White Sox pursuing Wheeler

Jiddy · Nov 21, 2019

I believe this rumor as it makes a lot of sense for what we're trying to do and who we are.

A lot of above average players can add up to an A team if you do it right.

Nosferatu · Nov 21, 2019

Congrats on Grandal :suds:

Lake Shore Drive · Nov 21, 2019

Jiddy said:
I believe this rumor as it makes a lot of sense for what we're trying to do and who we are.

A lot of above average players can add up to an A team if you do it right.

There are supposedly 4 teams in total actively trying to ink Wheeler, with the Sox being one of those clubs. So the FO will have to pony up to land him. That would make for a huge signing on our end if they can get it done.

richig07 · Nov 21, 2019

Was just about to start this thread.

Want the next Gerrit Cole? It might be this guy

idseer · Nov 22, 2019

let me know when he's signed.

Lake Shore Drive · Nov 24, 2019

The latest scuttlebut is that the Sox so far have offered the largest contract for Wheeler's services. Of course that's just so far and nothing's etched in stone. It's encouraging no doubt, but until he signs on the dotted line, it's just wishful thinking at this point. C'mon Sox, get er done.

Jiddy · Nov 25, 2019

Lake Shore Drive said:
The latest scuttlebut is that the Sox so far have offered the largest contract for Wheeler's services. Of course that's just so far and nothing's etched in stone. It's encouraging no doubt, but until he signs on the dotted line, it's just wishful thinking at this point. C'mon Sox, get er done.

If we truly want this guy, the longer it goes, the worse our position will be...That is certainty. So yeah...Sooner the better.

BigKen · Nov 25, 2019

It's rumored up here that the White Sox might be offering their entire farm system for Mookie Betts.

Jiddy · Nov 25, 2019

BigKen said:
It's rumored up here that the White Sox might be offering their entire farm system for Mookie Betts.

Do you know any of the specific players being rumored? Or just that it's a big haul?

Lake Shore Drive · Nov 25, 2019

BigKen said:
It's rumored up here that the White Sox might be offering their entire farm system for Mookie Betts.

And that's all they are, rumors. Now way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks that the White Sox are going to give away their cream of the crop for a one year rental, no matter how good he is. Williams may be that stupid, but not Hahn and he's the one handling the offseason transactions.

idseer · Nov 25, 2019

Lake Shore Drive said:
And that's all they are, rumors. ...... but not Hahn and he's the one handling the offseason transactions.

i have never felt comfortably certain that this is true.

Lake Shore Drive · Nov 25, 2019

idseer said:
i have never felt comfortably certain that this is true.

I agree that Hahn likely doesn't have the final word on just about any transaction and certainly not a major decision, but everything I've read to date indicates that he and his staff are the ones putting in all the legwork. Reinsdorf and Williams are simply placing their yes or no stamps on what Hahn comes up with.

idseer · Nov 25, 2019

Lake Shore Drive said:
I agree that Hahn likely doesn't have the final word on just about any transaction and certainly not a major decision, but everything I've read to date indicates that he and his staff are the ones putting in all the legwork. Reinsdorf and Williams are simply placing their yes or no stamps on what Hahn comes up with.

key word there is "simply",

BigKen · Nov 25, 2019

Lake Shore Drive said:
And that's all they are, rumors. Now way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks that the White Sox are going to give away their cream of the crop for a one year rental, no matter how good he is. Williams may be that stupid, but not Hahn and he's the one handling the offseason transactions.

Betts refused a $300M deal two years from the end of his rookie contract and got arbitration for $13M. He and Boras are looking to break the piggy bank but Betts had an off-year in 2019. If he wants the $400M+ contract he has to be the MVP in 2020. None the less, the White Sox are rumored to willing to give up the youngsters that the Red Sox want. Betts may be a one year rental but if he helps the White Sox win the World Series then it'll be worth it to them. There are alot of people who don't want the Red Sox to rade Betts but Boras and The Red Sox have never been best buds. I'd ship his ass out for pennies on the dollar.

Lake Shore Drive · Nov 25, 2019

BigKen said:
Betts refused a $300M deal two years from the end of his rookie contract and got arbitration for $13M. He and Boras are looking to break the piggy bank but Betts had an off-year in 2019. If he wants the $400M+ contract he has to be the MVP in 2020. None the less, the White Sox are rumored to willing to give up the youngsters that the Red Sox want. Betts may be a one year rental but if he helps the White Sox win the World Series then it'll be worth it to them. There are alot of people who don't want the Red Sox to rade Betts but Boras and The Red Sox have never been best buds. I'd ship his ass out for pennies on the dollar.

Where I bolded your sentence, I couldn't agree more. And I'll cite our crosstown rivals, the Cubs, as an example of such. They traded one of the top prospects in the minors, Gleyber Torres, to the Yankees for just a half season's services of Aroldis Chapman. Yet that half season helped give the Cubs their WS title. Was that worth it? My guess is every Cub fan on the planet would say yes, even tho since then Torres has gone on to becoming one of the better young players in the game today (and not to mention of course the Yanks have Chapman back in the fold).

If I thought for one second that Betts would put the White Sox in immediate WS contention, I'd have no problems giving up some serious prospect talents for him. But we're not as far along as the Cubs were when they made their trade. This is why I highly doubt the Sox brass will pull the trigger for Betts, at least not give up their top ML talent for his one lone year of service.

Jiddy · Nov 26, 2019

Lake Shore Drive said:
Where I bolded your sentence, I couldn't agree more. And I'll cite our crosstown rivals, the Cubs, as an example of such. They traded one of the top prospects in the minors, Gleyber Torres, to the Yankees for just a half season's services of Aroldis Chapman. Yet that half season helped give the Cubs their WS title. Was that worth it? My guess is every Cub fan on the planet would say yes, even tho since then Torres has gone on to becoming one of the better young players in the game today (and not to mention of course the Yanks have Chapman back in the fold).

If I thought for one second that Betts would put the White Sox in immediate WS contention, I'd have no problems giving up some serious prospect talents for him. But we're not as far along as the Cubs were when they made their trade. This is why I highly doubt the Sox brass will pull the trigger for Betts, at least not give up their top ML talent for his one lone year of service.

They would do something like this at the break when we're 10 games up on the division and playing well...not in the offseason following up a .450 season where your only addition thus far was a decent catcher.

richig07 · Nov 26, 2019

Jiddy said:
They would do something like this at the break when we're 10 games up on the division and playing well...not in the offseason following up a .450 season where your only addition thus far was a decent catcher.

- What other team has added more than that at this point? Especially when you factor in Abreu. Before winter meetings? Has there even been a bigger free agent acquisition than Grandal?

- Do "decent" catchers finish...

2nd in WAR among catchers (5.2 to Realmuto's 5.7)
1st in WRC+ (121 to Realmuto's 108).
#1 in offensive WAR
#3 in defensive WAR
#1 in OBP
#1 in wOBA
#1 in ISO
#1 HR's

... among catchers?

Major League Leaderboards » 2019 » Catchers » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

Is that decent? Or really, really f'n good? Asking for a friend. Thanks

idseer · Nov 26, 2019

richig07 said:
- What other team has added more than that at this point? Especially when you factor in Abreu. Before winter meetings? Has there even been a bigger free agent acquisition than Grandal?

- Do "decent" catchers finish...

2nd in WAR among catchers (5.2 to Realmuto's 5.7)
1st in WRC+ (121 to Realmuto's 108).
#1 in offensive WAR
#3 in defensive WAR
#1 in OBP
#1 in wOBA
#1 in ISO
#1 HR's

... among catchers?

Major League Leaderboards » 2019 » Catchers » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

Is that decent? Or really, really f'n good? Asking for a friend. Thanks

imo it's "decent".
first let's look at things other than the cherry-picked stats:
last in batting average amongst 6 eligible catchers (106th overall)
1st in k's (139)
7th in fielding %
3rd in most errors made
17th in assists
5th in passed balls (amongst 6 eligible starters)
6th in cs%
95th in dwar (looking at all catchers even non-qualified)

as for hr's for catchers ... nice to have but not outstanding either.
wrc? iso? woba? bogus stats imo.

and yet, in deference to many here .... i'll still say he's a decent pickup but that we way over-paid for what he will mean to this team.

richig07 · Nov 26, 2019

idseer said:
imo it's "decent".
first let's look at things other than the cherry-picked stats:
last in batting average amongst 6 eligible catchers (106th overall)
1st in k's (139)
7th in fielding %
3rd in most errors made
17th in assists
5th in passed balls (amongst 6 eligible starters)
6th in cs%
95th in dwar (looking at all catchers even non-qualified)

as for hr's for catchers ... nice to have but not outstanding either.
wrc? iso? woba? bogus stats imo.

and yet, in deference to many here .... i'll still say he's a decent pickup but that we way over-paid for what he will mean to this team.

Yes, and WAR/WRC+ takes all of that into account. So, what's your point? The least cherry picked metrics you could use. They're all encompassing.

Grandal/Brewers were also #1 in defensive runs above average among catchers and frame-rate.

Major League Team Stats » 2019 » Catchers » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

The stats your using are very poor for evaluating a catcher.

wrc? iso? woba? bogus stats imo.

The only person who could POSSIBLY formulate this thought is someone who doesn't know what they mean. ISO and wOBA is actually incredibly simple.

richig07 · Nov 26, 2019

How is creating runs "bogus"? How is weighted on base average "bogus"? Good lord.

This forum just invents ways to be dense.

"This pickup sucks because we suck... and since we did it... it's meh."

Good god. The guy was a top catcher by EVERY valuable metric. He had a 5.2 fWAR. Holy good god... what planet is this?

White Sox pursuing Wheeler

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