Where will ODB play next season?

FaCe-LeE-uS · Dec 15, 2019

Dr. Strangelove said:
Yeah, saw your post in the Browns thread. Makes one wonder if they will ever turn that franchise around. As for Odell and the rest of that team makeup, tons of talent but no real leadership or foundation to build on. And need to fix the trenches or all that talent is worthless. OBJ is what he is, a diva WR. Always will be. Would not be one bit surprised to see his career go the same way as T.O. Bounce from team to team, never winning a ring and wearing out his welcome everywhere until teams just say fuck off.

Unreal that they are backing Kitchens after this massive failure of a season. There have been a plethora of examples as to why Kitchens isn't a good HC, especially in situational football. But they must see him as a quick-learner or something? Takes a giant leap of faith.

Leadership & foundation is crucial and takes time. With all the turmoil we're already seeing this year it's hard to imagine them being able to build off this nucleus. Not sayin they can't salvage it, but its hanging on by a thread at the moment. Times like these typically point us to whom the real leaders are within a team, but so far its a mixed bag. Baker is routinely taking jabs at people, their star WR is begging to get out (probably will stop now that there is so much attention to it), and their franchise DE made NFL history in all the wrong ways. And its overshadowing so many GOOD things that this team has done. It's yet another sad state of affairs in Cleveland. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

FaCe-LeE-uS said:
Reports surfacing today that the Browns intend to stick with Kitchens.

Hey, if there's a report it must be true, right?

In all seriousness, as mentioned, might very well be true and think they do stay with him barring maybe an 0-3 finish. I have little faith in the guy as he just doesn't come across as being all that bright. Makes the same clock management mistakes over and over when it comes to end of half and allowing opponent to get the ball back and score before half. First time he did this even said he was right to do it.

Like Baker he cares too much what the media and fans think. which is odd after his "if you don't wear brown and orange you don't matter" comment many fans ate up.

If Dorsey did not hire him I think he'd be gone. But he did.

Ojb81 · Dec 15, 2019

NorEEzta said:
Shimmy shimmy ya, shimmy yam, shimmy yay.

gimme the mic so i can take it away :pound:

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

Dr. Strangelove said:
Yeah, saw your post in the Browns thread. Makes one wonder if they will ever turn that franchise around. As for Odell and the rest of that team makeup, tons of talent but no real leadership or foundation to build on. And need to fix the trenches or all that talent is worthless. OBJ is what he is, a diva WR. Always will be. Would not be one bit surprised to see his career go the same way as T.O. Bounce from team to team, never winning a ring and wearing out his welcome everywhere until teams just say fuck off.

Agree with your first comments. Definitely need some leaders who can focus on football and not care about building their brand. Wish Chubb was the type who would speak up. That guy just focuses on doing his job.....and he does it well.

OBJ can be a diva, no doubt, but not sure how some put him on the level of TO and AB who have openly ripped coach, QB, etc. (and been ripped by the team's QB in AB's case).

But even in what looks like a playoffless season OBJ will get what he wanted.....he'll be talked about all through the offseason.

FaCe-LeE-uS · Dec 15, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Hey, if there's a report it must be true, right?

In all seriousness, as mentioned, might very well be true and think they do stay with him barring maybe an 0-3 finish. I have little faith in the guy as he just doesn't come across as being all that bright. Makes the same clock management mistakes over and over when it comes to end of half and allowing opponent to get the ball back and score before half. First time he did this even said he was right to do it.

Like Baker he cares too much what the media and fans think. which is odd after his "if you don't wear brown and orange you don't matter" comment many fans ate up.

If Dorsey did not hire him I think he'd be gone. But he did.

All "reports" are taken for what they are, until more valid proof surfaces...

Given the short stint Kitchens has had with the Browns overall, it leads me to believe that Kitchens has made a good impression on the FO & ownership. I've heard he's a knowledgeable football guy sotospeak, and has great rapport with his players (evidence by him getting the HC nod so easily)... But to back him like this after such a failure of a season is remarkable. Don't know yet if that is a good or bad thing as time will always tell... But it does take a huge leap of faith to find evidence to support him.

I will say this though... Bucking the historical trend for this franchise should probably be viewed as a good thing overall.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

FaCe-LeE-uS said:
Unreal that they are backing Kitchens after this massive failure of a season. There have been a plethora of examples as to why Kitchens isn't a good HC, especially in situational football. But they must see him as a quick-learner or something? Takes a giant leap of faith.

Leadership & foundation is crucial and takes time. With all the turmoil we're already seeing this year it's hard to imagine them being able to build off this nucleus. Not sayin they can't salvage it, but its hanging on by a thread at the moment. Times like these typically point us to whom the real leaders are within a team, but so far its a mixed bag. Baker is routinely taking jabs at people, their star WR is begging to get out (probably will stop now that there is so much attention to it), and their franchise DE made NFL history in all the wrong ways. And its overshadowing so many GOOD things that this team has done. It's yet another sad state of affairs in Cleveland. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Other than the OBJ mention mostly agree and wish I didn't.

As mentioned earlier, Kitchens just isn't very bright and not in an area I think can change by learning on the job. He's just dumb.

Before he came here and all through last season seems like everyone who played with Baker thought of him as a leader. And in some ways he is. But it's time he grows up, IMO. Claims he doesn't care what others think, then tries to explain his actions and seems to care way too much what others think. The "everyone is against me and no one believes in me" narrative is overplayed. The guy was the Heisman winner and #1 pick in the draft.

"Sad state of affairs" might be a little overblown as they still look like they can improve on last year's record and did so with a tough schedule (sure was looking that way at 2-6, though). Problem was all the hype that was mostly not their own (though some was).

In addition to Kitchens being a problem, some of the luster has also run off of Dorsey IMO. He needs a much better offseason in 2020 than he had in 2019.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

FaCe-LeE-uS said:
All "reports" are taken for what they are, until more valid proof surfaces...

Given the short stint Kitchens has had with the Browns overall, it leads me to believe that Kitchens has made a good impression on the FO & ownership. I've heard he's a knowledgeable football guy sotospeak, and has great rapport with his players (evidence by him getting the HC nod so easily)... But to back him like this after such a failure of a season is remarkable. Don't know yet if that is a good or bad thing as time will always tell... But it does take a huge leap of faith to find evidence to support him.

I will say this though... Bucking the historical trend for this franchise should probably be viewed as a good thing overall.

Yes and no, I think, to that last comment. No doubt stability is needed, but not just for the sake of stability. They are in a win now mode with their talent and top players still under rookie deals. IF they don't have faith in Freddie they need to cut bait.

And I've asked many of his supporters to point to just one thing he's done that makes you think he's the right guy. Haven't gotten an answer from anyone.

why they hired Freddie? That is what really concerns me. I believe they want to make sure they appease Baker, which is a problem as he is the player and not exactly established. Also, I think Dorsey didn't want a Reid situation and wanted someone he could control.

As for the reports? Usually in this situation it seems a team says they are keeping their guy.....until they don't.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

SteelersPride said:
You can’t change stupid, I’m not
Gonna try to again.

I tried....didn't work.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

SteelersPride said:
No! He has pages of posts to the contrary. If you say something that makes sense, well he says something naive.

Glazer and guys like him said Browns were taking Trubisky #1 hours before draft. Another well respected insider - Peter King - had a report saying "no way Dorsey passes on Josh Allen"

"No Way" Browns GM John Dorsey Passes On Josh Allen At No. 1 Overall? | NFLTradeRumors.co

It's OK to think for yourself, and not believe all rumors.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

SteelersPride said:
Right, let the distractions continue.its good for the team

Better for the team to just release a PB and maybe HOF caliber player? why not just tell me earlier you have no interest in rational discussion?

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

NinerSickness said:
A slightly-related point: I don't think distractions are this team's problems. I think they chose a lightweight to be the head coach. Wasn't a fan of that move from day 1.

Admittedly I didn't hate it at the time. Only thing I said was I hope they didn't let a better option go because that person wouldn't keep Freddie as OC.

Have a feeling this happened. Never even held a real search.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

Ricky Roma said:
I originally phrased it badly...that is on me, I admit. I don't think they'll cut him outright, but I also don't think Cleveland will get in return what they gave up to get Beckham. Amari Cooper's trade really has nothing to do with it...that was Dallas/Oakland doing something stupid to trade a guy who is far less problematic than Beckham.

As I originally stated in this thread....I want nothing to do with OBJ in SF....and I'm sure there are a lot of others who feel similarly as I do in regards to their team as well.

I don't agree he is the issue the other WRs being mentioned are, but could understand why you wouldn't want him as your team is doing just fine without him.

Hell, knowing what we know, seems the Browns would be better off having used their pick on DK Metcalf (as well as keeping Peppers and the 3rd rounder) than trading for OBJ.

But now that they have him, I don't see them moving on unless they get back what they want....at least through next season.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

FaCe-LeE-uS said:
everyone else - "He's toxic. He's asking to get out. There's reports & video evidence to support this"
you - "if you say so... unnamed sources"

Herpa derpity derp.

"No Way" Browns GM John Dorsey Passes On Josh Allen At No. 1 Overall? | NFLTradeRumors.co

why do we keep talking about Baker as a Brown?

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

FaCe-LeE-uS said:
Careful... You're talking to Mr. Gullible himself who is sporting his white knightly armor.

Not only are there reports, but theres a video of him talking with Jimmy G about it. But the homer still refutes it by saying his best friend (Landry) and captian (Baker) both claim that he wants to be in Cleveland.

I get it's part of your irrational not to understand anything that refutes his comments but I'll try again. Homer?

I have ripped the GM for hiring Freddie, and ripped Freddie. Even said we'd be better off having not made the trade and just used the pick on DK Metcalf (and kept Peppers and the 3rd). I've ripped Baker for not being able to shut his mouth.

A homer for not blindly believing a report from unnamed sources?

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

FaCe-LeE-uS said:
Yea that's a pretty big slap in the face to all his teammates that are buying into building that team into a contender. Clearly his teammates are trying to salvage the relationship by sticking up for him. But if that relationship isn't a 2-way street then they would be best served to trade the guy. No way you want that sort of toxic poison to reside in your lockerroom.

As for the fans... Definitely. Most around here have been level-headed about it. Just 1 that doesn't have the mental resolve to digest it.

That 1 says "Knowing what we know, better off not to have made the deal for him". But doesn't believe reports from unnamed sources.

Care to hear other "reports" that did not come to fruition? Or do you think Josh Allen is on the Browns?

Here's another from Shefter.....

Browns might *seriously* pass on Myles Garrett for Mitchell Trubisky at No. 1

“But I have got very smart, very well-connected people telling me over the last 24 hours that they think Trubisky’s going to be the No. 1 pick.”

But you go ahead and believe every report you see/hear.

Stakesarehigh · Dec 15, 2019

Ricky Roma said:
I originally phrased it badly...that is on me, I admit. I don't think they'll cut him outright, but I also don't think Cleveland will get in return what they gave up to get Beckham. Amari Cooper's trade really has nothing to do with it...that was Dallas/Oakland doing something stupid to trade a guy who is far less problematic than Beckham.

As I originally stated in this thread....I want nothing to do with OBJ in SF....and I'm sure there are a lot of others who feel similarly as I do in regards to their team as well.

It's not just Amari Cooper it's 1.5 years of Amari Cooper. As to four years for Beckham

That's a substantial difference

I can appreciate you not wanting OBJ the thing I don't like is that it becomes so much about his targets it's overwhelming

Stakesarehigh · Dec 15, 2019

dtgold88 said:
I think they also traded a 3rd as well.

They wont get that much, but a 1st is possible, especially if it's from a team at the end of that round.

They did and I agree on no third

FaCe-LeE-uS · Dec 15, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Other than the OBJ mention mostly agree and wish I didn't.

As mentioned earlier, Kitchens just isn't very bright and not in an area I think can change by learning on the job. He's just dumb.

Before he came here and all through last season seems like everyone who played with Baker thought of him as a leader. And in some ways he is. But it's time he grows up, IMO. Claims he doesn't care what others think, then tries to explain his actions and seems to care way too much what others think. The "everyone is against me and no one believes in me" narrative is overplayed. The guy was the Heisman winner and #1 pick in the draft.

"Sad state of affairs" might be a little overblown as they still look like they can improve on last year's record and did so with a tough schedule (sure was looking that way at 2-6, though). Problem was all the hype that was mostly not their own (though some was).

In addition to Kitchens being a problem, some of the luster has also run off of Dorsey IMO. He needs a much better offseason in 2020 than he had in 2019.

Is it really overblown though? Seems like Cleveland just keeps finding new ways to prevent itself from building something special. Last year had the look & feel of "great things to come". I'll admit the offseason hype train was ridiculous & it certainly set a precedent for apparent failure, even if it was warranted given the unreal amount of talent they acquired. But the turmoil is what will be remembered the most. After the memory of all the hype fades, I think most people will just remember the Browns 2019 season as one filled with turmoil.

Speaking of Dorsey... Whats the deal with the reports of letting Schobert walk? Seems to me like they should focus on retaining the real, hard-working talent and try to quiet all the noise. Letting Schobert walk would be a mistake IMO.

dtgold88 said:
Yes and no, I think, to that last comment. No doubt stability is needed, but not just for the sake of stability. They are in a win now mode with their talent and top players still under rookie deals. IF they don't have faith in Freddie they need to cut bait.

And I've asked many of his supporters to point to just one thing he's done that makes you think he's the right guy. Haven't gotten an answer from anyone.

why they hired Freddie? That is what really concerns me. I believe they want to make sure they appease Baker, which is a problem as he is the player and not exactly established. Also, I think Dorsey didn't want a Reid situation and wanted someone he could control.

As for the reports? Usually in this situation it seems a team says they are keeping their guy.....until they don't.

Cleveland should be able to retain &/or extend the window for the distant future, so IDK about win-now mode. There are always growing pains when building a nucleus. Not all the planets are going to align perfectly. But then again, our teams have very different views on what sort of window of opportunity they have given the current state of the teams.

dtgold88 · Dec 15, 2019

Stakesarehigh said:
It's not just Amari Cooper it's 1.5 years of Amari Cooper. As to four years for Beckham

That's a substantial difference

I can appreciate you not wanting OBJ the thing I don't like is that it becomes so much about his targets it's overwhelming

Clearly, Wiley was right about his comments and he, Zampese, Saunders played a huge role in the success of offense last year. Just threw to who was open last year. wonder what happened to Higgins. Something we aren't being told.

SteelersPride · Dec 15, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Better for the team to just release a PB and maybe HOF caliber player? why not just tell me earlier you have no interest in rational discussion?

did i say that? i cant have a rational discussion with an irrational thinker.

Where will ODB play next season?

Where will Odell Beckham play next season?

Cleveland

New England

San Francisco

Oakland

Talk his way out of the NFL like AB

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