his career.

You gotta have talent that's a given, but you also need to call a good game and put players in good positions to succeed ... It's unacceptable to be near the bottom of the league defensively, that's 2 years in a row now our D has just sucked, and it's not like we have no talent... Our D has been utterly gashed by scrub QB's the last 2 years...
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
96,038
32,785
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You gotta have talent that's a given, but you also need to call a good game and put players in good positions to succeed ... It's unacceptable to be near the bottom of the league defensively, that's 2 years in a row now our D has just sucked, and it's not like we have no talent... Our D has been utterly gashed by scrub QB's the last 2 years...

Well I agree that our defense has been poor these past 2 years. I just don't think it is because of Ken Norton. I think it's because we haven't had any pass rush to speak of for the past few years. IMO, it is just ridiculous that a team that is bottom 3 in pass pressure rate is also bottom 3 in blitz frequency. IMO, that is just Pete being stuck in his ways.

Now this should be the first offseason in a long time where the Hawks should have some cash to make some moves. I'd like to see what JS/PC does this offseason to get that pass rush to adequate.
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Well I agree that our defense has been poor these past 2 years. I just don't think it is because of Ken Norton. I think it's because we haven't had any pass rush to speak of for the past few years. IMO, it is just ridiculous that a team that is bottom 3 in pass pressure rate is also bottom 3 in blitz frequency. IMO, that is just Pete being stuck in his ways.

Now this should be the first offseason in a long time where the Hawks should have some cash to make some moves. I'd like to see what JS/PC does this offseason to get that pass rush to adequate.


You gotta admit though, dropping Clowney your best pass rusher into coverage with the season on the line 3rd and long is not playing good chess ... lol ... But yeah, pass rush needs to improve, that starts by resigning Clowney, and definitely not bringing Ansah back..he was a disappointment...
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
96,038
32,785
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You gotta admit though, dropping Clowney your best pass rusher into coverage with the season on the line 3rd and long is not playing good chess ... lol ... But yeah, pass rush needs to improve, that starts by resigning Clowney, and definitely not bringing Ansah back..he was a disappointment...

On its own, it sounds like a bad idea. But, honestly, the Packers were 8-13 on 3rd prior to that play. Clowney was clearly not 100%. If the Hawks defense had been stout all game and they did that, it would be far less defensible.
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
On its own, it sounds like a bad idea. But, honestly, the Packers were 8-13 on 3rd prior to that play. Clowney was clearly not 100%. If the Hawks defense had been stout all game and they did that, it would be far less defensible.

If you’re hurt more reason not to drop you in coverage though vs Rodgers ... You gotta let him rush the passer there... That’s the type of stuff that’s been happening way too much ... Get your fastest and best corners out there, don’t drop Clowney ...
 

MrS

Well-Known Member
5,165
862
113
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Is he bringing the Niners defensive line with him?

He will bring largely the same defensive philosophy without the extremely conservative offense.
 

flyerhawk

Well-Known Member
96,038
32,785
1,033
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Hoboken
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
He will bring largely the same defensive philosophy without the extremely conservative offense.

Didn't the Niners score the 2nd most points in the league this year?
 
Top