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2016 re-draft

Southieinnc

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I bet half of them would, because he's better than probably half of the starting QBs in the NFL. You can say whatever you want, I'm simply pointing out that he hasn't had a year that's anywhere close to the MVP-level seasons you see nowadays. Until he starts approaching that sort of production as a passer, what's to say he's actually capable of it? What's to say what you see is what you get - a pretty good QB who is undoubtedly outplaying his draft position, but isn't in the group of elite QBs and hasn't shown that he's going to get there?


Say what you wnt = and you will. Patriots could win SB 54 with Dak. What do you want? A guy like Rodgers who has a world of talent and doesn't do shit?
 

Across The Field

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Say what you wnt = and you will. Patriots could win SB 54 with Dak. What do you want? A guy like Rodgers who has a world of talent and doesn't do shit?
This post has nothing to do with our conversation. There have been multiple QBs who have won a SB and not been MVP-caliber, so what's your point exactly?
 

jarntt

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My narrative? I think what you need to understand my man is I was talking about how loaded is Dallas on both sides of the ball. I said Dak is good with special qualities and that’s all they need from him to go far in the playoffs but I said he’s not an MVP type... and I get all this bullshit. Sorry, Dak has a great arm and he totally can win a MVP Happy?
How soon we forget half the Dallas fan base asking him to be benched last year
Again, you seem to struggle to follow along or remember which argument you are arguing. I'm not referring to any of that at all. I'm strictly talking about how 100 times on here you have said Dak doesn't have a good arm. Nothing else. That's a factual topic and it's wrong. As far as your opinion on his talent or his MVP capability or the talent of other Dallas players, I don't care. It's an opinion and it's not from a Dallas fan. You can think what you want.
 

Manster7588

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Now my friend with the microscopic brain. All Pro is an elite award that goes to the best players at each position. One voter gave a very average Safety two all pro awards. One voter gave Dak an MVP vote. It shows you that one person doesn’t really mean much. If you can’t understand that I don’t know what to tell you. Cracks me up how difficult you are on every word that I say. This average player is a multi All Pro winner. Dak got one vote on one MVP. Yes, MVP is much more difficult but that doesn’t take away from the point genius boy.

I have a microscopic brain, yet it's you who can't understand 3rd grade math. There were 1,298 votes cast for the 2008 All Pro team and a 50 votes cast for the 2016 MVP.

Sorry your comparison of the All Pro to an MVP is simply as moronic as it gets.
 

jarntt

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Well in 2018 passes over 20 yds

Rating to the left
League avg 76.6
Wentz 145.8
Dak 90.8

To the middle
League avg. 89.6
Wentz 20.8 (not a misprint)
Dak 158.8

to the Right
League avg. 78.0
Wentz 26.3 (again not a misprint)
Dak 101.0

So again I am not saying he is great at the long ball. I am saying your way of thinking is flawed. he is above league avg in all three. Wentz is above in one.
I'm not being sarcastic here: That can't possibly be true, can it? I'm not surprised to see good numbers from Dak because I actually watch him and don't go by this crap that's being tossed around that he can't throw the ball downfield just because he and Gallup didn't connect a couple of times and people who don't watch the games don't see the throws he does make. But is Wentz really that horrible throwing downfield? I think that stat is incorrect because that is Tebow shit right there.
 

jarntt

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This is REALLY all about PE1 fear that Dak is better than wentz. All his feigned praise of Dak is really backhanded compliments. He essentially says things like “he’s a nice little player” but he’s not phenomenal like Wentz.

The Eagles have had much better weapons on offense during these Wentz/Dak years but he will never admit that. He will say “Dak can’t win without Elliot” but whenever Wentz loses he will blame it on some injured player not being around.

He fails to see that THIS is the reason he catches shit. This is why he plays the victim card when he catches the shit he deserves.
This is what we have read on the Cowboy board for 10 years from him. It's so obvious but pretend it's compliments. Meh, Eagles fans...
 

Across The Field

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I'm not being sarcastic here: That can't possibly be true, can it? I'm not surprised to see good numbers from Dak because I actually watch him and don't go by this crap that's being tossed around that he can't throw the ball downfield just because he and Gallup didn't connect a couple of times and people who don't watch the games don't see the throws he does make. But is Wentz really that horrible throwing downfield? I think that stat is incorrect because that is Tebow shit right there.
I can't refute the QB rating because I can't find the data, but I do see that Wentz had the 7th highest deep ball accuracy completion percentage last year at 45%, so something doesn't look right.
 

jarntt

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Didn’t I already say they’d be in trouble without Dak just like every other team that loses their starting QB. All I’m trying to say is if there was a big game and you needed to be a pass team to catch-up you’re in trouble cause Dak isn’t that QB. Dak isn’t the type to go out and have a huge game carrying the team on his shoulders and that’s OK cause he’s plenty good at other things.
Well,,,,not every team that lost their QB the last 2 years was in trouble...some actually got better when their starting QB went out for the year.
 

jarntt

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I can't refute the QB rating because I can't find the data, but I do see that Wentz had the 7th highest deep ball accuracy completion percentage last year at 45%, so something doesn't look right.
I tend to agree. It's just too low. It's not like it is bad, it's beyond pathetic. No NFL QB should have those numbers even for half a season.
 

Manster7588

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I can't refute the QB rating because I can't find the data, but I do see that Wentz had the 7th highest deep ball accuracy completion percentage last year at 45%, so something doesn't look right.
I don't know if those numbers are right either but it's quite possible if he throws a great majority of his deep passed down the left side he's nearly perfect on the side at 145.8.

I do question Dak being that high across the field, but then again they don't ask him to throw deep to often.
 

Across The Field

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I tend to agree. It's just too low. It's not like it is bad, it's beyond pathetic. No NFL QB should have those numbers even for half a season.
Actually, I take that back. I think this is right. His numbers changed dramatically throwing to the center or right as opposed to throwing to the left:

screen-shot-2019-02-20-at-3.16.53-pm.png
 
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Across The Field

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I don't know if those numbers are right either but it's quite possible if he throws a great majority of his deep passed down the left side he's nearly perfect on the side at 145.8.

I do question Dak being that high across the field, but then again they don't ask him to throw deep to often.
He actually seems to be right around the league average with 48 deep ball passes, only 12 QBs had more. Found a really cool website with the breakdowns:

The 2018-19 Deep Ball Project (Part 3/3)
 

jarntt

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So if I’m wrong and Dak actually has a good arm (and the team doesn’t let him show it in a passing league) what are his weaknesses.
First off he is a young kid that played 3 seasons and is only 25 so his weaknesses aren't yet set in stone. But so far he has struggled with his footwork at times. This is his biggest weakness and has clearly caused accuracy issues when his footwork is off, which isn't all of the time. He hasn't been as good as most NFL QBs at seeing when a receiver who is covered is about to get open. He finds the open man just fine, but he doesn't seem to anticipate the guy that will soon get open and make the throw as he is coming uncovered.

He doesn't have quiet feet in the pocket. You watch a Brady just step up one step and get himself out of the muck as it passes behind him. Dak tends to notice the traffic around him and leave the pocket. He throws a great ball on the run so it isn't horrible, but it isn't as good as stepping up and continuing to go through your reads and possibly hit a big play with the extra time. You also lose half the field once you move left or right out of the pocket. This seemed to start after the Atlanta debacle. He needs to put it out of his mind and trust his OL. He needs to throw the ball away quicker when there is nothing there or when he is about to get hit. He also needs to find the hot receiver when being blitzed. I suspect a big part of this is that unlike other teams Dallas doesn't seem to have this communication (going back to Romo). Other teams throw that quick slant into the vacated space but Dallas doesn't seem to run that hot pattern or make that throw within one second in the face of an obvious blitz. He needs to run more. He is a strong, good runner and needs to run more than he does because it should be a huge part of the Offense but it really isn't.

Like most young QBs he needs to get a little better at going through his progressions and seeing every option when there is time. The Offensive scheme is a huge problem because everything is ultra conservative and allows the safeties to sit in the box without much fear of any WRs going behind them on most plays. The only time the Offense opens up is when they are behind late and coincidentally this is when Dak has been at his best proving he can do it, if asked. His WRs clearly struggled to get open for most of his tenure until Cooper came along. The last two points are what led most to Dak "checking down" so often. He can't have gaudy QB stats because the Offense doesn't allow it. The stupid 3rd and 9 to 12 yard screens over and over again were just pathetic play calls. They weren't dumpoffs by Dak, they were called plays.

Mostly I think his biggest weakness is being a Cowboy. This is clearly what has drawn the ire of many NFL fans for a yong QB that has won his division 2 out of 3 years and just knows how to win.
 

Across The Field

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Mostly I think his biggest weakness is being a Cowboy. This is clearly what has drawn the ire of many NFL fans for a yong QB that has won his division 2 out of 3 years and just knows how to win.
Maybe I can't speak for everyone else, but I've yet to hear a single person say anything about his criticism that has to do with what team he plays for. The Cowboys aren't in their "America's Team" heyday anymore when they were front and center 24/7. They're not irrelevant by any means, but they're not the Patriots, Steelers, or even the Rams or Eagles for that matter.

I honestly wouldn't say he's even getting heaped with unfair criticism. I haven't heard anyone say he sucks or even that he's not a good QB. I think it's pretty short-sighted to try and just blame him being a Cowboy for anything someone says about him that isn't a glowing endorsement.
 

jarntt

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Maybe I can't speak for everyone else, but I've yet to hear a single person say anything about his criticism that has to do with what team he plays for. The Cowboys aren't in their "America's Team" heyday anymore when they were front and center 24/7. They're not irrelevant by any means, but they're not the Patriots, Steelers, or even the Rams or Eagles for that matter.

I honestly wouldn't say he's even getting heaped with unfair criticism. I haven't heard anyone say he sucks or even that he's not a good QB. I think it's pretty short-sighted to try and just blame him being a Cowboy for anything someone says about him that isn't a glowing endorsement.
You are proven wrong by the fact that you just read a 25 line post about his "weaknesses" and that's what you felt the need to comment on :L
 

Across The Field

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You are proven wrong by the fact that you just read a 25 line post about his "weaknesses" and that's what you felt the need to comment on :L
Not at all. I agreed with your assessment up until that point. It was when you said "his biggest weakness is being a Cowboy", as if he played on another team people would have some dramatically different opinion of him, where we differed entirely. It's a cop out, plain and simple.
 
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