Help me square this circle

tducey · Feb 10, 2019

There needs to be increased interest in the game. I enjoy a ball game more than any sport but not if it's slow as cold molasses. Also they should call it a strikeout if a batter hits a foul ball more than twice after strike 2.

calsnowskier · Feb 10, 2019

tducey said:
There needs to be increased interest in the game. I enjoy a ball game more than any sport but not if it's slow as cold molasses. Also they should call it a strikeout if a batter hits a foul ball more than twice after strike 2.

You like 0-0 games? Cause that is what every game will become if that rule is implemented.

Besides, the most exciting ABs are the ones that go 10+ pitches.

DragonfromTO · Feb 10, 2019

Chewbaccer said:
MLB made commercials and used Nomar's delay tactics as a marketing tool. They embraced it, and that lead to others doing the same thing.

It's not just the batters though. I remember taking my father-in-law to a Mets game at old Shea that Steve Trachsel was starting and it took so damned long we both were on the verge of heatstroke by the 3rd inning.

travis2x · Feb 10, 2019

As an NL fan (Braves), I fully support adding the DH to the NL. For me, not having a DH is putting the NL at a disadvantage. Mainly when it comes to free agency. Think about it. You are a regular position player and could sign somewhere where you could DH once in a while to get a few days of rest or even heal up from an injury, or sign somewhere where you would not get that option at all? Especially for older players where their bodies aren't what they used to be. The DH spot isn't just used for older players though, it creates flexibility for your position players and especially when you might have a logjam at one position. I know this doesn't always matter to some free agents but I know it can be a factor at times.

I have never minded the NL style of play but I wish people would stop being so damn stubborn about it. The pros of having a DH outweigh the cons. Plus, is it really exciting to be a no. 8 hitter in the NL? You are constantly pitched around. You see less good pitches than anybody because it's obviously smart to do so with the pitcher on deck. Sure, watching the pitcher get a big hit once in a while is cool, but it rarely happens. Plus, if you want the pitcher to continue hitting so damn bad, you still have the option to use him as your DH!!!

Chewbaccer · Feb 10, 2019

DragonfromTO said:
It's not just the batters though. I remember taking my father-in-law to a Mets game at old Shea that Steve Trachsel was starting and it took so damned long we both were on the verge of heatstroke by the 3rd inning.

Trachsel was the absolute worst. I remember when he was a Met.

tomcat1 · Feb 10, 2019

travis2x said:
As an NL fan (Braves), I fully support adding the DH to the NL. For me, not having a DH is putting the NL at a disadvantage. Mainly when it comes to free agency. Think about it. You are a regular position player and could sign somewhere where you could DH once in a while to get a few days of rest or even heal up from an injury, or sign somewhere where you would not get that option at all? Especially for older players where their bodies aren't what they used to be. The DH spot isn't just used for older players though, it creates flexibility for your position players and especially when you might have a logjam at one position. I know this doesn't always matter to some free agents but I know it can be a factor at times.

I have never minded the NL style of play but I wish people would stop being so damn stubborn about it. The pros of having a DH outweigh the cons. Plus, is it really exciting to be a no. 8 hitter in the NL? You are constantly pitched around. You see less good pitches than anybody because it's obviously smart to do so with the pitcher on deck. Sure, watching the pitcher get a big hit once in a while is cool, but it rarely happens. Plus, if you want the pitcher to continue hitting so damn bad, you still have the option to use him as your DH!!!

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you. As an NL fan the one thing we have kept sacred is playing the game the way it was invented to be played by keeping this ridiculous DH rule away from our league. I could give you many reasons why I feel this way but that would take an entire page. I'll just give you the main reason which is NL managers have to earn their keep with the way the game was meant to be played by making a decision on whether to let his pitcher hit or putting a pinch hitter into his lineup when the game is on the line.

calsnowskier · Feb 10, 2019

tomcat1 said:
Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you. As an NL fan the one thing we have kept sacred is playing the game the way it was invented to be played by keeping this ridiculous DH rule away from our league. I could give you many reasons why I feel this way but that would take an entire page. I'll just give you the main reason which is NL managers have to earn their keep with the way the game was meant to be played by making a decision on whether to let his pitcher hit or putting a pinch hitter into his lineup when the game is on the line.

The concept of cost/benefit when it comes to pinch hitting for your pitcher is the essence of the game. If I just wanted to see the best possible hitter, I would just watch the HR Derby. I want to see strategy. Thus NL ball is pure perfection.

WindyCityCoug · Feb 11, 2019

msgkings322 said:
MLB is totally pushing for more offense: almost added a DH to the NL, juiced the ball, considering banning the shift). This is not really in question.

But what's the other thing MLB is obsessed with...oh right, making the games shorter

Um, Rob buddy? More runs makes games longer. Want a quick 2 hour game? How about a 2-0 Mark Buehrle shutout?

More scoring, shorter games. Pick ONE.

Rob Mann. is a total idiot.

You hit the nail on the head. We cannot have a bunch of 2 hr 10 min quick games, without good pitching and low scoring. If they want more runs and lots of scoring, for all the douchebag ADD Millenial fucks, then we will have many more of the 3+ hour games.

Pick a lane Rob, you fucking moron.

travis2x · Feb 11, 2019

tomcat1 said:
Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you. As an NL fan the one thing we have kept sacred is playing the game the way it was invented to be played by keeping this ridiculous DH rule away from our league. I could give you many reasons why I feel this way but that would take an entire page. I'll just give you the main reason which is NL managers have to earn their keep with the way the game was meant to be played by making a decision on whether to let his pitcher hit or putting a pinch hitter into his lineup when the game is on the line.

And I respect your opinion as well. I used to feel the same way as you myself up until about 5 or so years ago when I changed my opinion. For most ideas, I am all about tradition. However, I just don't find the whole pinch hitting, double switch, do I keep the pitcher in or pull him stuff really that appealing! I mean it's just okay to me. However, that is not my main reason for wanting the change. For me it's mainly about free agency and losing out on good opportunities. NL teams are at a disadvantage. Plus I think it's going to come eventually, might as well pull the band-aid off now and get it over with.

calsnowskier · Feb 11, 2019

travis2x said:
And I respect your opinion as well. I used to feel the same way as you myself up until about 5 or so years ago when I changed my opinion. For most ideas, I am all about tradition. However, I just don't find the whole pinch hitting, double switch, do I keep the pitcher in or pull him stuff really that appealing! I mean it's just okay to me. However, that is not my main reason for wanting the change. For me it's mainly about free agency and losing out on good opportunities. NL teams are at a disadvantage. Plus I think it's going to come eventually, might as well pull the band-aid off now and get it over with.

I agree that it is coming. No stopping that train. Doesn’t mean I gotta like it.

I just wish I heard SOMEWHERE people talking about my compromise. While I don’t love it, it kinda keeps some strategy in the game while using the DH. Just link the DH to the pitcher. If you pinch hit for the DH, you gotta change your pitcher. If your pitcher comes out, your DH is out as well (you can name a new one next time he is due up).

travis2x · Feb 11, 2019

calsnowskier said:
I agree that it is coming. No stopping that train. Doesn’t mean I gotta like it.

I just wish I heard SOMEWHERE people talking about my compromise. While I don’t love it, it kinda keeps some strategy in the game while using the DH. Just link the DH to the pitcher. If you pinch hit for the DH, you gotta change your pitcher. If your pitcher comes out, your DH is out as well (you can name a new one next time he is due up).

I don't mind that idea at all. I think there is some rule on switching out the DH and how it impacts your lineup but I can't remember exactly what it is. Like you, I watch mostly NL games being a Braves fan.

calsnowskier · Feb 11, 2019

travis2x said:
I don't mind that idea at all. I think there is some rule on switching out the DH and how it impacts your lineup but I can't remember exactly what it is. Like you, I watch mostly NL games being a Braves fan.

Currently, there are basically 2 rules regarding the DH...

1) The “starting” DH must bat at least once. This prevents a team from naming a resting SP as the DH then PHing for him in his first AB to match the situation.

2) If the DH has to take the field, the team loses the DH and the pitcher spot needs to hit for the remainder of the game.

I know in the early years of the DH, teams could use a single DH for any 1 player in the field (it did not have to be the pitcher). I BELIEVE that rule has been changed and it now only applies to pitchers.

tomcat1 · Feb 11, 2019

travis2x said:
And I respect your opinion as well. I used to feel the same way as you myself up until about 5 or so years ago when I changed my opinion. For most ideas, I am all about tradition. However, I just don't find the whole pinch hitting, double switch, do I keep the pitcher in or pull him stuff really that appealing! I mean it's just okay to me. However, that is not my main reason for wanting the change. For me it's mainly about free agency and losing out on good opportunities. NL teams are at a disadvantage. Plus I think it's going to come eventually, might as well pull the band-aid off now and get it over with.

Isn't it great that we can agree to disagree when there are so many people on this site who haven't learned how to do that yet? Maybe some politicians are even paying attention to us too!

travis2x · Feb 11, 2019

tomcat1 said:
Isn't it great that we can agree to disagree when there are so many people on this site who haven't learned how to do that yet? Maybe some politicians are even paying attention to us too!

Indeed!!!

People nowadays just can't comprehend somebody having a different opinion than theirs. The internet is a great tool for them to hide behind and share their thoughts (whether they are knowledgeable or ignorant on the topic, it doesn't matter, the world must hear lol) and then blast the other person for feeling differently.

I appreciate people having a different opinion than my own. I'm not here to tell people what's right or to agree with me. It's the mix of different opinions that can ultimately come up with one good idea. Appreciate the discussion bud. And if the DH comes to the NL, I would say it shouldn't be until 2020-2021 at the earliest just so teams have time to adjust.

I also like the idea of the 26 man roster with 28 max in September.

The Q · Feb 11, 2019

I’d prefer 28 man all year with a 25 man active roster.

Make it 30 during sept.

Similar concrept though

tomcat1 · Feb 11, 2019

travis2x said:
Indeed!!!

People nowadays just can't comprehend somebody having a different opinion than theirs. The internet is a great tool for them to hide behind and share their thoughts (whether they are knowledgeable or ignorant on the topic, it doesn't matter, the world must hear lol) and then blast the other person for feeling differently.

I appreciate people having a different opinion than my own. I'm not here to tell people what's right or to agree with me. It's the mix of different opinions that can ultimately come up with one good idea. Appreciate the discussion bud. And if the DH comes to the NL, I would say it shouldn't be until 2020-2021 at the earliest just so teams have time to adjust.

I also like the idea of the 26 man roster with 28 max in September.

Well said and thank you for giving me another year or two to enjoy NL baseball without the DH.

VikingFan2k2 · Feb 12, 2019

Don't murder the game by cutting out the pitcher hitting entirely.

At the very least say when you change pitchers, the DH is removed and he either goes into the field or out of the game.

VikingFan2k2 · Feb 12, 2019

tomcat1 said:
Well said and thank you for giving me another year or two to enjoy NL baseball without the DH.

If it were up to me, the DH never would have existed. I say that as a 35 year long fan of an AL team. The DH came out as an experiment that should have just gone away and that the AL has used to it's advantage overall.

The Q · Feb 12, 2019

VikingFan2k2 said:
Don't murder the game by cutting out the pitcher hitting entirely.

At the very least say when you change pitchers, the DH is removed and he either goes into the field or out of the game.

4500 abs with a sub 300 ops

Them hitting is murdering the game

JohnU · Feb 12, 2019

calsnowskier said:
That is one of the proposed changes I really like. I believe the proposed change is to go to a 28 man active roster for games in Sept and Oct. You can still have the “taxi squad” to have the 40 players with the team, but only 28 would be eligible per game. The PA should be fine with it, as long as anyone on the taxi squad still gets paid.

I finally hear a lot more people complaining about the busload of players who comes up on Sept. 1, so I think this roster limitation has some merit. It's not like these guys are getting any real audition time anyhow.

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