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I wonder if there is anyone left

GhostOfPoverty

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Depends on how you look at it. There are a ton of variables to consider with both of them. I won't bother delving too deep into that. But I will make a brief argument for both guys.

Brady - 6 titles under his belt, accomplished a tremendous amount often with more average players than elite surrounding talents. On the other hand, he has played his entire career under Belichick, so that has to be taken into consideration if you also believe Belichick is one of the absolute GOAT coaches. Peyton did not have that for most of his career.

Peyton - 2 titles with different teams, granted he was carried by that Broncos defense on his way out in his final year. Succeeded at a top-end level with both teams, including an outdoor team, which helped disprove the notion that he wouldn't have been able to succeed in a situation like Brady did with the Patriots. Didn't have a top-tier coach for most of his career aside from the 6 Dungy years, and hardly anyone would say Dungy is on Belichick's level.

To me, if you were to start a franchise with either guy, it's almost a coin toss. They're both elite all-time great legends. There's no reason to get hung up on that debate at this point.
 

Brees#1

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Was that when Archie was playing for NO?

No it was the 2006 playoffs when the Colts went on the road against that top notch Ravens defense. Also Manning winning in Baltimore in the prime Harbaugh/Flacco/Lewis years. He's never actually lost to Baltimore but one time and that was in the 2012 playoffs. Had Denver though not went into Baltimore and shut down the Ravens like they did, they would have been in the SB in 2012. Baltimore had game film.
 

Brees#1

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So again a QB guides a team all year, in Brady's case a lot more and all those games mean nothing? LMAO and that makes no sense to you?

We all know Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton etc are better than Eli or Dilfer. But you can't negate the fact they failed in big games, or their D failed. The Ring itself is an indicator of what they did the whole year. I can't make that any clearer, of you choose to remain obtuse that is on you.

Manning started standing up to Brady and then the injury happened. Denver with a prime Manning was better than NE without 16-0/Moss and Revis. The ONLY times NE had actual better seasons than Manning after the 2005
turning point was 2007(16-0), 2010 (but only record-wise I don't think they were better they won a close home game), and 2014 (Revis).

If we look at Manning's playoff losses, two of the teams that beat him went on to stomp Brady the next round.

2005-Steelers, Steelers won SB and routed the team that beat NE.
2007-Chargers, they just have had his number then. And Brady has had theirs.
2008-Chargers again, Brady was hurt.
2010-Jets and on a fg. They stomp NE.
2012-Ravens in a comeback and OT win. They stomp NE
2013-Indy, a team who is actually elite when healthy and they already were written off against NE because of 0-3 record with Luck. Manning was also hurt and Denver's defense had not gelled yet. Also, Indy had that film.

Only the Chargers and Colts lost to NE and there are reasons there.

Brady owned Manning early on but ultimately Brady's imaturity played into the more mature and naturally commanding Manning's hands. Brady actually started growing up after the 2012 playoffs and held his own at home, but he never beat Manning on the road the rest of the way.
 

Hang_On_Sloopy08

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Payton is a way better actor. That’s about the only thing he’s better at than Brady.
 

NWPATSFAN

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No it was the 2006 playoffs when the Colts went on the road against that top notch Ravens defense. Also Manning winning in Baltimore in the prime Harbaugh/Flacco/Lewis years. He's never actually lost to Baltimore but one time and that was in the 2012 playoffs. Had Denver though not went into Baltimore and shut down the Ravens like they did, they would have been in the SB in 2012. Baltimore had game film.
OK now I'm following.
I thought maybe you were joking about Manning playing for the Baltimore Colts:doh:
 

NWPATSFAN

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Manning started standing up to Brady and then the injury happened. Denver with a prime Manning was better than NE without 16-0/Moss and Revis. The ONLY times NE had actual better seasons than Manning after the 2005
turning point was 2007(16-0), 2010 (but only record-wise I don't think they were better they won a close home game), and 2014 (Revis).

If we look at Manning's playoff losses, two of the teams that beat him went on to stomp Brady the next round.

2005-Steelers, Steelers won SB and routed the team that beat NE.
2007-Chargers, they just have had his number then. And Brady has had theirs.
2008-Chargers again, Brady was hurt.
2010-Jets and on a fg. They stomp NE.
2012-Ravens in a comeback and OT win. They stomp NE
2013-Indy, a team who is actually elite when healthy and they already were written off against NE because of 0-3 record with Luck. Manning was also hurt and Denver's defense had not gelled yet. Also, Indy had that film.

Only the Chargers and Colts lost to NE and there are reasons there.

Brady owned Manning early on but ultimately Brady's imaturity played into the more mature and naturally commanding Manning's hands. Brady actually started growing up after the 2012 playoffs and held his own at home, but he never beat Manning on the road the rest of the way.

Wow a lot to digest in this one.

You kind of jumped all over the place focusing on just certain areas:scratch:

I don't know where to begin?

All that should really matter is H2H.

Playoffs Brady was 2-1 against PM during his Indy stint.

TB was 0-2 when PM was in Denver. Credit the D not PM.
Regular season TB was 8-4 against PM and the Colts and 3-2 against PM and Denver.

As far as curb stomping an opponent that is of no relevance. Teams match up and game plan totally differently against other teams.

:2cents:
 

Rex Racer

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Fuck it. I'll go ahead and die on this hill.

Not only is Peyton better, BOTH Manning brothers were better! LET'S DO THIS!!

:slaphappy:
 

Brees#1

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Wow a lot to digest in this one.

You kind of jumped all over the place focusing on just certain areas:scratch:

I don't know where to begin?

All that should really matter is H2H.

Playoffs Brady was 2-1 against PM during his Indy stint.

TB was 0-2 when PM was in Denver. Credit the D not PM.
Regular season TB was 8-4 against PM and the Colts and 3-2 against PM and Denver.

As far as curb stomping an opponent that is of no relevance. Teams match up and game plan totally differently against other teams.

:2cents:

Is it even worth arguing with a Brady fan? Brady's 8-4 Colts record includes games before 2005. Indy turned the corner in 2005 and PM and the Colts were 4-2. Where is Brady's other 6 wins? Oh that's right, four of them were 2003 and 2004. The other two were in Brady's first season when he and Manning were division rivals. Again, six of Brady's eight wins against the Colts came before Indianapolis started to become a more formidable opponent to NE in terms of seeding. When Indy caught up, Manning was mostly winning. That is a nondisputable fact.

It doesn't matter after that. Brady was 3-2 against Denver Manning, but all three of Brady's wins were at home. You want to talk about Denver defense? NE's defense was pretty good too early on. Also, since 2004 playoffs Manning's two Denver wins give him a 6-5 record against Brady overall. That's not cherry picking. That is simply how it was. 2005 was a transition year. Manning had six higher seeds to Brady's three from that point forward.


Now I believe Manning was a better individual QB. As I said earlier, Brady has the rings, overall head to head record, and the AFC titles.
 

Nosferatu

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Bob Avellini > Tom Brady
 

NWPATSFAN

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Is it even worth arguing with a Brady fan? Brady's 8-4 Colts record includes games before 2005. Indy turned the corner in 2005 and PM and the Colts were 4-2. Where is Brady's other 6 wins? Oh that's right, four of them were 2003 and 2004. The other two were in Brady's first season when he and Manning were division rivals. Again, six of Brady's eight wins against the Colts came before Indianapolis started to become a more formidable opponent to NE in terms of seeding. When Indy caught up, Manning was mostly winning. That is a nondisputable fact.

It doesn't matter after that. Brady was 3-2 against Denver Manning, but all three of Brady's wins were at home. You want to talk about Denver defense? NE's defense was pretty good too early on. Also, since 2004 playoffs Manning's two Denver wins give him a 6-5 record against Brady overall. That's not cherry picking. That is simply how it was. 2005 was a transition year. Manning had six higher seeds to Brady's three from that point forward.


Now I believe Manning was a better individual QB. As I said earlier, Brady has the rings, overall head to head record, and the AFC titles.

No that's not cherry picking:doh:It's classic cherry picking.

Let's see I'll just use stats that support my arguement. Forget any that don't support old one and done.


Should we get into the # of all pros/HOF/pro bowlers that Manning had year after year on his teams?
 

Southieinnc

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Is it even worth arguing with a Brady fan?
As I said earlier, Brady has the rings, overall head to head record, and the AFC titles.

Wait! There's more!

These are just a few Superbowl records. Regular season too many to list.....

Most wins (6)

Most games played (9)

Most passing touchdowns, career (18)

Most passing yards, career (2,838)

Most passing yards, game (505)

Oldest quarterback (41)

Most 300-yard passing games (4)

Most passes without an interception, game (48)

Most pass completions, career (256)

Most passes competed, game (43)
 

NWPATSFAN

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Wait! There's more!

These are just a few Superbowl records. Regular season too many to list.....

Most wins (6)

Most games played (9)

Most passing touchdowns, career (18)

Most passing yards, career (2,838)

Most passing yards, game (505)

Oldest quarterback (41)

Most 300-yard passing games (4)

Most passes without an interception, game (48)

Most pass completions, career (256)

Most passes competed, game (43)

You need to subtract any that were accumulated when Manning and his teams didn't play well. It's only fair.
 

wazzu31

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Tom Brady and John Elway >>>>Peyton Manning.

In all of Brady’s Super Bowl losses doesn’t add up to Manning,in his records setting season, the curb stomping that the Broncos took. That game alone nullifies him from any talk of the GOAT.
 

GhostOfPoverty

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Is it even worth arguing with a Brady fan? Brady's 8-4 Colts record includes games before 2005. Indy turned the corner in 2005 and PM and the Colts were 4-2. Where is Brady's other 6 wins? Oh that's right, four of them were 2003 and 2004. The other two were in Brady's first season when he and Manning were division rivals. Again, six of Brady's eight wins against the Colts came before Indianapolis started to become a more formidable opponent to NE in terms of seeding. When Indy caught up, Manning was mostly winning. That is a nondisputable fact.

It doesn't matter after that. Brady was 3-2 against Denver Manning, but all three of Brady's wins were at home. You want to talk about Denver defense? NE's defense was pretty good too early on. Also, since 2004 playoffs Manning's two Denver wins give him a 6-5 record against Brady overall. That's not cherry picking. That is simply how it was. 2005 was a transition year. Manning had six higher seeds to Brady's three from that point forward.


Now I believe Manning was a better individual QB. As I said earlier, Brady has the rings, overall head to head record, and the AFC titles.


Like I was getting at already ITT, you're right, they're not worth arguing with. They're so dense that they can't consider the fact that both guys played in drastically different situations. How likely would it be that 7th round Brady would have been as successful being drafted by that Colts team in the late 90's, and what would Peyton have looked liked being drafted by Belichick and playing under him his entire career? How we figure that is a better means of determining which one was the better pure QB talent than just going off of the rings argument.
 

NWPATSFAN

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Like I was getting at already ITT, you're right, they're not worth arguing with. They're so dense that they can't consider the fact that both guys played in drastically different situations. How likely would it be that 7th round Brady would have been as successful being drafted by that Colts team in the late 90's, and what would Peyton have looked liked being drafted by Belichick and playing under him his entire career? How we figure that is a better means of determining which one was the better pure QB talent than just going off of the rings argument.

We'd have to make the assumption Peyton wouldn't pull an Archie/Eli draft day trade demand. :bawling:
 

GhostOfPoverty

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We'd have to make the assumption Peyton wouldn't pull an Archie/Eli draft day trade demand. :bawling:


You think Peyton would have whined his way out of being drafted by New England as they were in 2000, as the heir apparent to Drew Bledsoe? I mean, if he didn't whine his way out of going to that awful Indianapolis team that had next to nothing going for them when they drafted him in 1998, then I doubt he'd have thrown a fit about being picked up by that 2000 New England team either.

Like I said, this debate is stupid, and has been for a long time. If you're going to keep harping on about a subject that was worn out on internet message boards a decade ago in 2009, then at least formulate plausible arguments and gripes. Lastly, I'm clearly not favoring Peyton in your little debate, yet you throw out troll comments as if I'm some hardcore Colts and Peyton fan or something. Get a grip, kid.
 

NWPATSFAN

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You think Peyton would have whined his way out of being drafted by New England as they were in 2000, as the heir apparent to Drew Bledsoe? I mean, if he didn't whine his way out of going to that awful Indianapolis team that had next to nothing going for them when they drafted him in 1998, then I doubt he'd have thrown a fit about being picked up by that 2000 New England team either.

Like I said, this debate is stupid, and has been for a long time. If you're going to keep harping on about a subject that was worn out on internet message boards a decade ago in 2009, then at least formulate plausible arguments and gripes. Lastly, I'm clearly not favoring Peyton in your little debate, yet you throw out troll comments as if I'm some hardcore Colts and Peyton fan or something. Get a grip, kid.

Take your Midol Nancy your emotions are all over the place.
I made a statement if that offended you, you need to buy a kevlar skirt.

Not sure why you're asking about 2000. PM was drafted in 98. Yes I think he may have whined about being selected by NE. One NE had little to no history unlike the Colts. Two he would've had to compete with Bledsoe.

I can admit I can't stand that family. The biggest reason was the Eli/SD bs. Fucking bush league bitches.

OBTW your comments have been favoring Peyton which I'm ok with. Just be prepared to back them up.
 
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