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Hot Stove 2020

California Creme Puffs

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The good news is he has averaged over 6 innings a start for the last 2 years which they desperately need. Still would have rather had Hamels. And I'm a little scared of his splits. You know that ball flies out to right field. Hopefully this won't be like last year where they forget to get a LH starter til the season is almost over, then bring in Smyly and Vargas. I can't handle another series where the Dodgers come in roll out their lefty lineup and score 50 runs off of Eflin and company.
The way I look at it

1. We need starting pitching
2. It's only (can't believe I'm using that word) a 5 year/$118 million deal

I'd rather have Wheeler at 5 years than Cole or Strasburg at 7 or 8 and $200+ million. You and I know that giving starting pitchers long-term contracts is not a great idea, but in this day and age, it's a necessity if you want to get quality pitchers, so I'd rather minimize the length and money if possible when getting top of the line guys.

He's definitely followed a strange career trajectory, and injuries for a guy who's already had Tommy John and throws 97 is a real and legitimate concern. But he's been healthy the last two years, and in those two healthy seasons, he's been pretty damn good. Among pitchers who've pitched 250 innings from 2018-2019, he's 10th out of 90 qualified pitchers in WAR, 12th in innings pitched, 15th in FIP (21st in FIP-), and 23rd in ERA (though he was 42nd in ERA-, meaning he was probably helped by his ballpark and pitching in the NL). He's also a pretty impressive 10th out of those 90 pitchers in Soft% (the percentage of balls that are hit off him that have a low exit velocity).

My point is, if he's healthy, I don't think he's going to be another Arrieta (who was a gamble and was already showing lots of signs of regression) even with CBP's short right field. (If you're curious, Arrieta is one of those 90 pitchers who threw 250 innings from 2018-2019. He is 73rd in WAR, 51st in IP, 71st in FIP, 70th in FIP-, 62nd in ERA, 63rd in ERA-, and 51st in Soft%)

I think Wheeler is a good signing. And honestly, Klentak has done a fine job of landing free agent talent. We'll call Carlos Santana a wash bordering on decent/good signing, Arrieta didn't work out, McCutchen (IMO) is a good signing, Harper (IMO) is a good signing. The issue is his ability (or lack thereof) to get talent from the margins. Anybody can sign Bryce Harper to a $330 million contract- he was the only superstar left on the market for a team that needed talent and they gave him the richest contract in sports history up until that point. It's a lot harder to get 3 and 4 WAR players for $800,000 on rookie contracts. If you notice, the Braves and Nats seemingly do this every year while only occasionally dabbling in big free agent signings (@Chewbaccer can tell you all about their FO's lack of balls when it comes to the free agent market).

I will say that Klentak did do a great job with the Realmuto trade (regardless of how Sixto Sanchez turns out). He needs to make more of those moves.
 

Nasty_Magician

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I look forward to your constant bitching when he doesn't do what you want him to do.

And not just from you either, from ALL Mets fans.

Hey I reserve the right to ignorantly bitch about things I don't understand.
 

Cedrique

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The way I look at it

1. We need starting pitching
2. It's only (can't believe I'm using that word) a 5 year/$118 million deal

I'd rather have Wheeler at 5 years than Cole or Strasburg at 7 or 8 and $200+ million. You and I know that giving starting pitchers long-term contracts is not a great idea, but in this day and age, it's a necessity if you want to get quality pitchers, so I'd rather minimize the length and money if possible when getting top of the line guys.

He's definitely followed a strange career trajectory, and injuries for a guy who's already had Tommy John and throws 97 is a real and legitimate concern. But he's been healthy the last two years, and in those two healthy seasons, he's been pretty damn good. Among pitchers who've pitched 250 innings from 2018-2019, he's 10th out of 90 qualified pitchers in WAR, 12th in innings pitched, 15th in FIP (21st in FIP-), and 23rd in ERA (though he was 42nd in ERA-, meaning he was probably helped by his ballpark and pitching in the NL). He's also a pretty impressive 10th out of those 90 pitchers in Soft% (the percentage of balls that are hit off him that have a low exit velocity).

My point is, if he's healthy, I don't think he's going to be another Arrieta (who was a gamble and was already showing lots of signs of regression) even with CBP's short right field. (If you're curious, Arrieta is one of those 90 pitchers who threw 250 innings from 2018-2019. He is 73rd in WAR, 51st in IP, 71st in FIP, 70th in FIP-, 62nd in ERA, 63rd in ERA-, and 51st in Soft%)

I think Wheeler is a good signing. And honestly, Klentak has done a fine job of landing free agent talent. We'll call Carlos Santana a wash bordering on decent/good signing, Arrieta didn't work out, McCutchen (IMO) is a good signing, Harper (IMO) is a good signing. The issue is his ability (or lack thereof) to get talent from the margins. Anybody can sign Bryce Harper to a $330 million contract- he was the only superstar left on the market for a team that needed talent and they gave him the richest contract in sports history up until that point. It's a lot harder to get 3 and 4 WAR players for $800,000 on rookie contracts. If you notice, the Braves and Nats seemingly do this every year while only occasionally dabbling in big free agent signings (@Chewbaccer can tell you all about their FO's lack of balls when it comes to the free agent market).

I will say that Klentak did do a great job with the Realmuto trade (regardless of how Sixto Sanchez turns out). He needs to make more of those moves.
Yeah, he's done alright, and yes shocking as it seems 5 years 118 isn't going to kill them as long as Wheeler is at least not injured and average or better. He actually has a better won-loss record (which I know you value highly) than his teammate who won the Cy Young award the last couple years. I still think a lot of the Braves pickups have been even better though. The one year deal to Donaldson was huge for them last year and I like the Hamels deal.
Speaking of 3 and 4 WAR players, Jonathan Villar put up a 4 last year. He might have been a decent pickup and an upgrade over Hail Cesar. Fun fact, the Phillies drafted both Villar and Domingo Santana. Both got shipped off to the Astros in separate deals for Pence and Oswalt. Why does it seem like that was so long ago?
 

Pure Steel

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I remain highly skeptical, but I'll happily eat my words.


IMO, he and Boras are just trying to drive the price up for one of the SoCal teams.

Yup, have to drive through NY to get the bidding war started......
 

rsw626

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Yeah, that's a lot of scratch for a guy who's not on the same level IMO as the front line starters available.

Somewhat surprised he stayed in the division. I'm reading the White Sox offered him more and he passed.

I lol'd seeing Wheeler turned down more money from the White Sux!

Can't blame him, have you ever BEEN to the Southside of Chicago? :D
 

Nasty_Magician

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I feel like the past 2 days have been more active and entertaining than the first 2 months of last offseason.
 

kburjr

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Looks like the Brewers are going to get Omar Naevaez C from the Mariners in a trade. 120 OPS+ to replace Grandal 118 OPS+. Terrible defensively so it looks like a clone coming along. He's turning 28 in Feb and 4 years service time. He ahas a history of a lot of PB(3 last year but 12 in 2018) but maybe that is behind him.
 
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