Does Haskins suffer from Donovan's syndrome??

kbso83432 said:

I don't think Lock or the kid in Jax would be taking all these sacks and missing wide open receivers for scores the way Haskins did a couple of weeks ago. I revert back to the image I posted, he's in the bottom five of every major category. Is there a guy out there that we could plug in that could do any worse?

Gruden said the guy is not ready and we didn't believe him. Callahan gets the job and was hesitant to put him in there. I hate posting like this because it comes across like I'm rooting for the kid to fail, but on this board it seems like everyone else is fair game when it comes to criticism except Haskins and I don't get that especially considering the circumstances under which he was selected.

Click to expand...

First , with respect to "all of those sacks" can we agree that not all, but some, perhaps the majority are on him?

I don't believe that there are many who are rooting for him to fail, that said, I do believe that there's a historically low level of patience being exhibited towards young QB's these days as if they are stand alone performers. There's also an unevenness in that patience because of demographic reasons. So let's talk about criticism for and against him for a moment.

We currently live in what I call a "30 minute or less" society and as such, there's little patience from some quarters with respect to development. As you've probably noticed some are already calling him a bust and suggesting the team draft another QB.

Others are suggesting that this organization employs patience with him and another off season, pre-season and time into next regular season is the way to go.

I don't get the "circumstances under which he was selected" bit, but my own view on the subject hasn't changed since we drafted you know who in 2012, and that is... If the goal is to be a QB centered offense, then take the time to build that offense around the strengths of the draftee, as Baltimore has done.

Finally, will having those views clash? Absolutely!! and what happens when points of view run against others? Judgements about those points of view, that might include those seemingly standing in defense of the young man.

This is a long response and I wanted to mention a few things about what you've posted about Gruden, Callahan and stats. I'll do that in another post.

kbso83432 said:

The point of my original post wasn't to label Haskins a bust. It's too early for that. I think the point o was trying to make is it feels like we can honestly critique or criticize everyone's play on the roster except for Haskins.

To see posters on here making excuses and actually resort to defending what Dan did on draft day is mind boggling.

I just don't understand all the push back that comes with honestly addressing the fact that Haskins play has been subpar if not terrible this far.

Like he's untouchable on this board.

Click to expand...

It's not that he's untouchable, it's where he's employed that gives rise to what seems to be unfair defense of his obviously poor play. So let's be clear about such rationalizations and why drafting him or any other young QB is problematic. (take note that there will be no mention of this QB or any future QB's until the end.)

1. We know of the dysfunction in the front offices, so we'll skip over that excepting one major thing and that's how well the GM works with his selection at HC.

2. The GM who supposedly hired his HC, must always be in lockstep with what that coach needs to operate his system correct? (ex: if the HC needs a TE that both blocks and catches passes the GM gets him one that fits that system.)

Here's what we actually have:

3. Zero TE's, we don't have an effective blocking TE, an effective pass catching TE, and certainly not one who's able to do both effectively.

4. We have an all pro LT who refuses to play here and a journeyman in his place who's competent at best.

5. A RT who tries but is simply overmatched, especially in pass pro, and who, btw, is averaging one holding call per game.

6. A RG who was once considered to be a staple going forward, actually digressing, in a season in which his personal future financial demands hangs in the balance.

7. A LG who is frankly the best of the bunch. (Thus far this is our first positive)

8. One WR who has the confidence of his HC, one who has the ability to play in the slot but isn't the regular guy there, and a host of rookie or second year guys taking spots and PT intended for skillsets of more highly paid players.

9. Injured or aged RB's who either at the moment cannot be called upon or are one dimensional as starters. (for the record AP is a wonder)

10. A former HC who, named his new draftee the back-up from day one, insisted that "he wasn't ready" and did NOTHING to prepare him in the event that the starter was injured, or had to be pulled.

11. An interim HC who insists upon putting more pressure on his rookie QB than is necessary by running on first and second downs that result in third and long more often than not.

NOW I ask you, if by NFL standards you're pitting your competent to good player numbering 4 or 5 against ANY defense in the league and you literally are a neon sign with respect to play calling, what could possibly go wrong whether you have this QB or any future one at the helm? (Keep in mind that we had a veteran QB in at one point and he was missing shit too!)

Want to talk about the defensive side of the ball?

One other thing, statistics can be used to make a point about anything, what they don't do is provide a means to give full perspective. There's a Pro Football Focus, evaluation of him that makes him look better than what's being portrayed by the given stats. It's a pay site and I'm not going to pay for that.

The 2012 might have had a chance to be Lamar before Lamar but he decided (because of injury maybe) that he wanted to be a drop back QB and the team owner sided with him. Big mistake by both of them.

Evaluations that call someone a bust or a success too early can be way off base. It takes time to learn at the next level. I think any of the QBs drafted in the 1st round this past year is setting the world on fire.

Preparation is on the player and the coach. It is not a one way street.

BTW ... when a certain QB named Cousins was here he got the same treatment in his 2nd, 3rd year when he didn't play very well. For some it never changed. With time he got better.

skinsdad62 said:

Shouldn’t tell us anything . DW has made some good finds

Click to expand...

Our entire organization has failed epically in putting a competitive roster together. Every single GM who is in charge of drafting will hit on a few picks here and there. The overall record is what matters and ours has been awful.

DW would not be an upgrade over Bruce Allen, it will be more of the same. I can’t even comprehend the line of thinking that would lead someone to hire an internal GM candidate and be okay with that.

Stymietee said:

First , with respect to "all of those sacks" can we agree that not all, but some, perhaps the majority are on him?

I don't believe that there are many who are rooting for him to fail, that said, I do believe that there's a historically low level of patience being exhibited towards young QB's these days as if they are stand alone performers. There's also an unevenness in that patience because of demographic reasons. So let's talk about criticism for and against him for a moment.

We currently live in what I call a "30 minute or less" society and as such, there's little patience from some quarters with respect to development. As you've probably noticed some are already calling him a bust and suggesting the team draft another QB.

Others are suggesting that this organization employs patience with him and another off season, pre-season and time into next regular season is the way to go.

I don't get the "circumstances under which he was selected" bit, but my own view on the subject hasn't changed since we drafted you know who in 2012, and that is... If the goal is to be a QB centered offense, then take the time to build that offense around the strengths of the draftee, as Baltimore has done.

Finally, will having those views clash? Absolutely!! and what happens when points of view run against others? Judgements about those points of view, that might include those seemingly standing in defense of the young man.

This is a long response and I wanted to mention a few things about what you've posted about Gruden, Callahan and stats. I'll do that in another post.

Click to expand...

The circumstances in which he was drafted was Dan going in the opposite direction of the draft board that Kyle and the rest of the football people in the building had worked on all year. As far as "demographics reasons," I really hope you aren't suggesting what I think you are. If so, you couldn't be more wrong, when it comes to me at least.

Stymietee said:

It's not that he's untouchable, it's where he's employed that gives rise to what seems to be unfair defense of his obviously poor play. So let's be clear about such rationalizations and why drafting him or any other young QB is problematic. (take note that there will be no mention of this QB or any future QB's until the end.)

1. We know of the dysfunction in the front offices, so we'll skip over that excepting one major thing and that's how well the GM works with his selection at HC.

2. The GM who supposedly hired his HC, must always be in lockstep with what that coach needs to operate his system correct? (ex: if the HC needs a TE that both blocks and catches passes the GM gets him one that fits that system.)

Here's what we actually have:

3. Zero TE's, we don't have an effective blocking TE, an effective pass catching TE, and certainly not one who's able to do both effectively.

4. We have an all pro LT who refuses to play here and a journeyman in his place who's competent at best.

5. A RT who tries but is simply overmatched, especially in pass pro, and who, btw, is averaging one holding call per game.

6. A RG who was once considered to be a staple going forward, actually digressing, in a season in which his personal future financial demands hangs in the balance.

7. A LG who is frankly the best of the bunch. (Thus far this is our first positive)

8. One WR who has the confidence of his HC, one who has the ability to play in the slot but isn't the regular guy there, and a host of rookie or second year guys taking spots and PT intended for skillsets of more highly paid players.

9. Injured or aged RB's who either at the moment cannot be called upon or are one dimensional as starters. (for the record AP is a wonder)

10. A former HC who, named his new draftee the back-up from day one, insisted that "he wasn't ready" and did NOTHING to prepare him in the event that the starter was injured, or had to be pulled.

11. An interim HC who insists upon putting more pressure on his rookie QB than is necessary by running on first and second downs that result in third and long more often than not.

NOW I ask you, if by NFL standards you're pitting your competent to good player numbering 4 or 5 against ANY defense in the league and you literally are a neon sign with respect to play calling, what could possibly go wrong whether you have this QB or any future one at the helm? (Keep in mind that we had a veteran QB in at one point and he was missing shit too!)

Want to talk about the defensive side of the ball?

Click to expand...

I agree with everything you just posted. No sarcasm. However can you agree that for the 15th pick in the draft he should and has to be able to hit wide open receivers. Step, plant, and push off. Not just raise his back leg and expect his arm to do all the work.

tlance said:

Our entire organization has failed epically in putting a competitive roster together. Every single GM who is in charge of drafting will hit on a few picks here and there. The overall record is what matters and ours has been awful.

DW would not be an upgrade over Bruce Allen, it will be more of the same. I can’t even comprehend the line of thinking that would lead someone to hire an internal GM candidate and be okay with that.

Click to expand...

so kyle smith and eric schaffer shouldnt be considered ?

kbso83432 said:

The circumstances in which he was drafted was Dan going in the opposite direction of the draft board that Kyle and the rest of the football people in the building had worked on all year. As far as "demographics reasons," I really hope you aren't suggesting what I think you are. If so, you couldn't be more wrong, when it comes to me at least.

Click to expand...

really big assumption on your part to assume anyone went away from the draft board to draft haskins . i saw plenty of mock drafts having him going in the top ten and if i remember correctly the giants were going to pick him until they settled on jones

you and i have no idea what was on the skins draft board

Stymietee said:

First , with respect to "all of those sacks" can we agree that not all, but some, perhaps the majority are on him?

I don't believe that there are many who are rooting for him to fail, that said, I do believe that there's a historically low level of patience being exhibited towards young QB's these days as if they are stand alone performers. There's also an unevenness in that patience because of demographic reasons. So let's talk about criticism for and against him for a moment.

We currently live in what I call a "30 minute or less" society and as such, there's little patience from some quarters with respect to development. As you've probably noticed some are already calling him a bust and suggesting the team draft another QB.

Others are suggesting that this organization employs patience with him and another off season, pre-season and time into next regular season is the way to go.

I don't get the "circumstances under which he was selected" bit, but my own view on the subject hasn't changed since we drafted you know who in 2012, and that is... If the goal is to be a QB centered offense, then take the time to build that offense around the strengths of the draftee, as Baltimore has done.

Finally, will having those views clash? Absolutely!! and what happens when points of view run against others? Judgements about those points of view, that might include those seemingly standing in defense of the young man.

This is a long response and I wanted to mention a few things about what you've posted about Gruden, Callahan and stats. I'll do that in another post.

Click to expand...

the tape of the packers game clearly shows that 3 of the 4 sacks were on the o/line for getting beat one on one

the 4th sack might have been a protection slide failure on haskins

skinsdad62 said:

so kyle smith and eric schaffer shouldnt be considered ?

Click to expand...

No they definitely do not. At least not in Washington.

They have been part of a front office with arguably the worst culture in professional sports.

If you want change, you go outside the organization. Too much risk nothing changes if you promote internally.

Haskins needs more time, and a stable coaching staff that plays to his strengths while he learns the position.

The reason the redskins defense isnt that great has everything to do with coaching. They have plenty of talent. They are used terribly.

A few offensive linemen, a few skill players who can stay consistently healthy, and who compliment Haskins in a scheme that is tailored to whatever Haskins does well, and this team would be competitive.

SOURCE: Dan Snyder has 'taken over' Redskins' first-round pick | 106.7 The Fan SOURCE: Dan Snyder has 'taken over' Redskins' first-round pick

Daniel Snyder ‘taking over’ Redskins draft in frightening scenario Daniel Snyder ‘taking over’ Redskins draft in frightening scenario

Redskins HC Jay Gruden Reportedly Didn't Want to Draft Dwayne Haskins Redskins HC Jay Gruden Reportedly Didn't Want to Draft Dwayne Haskins

Redskins can't agree on which quarterback they like in NFL Draft | 106.7 The Fan Redskins reportedly can't agree on which QB they like in the draft

tlance said:

No they definitely do not. At least not in Washington.

They have been part of a front office with arguably the worst culture in professional sports.

If you want change, you go outside the organization. Too much risk nothing changes if you promote internally.

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. They may be proficient in certain areas, but we need someone that understands all the facets of building a successful franchise. And culture is a HUGE part of that. As for anyone that has worked for Snyder for more than a couple of years is suspect, as far as I am concerned and part of the problem. They have accepted working in the devastating culture of the Redskins for the way too long. Which means that they could accept that same culture going forward. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Ok so let me get this straight , fm 106 you are sourcing grant Paulsen, the guy who said Haskins blocked him from twitter and is hugely anti Haskins and Snyder and I am to take that as gospel ? From the New York post .

but when you read that there was talk of trading up into the top 5 to get Haskins which supports what I said

look did Snyder want Haskins ? Yes

was there anything more then some typical Disagreement for Haskins in the discussions ? I doubt it

and until I get a real source with a real name put to it I will be skeptical of these reports

I wouldn’t rule out smith or DW . The decision maker was brucifer so who knows what they could be

I also wouldn’t be upset with some one outside either like the pats Cesaro