C'mon on Webb...Intent? Really?

ATL96Steeler said:

Players Championship 2019: Webb Simpson hit with flimsy rules violation, makes his displeasure clear - Golf Digest

Webb Simpson thinks the USGA should take into account "intent" on moving your ball (not on the green).

Talk about muddying up the water! IMO No one would ever admit to intentionally moving their ball from a iffy lie. May as well play preferred lies.

Thoughts?

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redseat said:

I get what He's saying but like you said, short of a player coming out and saying Yeah, I moved it.,, There is NO way to judge intent.

Baffles me though that had he done it on the green, no penalty

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ATL96Steeler said:

Players Championship 2019: Webb Simpson hit with flimsy rules violation, makes his displeasure clear - Golf Digest

Webb Simpson thinks the USGA should take into account "intent" on moving your ball (not on the green).

Talk about muddying up the water! IMO No one would ever admit to intentionally moving their ball from a iffy lie. May as well play preferred lies.

Thoughts?

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ATL96Steeler said:

Exactly.

Just last week, hole #5, I'm in the fairway but due some bad contours the ball was sitting down maybe 3-4" below my feet. Like every other round we've played n '19, it was wet and lift, clean and place. So I was entitled to pick the ball up, clean and place it (in a better lie). I chose to play as it was lying. The approach is over a wide gully so ideally you want a level lie.

I play the shot and pulled it pretty far left, but on the green...realizing I could've moved it several inches within the rules. one of the fellas that saw the lie said, you must've liked that lie a lot...I said no just the opposite. It was sitting clean, not muddy or dirty so I knew if I picked the ball up my "intent" would've been solely to improve the lie so I decided not to.

Green...I think enough goofy things have occurred on the green...such as dropping your ball marker it hits the ball and moves it, I've seen a player's glove drop out of his pocket and move a ball, etc. that the USGA decided that on the green, no penalty.

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Montalban said:

My thoughts are these current pros are becoming whiny babies about everything. They are too pampered.

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Hang_On_Sloopy08 said:

With the kind of money at stake and exemptions into future tournaments that come from just a single stroke, I don't think they're in the wrong the least bit to voice their opinions on the matter.

I behind Webb on this, it's really stupid to get penalized for this. It's the same thing as tapping the ball off the tee with your driver, and that's not a penalty. So why is this a penalty? There's no grey area here, there's absolutely no advantage that comes from this. The player can just as easily replace his ball to it's original position.

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Hang_On_Sloopy08 said:

With the kind of money at stake and exemptions into future tournaments that come from just a single stroke, I don't think they're in the wrong the least bit to voice their opinions on the matter.

I behind Webb on this, it's really stupid to get penalized for this. It's the same thing as tapping the ball off the tee with your driver, and that's not a penalty. So why is this a penalty? There's no grey area here, there's absolutely no advantage that comes from this. The player can just as easily replace his ball to it's original position.

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Montalban said:

I can see your side of it as well. I just hate to see multi-millionaires crying about everything. Heck, they play golf for a living. Does it get any better than that?

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ATL96Steeler said:

He was right off the green in the fringe so I understand why he was frustrated, but I think we can make many of the golf rules sound stupid. This one basically gives the player free rein to touch the ball...when he brings "intent" into it you just open a can of worms...they may as well be playing ball in hand.

FWIW..it was brought up to the GC panel which included two former touring pros and they thought it had no basis.

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Hang_On_Sloopy08 said:

Yeah it’s hard to have sympathy given how blessed they are. But there’s an ugly side to all this, I’ve got a different perspective after watching my best friend last year in his rookie year on the PGA. He literally lost getting his card back by a single shot. It was the difference between making a $1,000,000+ this year and making maybe $150,000+ back on Web. So little penalties like this can look so insignificant in the grand scheme, but they’re ultra important at the core of it. For guys like Webb Simpson, boo hoo. For the guy looking to get his tour card or keep it, it means everything. The tour life looks great, but unless you’re top 100 in the world it’s a fucking grind and a job end of the day. I don’t feel sorry for any of them, but they don’t have much of a life outside golf. I’d still take their problems though lol.

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Hang_On_Sloopy08 said:

It’s kind of like targeting in football. They don’t call it on intent anymore, it’s black and white. If you hit somebody helmet to helmet you’re ejected. It’s frustrating as hell but I get it, it can’t be subjective. But I feel like that’s always been apart of sport and officiating, the subjectivity of it all. I don’t like how literal some rules are taken because I think it’s easier to judge intent than we make it out to be, that’s why we have officials. But it does create controversy.

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gohusk said:

I don't have sympathy for Simpson on this one. Don't be a klutz around your ball and you won't have any problems. There are lame rules like the stroke penalty that Fowler got after the ball he dropped rolled into the hazard after he had just put one in the hazard but I don't see what Webb got tagged for as one of them.

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ATL96Steeler said:

Fowler dropped a ball from knee height and it went in the water?

Wow...didn't see that....that is a stupid penalty still.

I get what Simpson is saying, but intent was just a bad choice of words...he was a bit too careless near the ball and he moved it...was it intentional? probably not, but whose to say the next guy wasn't intentionally moving it...an inch or two can make a big difference in a lie..especially with players of this caliber.

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gohusk said:

It was this one. So he took a stroke because he didn't do a good enough job on his drop? For me, let him place the ball. I don't want to see tournaments decided based on who's better at dropping the ball, because it seems like who's able to avoid the hazards should suffice.

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ATL96Steeler said:

Wow...looking at the vid...it seems like he more or less did place it because it rolled twice on the drop apparently...just a freaky situation the ball sat at rest for a good 30-35 seconds (in play) then mysteriously took off into the water....I know I would've probably replayed from the original position with that bank being so steep.

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gohusk said:

It was dumping rain pretty hard when this happened. Must have been rain pelting the ball that got it to start rolling. For me, let him replace it. He already took a penalty for actually hitting it in the hazard.

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ATL96Steeler said:

Yeah...but after the ball was placed and the tees removed, it's a live ball.

I know part of your angle is he was already in the water once, but if we use this as an analogy...approach shot on a par 4 and the ball on ends up on the fringe sloping towards the green and the pin is tight to the ball position. It's a live ball and a gust of wind picks up and blows the ball onto the green and into the cup.

That's a 2.

Totally different situations, but live ball is the common thread.

Fowler's situation was really unfortunate, but imo not unfair.

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gohusk said:

For me the key difference is that in once case the ball is where it is from actually hitting it while the other it's from a drop. He took it like a champ and didn't let it affect his focus.

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