2019-20 Quest for the cup(The Carter Hart era begins)

dspice07 · Jun 18, 2019

lasgop8 said:
This trade is bull shit i cant believe what is going on right now!@!

I told you my fear he is the second coming of Homer! No perception of the value of draft picks. No idea of how to evaluate player value and cap. I am worried.

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

EVille3 said:
I'm honestly dumbfounded right now. Niskanen/Gudas made sense on some levels. This one is completely baffling.

1 million percent agree !!!!

This is a terrible trade i cant even say this trade is a precursor to something else.

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

dspice07 said:
I told you my fear he is the second coming of Homer! No perception of the value of draft picks. No idea of how to evaluate player value and cap. I am worried.

You were right on the money. This is very disheartening.

dspice07 · Jun 18, 2019

lasgop8 said:
You were right on the money. This is very disheartening.

Which one of our dmen is going for 10 cents on the dollar :doh:

purdue81 · Jun 18, 2019

EVille3 said:
I'm honestly dumbfounded right now. Niskanen/Gudas made sense on some levels. This one is completely baffling.

Braun was a top 4 at San Jose. Niskanen a top 4 at Washington. Both teams easily better than the Flyers.

Could the logic be:
These guys make the Flyers D better. How much is debatable, but they do make the Flyers at least marginally better on D. You gave up Gudas and 2 picks... IMHO that's not a big deal. From Fletcher's point of view (I'm speculating LAS as I do not have regular conversations with Fletcher) he has made the Flyers more competitive in the short run. Has not taken the flyers back to CAP hell.... 2 years on Niskanen, 1 year on Braun. That buys the Flyers 1 & 2 years to develop the young D-men in the system. They are more competitive in the short run, and if these guys 'bust' he can just walk away or get compensation if either go to Seattle in expansion draft and replace with now more fully developed D-men.

I wouldn't have touched E Karlsson with a 10 foot pole. Groin surgeries are not always successful and how many players have lost speed / agility after nagging groins ?

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

dspice07 said:
Which one of our dmen is going for 10 cents on the dollar

Even we on this board know this is a bad trade how could the guys who get paid for a living to do this not know it was a really bad trade. :tsk:

raptorlife4 · Jun 18, 2019

I think Braun is a good pickup however the price was a bit steep.
Lets see who gets shipped out and for what

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

purdue81 said:
Braun was a top 4 at San Jose. Niskanen a top 4 at Washington. Both teams easily better than the Flyers.

Could the logic be:
These guys make the Flyers D better. How much is debatable, but they do make the Flyers at least marginally better on D. You gave up Gudas and 2 picks... IMHO that's not a big deal. From Fletcher's point of view (I'm speculating LAS as I do not have regular conversations with Fletcher) he has made the Flyers more competitive in the short run. Has not taken the flyers back to CAP hell.... 2 years on Niskanen, 1 year on Braun. That buys the Flyers 1 & 2 years to develop the young D-men in the system. They are more competitive in the short run, and if these guys 'bust' he can just walk away or get compensation if either go to Seattle in expansion draft and replace with now more fully developed D-men.

I wouldn't have touched E Karlsson with a 10 foot pole. Groin surgeries are not always successful and how many players have lost speed / agility after nagging groins ?

Braun for a 2nd and 3rd is a bad deal i dont care how you want to try to spin this.

awaz · Jun 18, 2019

purdue81 said:
Braun was a top 4 at San Jose. Niskanen a top 4 at Washington. Both teams easily better than the Flyers.

Could the logic be:
These guys make the Flyers D better. How much is debatable, but they do make the Flyers at least marginally better on D. You gave up Gudas and 2 picks... IMHO that's not a big deal. From Fletcher's point of view (I'm speculating LAS as I do not have regular conversations with Fletcher) he has made the Flyers more competitive in the short run. Has not taken the flyers back to CAP hell.... 2 years on Niskanen, 1 year on Braun. That buys the Flyers 1 & 2 years to develop the young D-men in the system. They are more competitive in the short run, and if these guys 'bust' he can just walk away or get compensation if either go to Seattle in expansion draft and replace with now more fully developed D-men.

I agree with this. He's significantly improved the defense by trading Gudas, a 2nd, and a 3rd. There's no crazy contract in there, no promising young NHL-ers, no 1st round picks, and no prospects. They're balanced LH and RH now, they've added 209 playoff games worth of experience (their 2 most experienced playoff guys), they added stay at home guys to bolster the PK and act as anchors for some of their more offensively minded young dmen.

The price for Braun seems a little steep. But the Flyers are better again today than they were yesterday.

awaz · Jun 18, 2019

It seems pretty clear that Fletcher doesn't think the team was missing top end talent. In his estimation, they were missing depth. And he's addressing that.

I have been a big proponent of the big splash too. I wanted Kopitar! But he is incrementally improving the team. And he's doing so without a firesale on the future. He hasn't moved a 1st round pick. He hasn't committed to massive contracts on older players. And he hasn't moved a major prospect or young player.

To make big splashes, you have to move big pieces. Whether it's young players, prized prospects, or major cap dollars. He seems to have decided he doesn't want to do that, he would rather make marginal improvements.

Homer moved young players, prized prospects, and major cap dollars to chase the biggest names available. In that regard, Fletcher is exactly the opposite of Homer. He's just aggressive like Homer.

raptorlife4 · Jun 18, 2019

solid top 4 dmen are not cheap either

purdue81 · Jun 18, 2019

lasgop8 said:
Braun for a 2nd and 3rd is a bad deal i dont care how you want to try to spin this.

Likely a bad deal just looking at it as a standalone. I however do see a logic to it.

awaz · Jun 18, 2019

raptorlife4 said:
I think Braun is a good pickup however the price was a bit steep.
Lets see who gets shipped out and for what

I don't necessarily think this means someone has to be shipped out. Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers, Braun, and Niskanen are your top 6. Hagg is your 7.

Morin is a complete unknown. He's 6 years removed from his draft now and has missed the better part of the last 2 years. He's played 20 hockey games in 2 years and has 8 career NHL games. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they waived him to send him to the minors this season. And it wouldn't surprise me if it passed through unclaimed.

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

awaz said:
I agree with this. He's significantly improved the defense by trading Gudas, a 2nd, and a 3rd. There's no crazy contract in there, no promising young NHL-ers, no 1st round picks, and no prospects. They're balanced LH and RH now, they've added 209 playoff games worth of experience (their 2 most experienced playoff guys), they added stay at home guys to bolster the PK and act as anchors for some of their more offensively minded young dmen.

The price for Braun seems a little steep. But the Flyers are better again today than they were yesterday.

The Sharks just paid a boat load of money for Karlsson and needed to move someone for cap space to sign guys like Pavelski. He was expendable for them and we paid way too much for a player that needed to go.

JBM73 · Jun 18, 2019

A slight overpay perhaps, but not significantly so for one half of one of the best shutdown pairings (Vlasic-Braun) in the league prior to last season (an off year). Niskanen, Braun and Hayes (fingers crossed) all help the PK as well. Ghost stays. They need him for the PP and Fletcher hasn't shown himself to be a sell-low guy yet. One of Hagg/Morin may be moved, might be Morin as Hagg can play both LD and RD but Morin only plays LD.

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Hayes-Voracek
Lindblom-Patrick-J.Williams
Raffl-Laughton-Hartman

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Braun
Gostisbehere-Myers

Hart

Hmmmm...PK fixed? Check. Center depth fixed? Check. Leadership/experience void filled? Check. Overall 5-on-5 defense improved without sacrificing offense? Check. Prospect pool still strong? Check. Future cap flexibility retained? Check.

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

awaz said:
I don't necessarily think this means someone has to be shipped out. Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers, Braun, and Niskanen are your top 6. Hagg is your 7.

Morin is a complete unknown. He's 6 years removed from his draft now and has missed the better part of the last 2 years. He's played 20 hockey games in 2 years and has 8 career NHL games. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they waived him to send him to the minors this season. And it wouldn't surprise me if it passed through unclaimed.

At this point i wouldn't be surprised if the Flyers waived Morin to send him down but i would be 100% surprised if he went unclaimed.

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

JBM73 said:
A slight overpay perhaps, but not significantly so for one half of one of the best shutdown pairings (Vlasic-Braun) in the league prior to last season (an off year). Niskanen, Braun and Hayes (fingers crossed) all help the PK as well. Ghost stays. They need him for the PP and Fletcher hasn't shown himself to be a sell-low guy yet. One of Hagg/Morin may be moved, might be Morin as Hagg can play both LD and RD but Morin only plays LD.

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Hayes-Voracek
Lindblom-Patrick-J.Williams
Raffl-Laughton-Hartman

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Braun
Gostisbehere-Myers

Hart

Hmmmm...PK fixed? Check. Center depth fixed? Check. Leadership/experience void filled? Check. Overall 5-on-5 defense improved without sacrificing offense? Check. Prospect pool still strong? Check. Future cap flexibility retained? Check.

Did the Flyers sign Hayes? If not center depth not checked yet.

lasgop8 · Jun 18, 2019

purdue81 said:
Likely a bad deal just looking at it as a standalone. I however do see a logic to it.

I do also but i think if we were going to trade those picks we could've packaged them and gotten a defenseman like Trouba or someone of that caliber.

awaz · Jun 18, 2019

lasgop8 said:
The Sharks just paid a boat load of money for Karlsson and needed to move someone for cap space to sign guys like Pavelski. He was expendable for them and we paid way too much for a player that needed to go.

Just because the Sharks needed to move him doesn't mean he doesn't have value. He was 4th among dmen in TOI in the playoffs on a very good Sharks team. He started almost 60% of his shifts in the dzone (1st on the team). He played on their top PK unit.

Even if the Sharks wanted to move him, it doesn't mean teams other than the Flyers weren't also looking to acquire him. For all we know, there were a bunch of other teams that were offering a 2nd+ as well.

Chris p Bacon · Jun 18, 2019

awaz said:
Agree. I'm over Elliot. He's a fine goalie and a good guy, but I don't trust him to be healthy.

Talbot, or someone else, for me. But TBH, there's not a real good crop of goalies in UFA, so probably Talbot for me.

Varlomov?

2019-20 Quest for the cup(The Carter Hart era begins)

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