Im sorry Mussina isnt deserving of HOF.

Mistaken4193 · Jan 22, 2019

I think of him as an Oriole but the ONLY reason he is going in is because he wore PinStripes. Average at best IMO.

StanMarsh51 · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 · Jan 22, 2019

Mistaken4193 said:
I think of him as an Oriole but the ONLY reason he is going in is because he wore PinStripes. Average at best IMO.

Pitcher A - .638 win %, 123 ERA+, 1.19 WHIP, 57 CG, 23 shutouts, 2.0 BB/9, 7.1 K/9
Pitcher B - .615 win %, 121 ERA+, 1.30 WHIP, 52 CG, 22 shutouts, 3.1 BB/9, 5.4 K/9
Pitcher C - .579 win %, 125 ERA+, 1.18 WHIP, 53 CG, 16 shutouts, 2.6 BB/9, 8.0 K/9

Pitcher A is Mussina
Pitcher B is Glavine through the same # of innings (if we added his last few seasons those numbers get worse)
Pitcher C is Smoltz

So if Mussina is not HOF worthy and just average, what are Glavine and Smoltz?

gohusk · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Pitcher A - .638 win %, 123 ERA+, 1.19 WHIP, 57 CG, 23 shutouts, 2.0 BB/9, 7.1 K/9
Pitcher B - .615 win %, 121 ERA+, 1.30 WHIP, 52 CG, 22 shutouts, 3.1 BB/9, 5.4 K/9
Pitcher C - .579 win %, 125 ERA+, 1.18 WHIP, 53 CG, 16 shutouts, 2.6 BB/9, 8.0 K/9

Pitcher A is Mussina
Pitcher B is Glavine through the same # of innings
Pitcher C is Smoltz

So if Mussina is not HOF worthy and just average, what are Glavine and Smoltz?

My issue with Mussina is that he was so flippin average in the postseason. Smoltz had ice water running through his veins in big moments.

DJ · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Pitcher A - .638 win %, 123 ERA+, 1.19 WHIP, 57 CG, 23 shutouts, 2.0 BB/9, 7.1 K/9
Pitcher B - .615 win %, 121 ERA+, 1.30 WHIP, 52 CG, 22 shutouts, 3.1 BB/9, 5.4 K/9
Pitcher C - .579 win %, 125 ERA+, 1.18 WHIP, 53 CG, 16 shutouts, 2.6 BB/9, 8.0 K/9

Pitcher A is Mussina
Pitcher B is Glavine through the same # of innings (if we added his last few seasons those numbers get worse)
Pitcher C is Smoltz

So if Mussina is not HOF worthy and just average, what are Glavine and Smoltz?

That's great.

He deserves to get in IMO.

StanMarsh51 · Jan 22, 2019

gohusk said:
My issue with Mussina is that he was so flippin average in the postseason. Smoltz had ice water running through his veins in big moments.

Mussina had a 3.42 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 9.3 K/9 in the playoffs...and more than half of his playoff innings came against the mid/late '90s Yankees, Mariners, Indians and the mid 2000s Red Sox (big time lineups).

And his playoff ERA was hurt by his last 3 playoff games in his late 30s...before those last 3 games, his playoff ERA was 3.02 in 125 innings.

I'd call that quality...

Montalban · Jan 22, 2019

Mistaken4193 said:
I think of him as an Oriole but the ONLY reason he is going in is because he wore PinStripes. Average at best IMO.

A solid starter whose numbers come from longevity not dominance. I agree he should not have been voted to the HoF.

gohusk · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Mussina had a 3.42 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 9.3 K/9 in the playoffs...and more than half of his playoff innings came against the mid/late '90s Yankees, Mariners, Indians and the mid 2000s Red Sox (big time lineups).

And his playoff ERA was hurt by his last 3 playoff games in his late 30s...before those last 3 games, his playoff ERA was 3.02 in 125 innings.

I'd call that quality...

He was the same old same old. Gave what he was paid to give. Not bagging on him, but no elevation of play. Smoltz was money in the post season. Glavine I'll buy, but Smoltz was the better pitcher.

StanMarsh51 · Jan 22, 2019

gohusk said:
He was the same old same old. Gave what he was paid to give. Not bagging on him, but no elevation of play. Smoltz was money in the post season. Glavine I'll buy, but Smoltz was the better pitcher.

No 'elevation of play' doesn't mean he was mediocre/average in the playoffs..and as mentioned, much of his playoff innings came against top offenses.

I'd put Mussina in the same tier/category as Schilling, Glavine, Smoltz. All are HOF worthy imo.

MilkSpiller22 · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Pitcher A - .638 win %, 123 ERA+, 1.19 WHIP, 57 CG, 23 shutouts, 2.0 BB/9, 7.1 K/9
Pitcher B - .615 win %, 121 ERA+, 1.30 WHIP, 52 CG, 22 shutouts, 3.1 BB/9, 5.4 K/9
Pitcher C - .579 win %, 125 ERA+, 1.18 WHIP, 53 CG, 16 shutouts, 2.6 BB/9, 8.0 K/9

Pitcher A is Mussina
Pitcher B is Glavine through the same # of innings (if we added his last few seasons those numbers get worse)
Pitcher C is Smoltz

So if Mussina is not HOF worthy and just average, what are Glavine and Smoltz?

smoltz and Glavine also had much better Best seasons.... Smoltz made it because he was a great reliever too... his Wins/saves stats are best ever...

MilkSpiller22 · Jan 22, 2019

Mussina had only 1 season of having a better ERA than a 3.0, that is NOTHING special... so many AL pitchers who were around same time as Mussina had an ERA better than 3.0 in any given season....

StanMarsh51 · Jan 22, 2019

MilkSpiller22 said:
smoltz and Glavine also had much better Best seasons.... Smoltz made it because he was a great reliever too... his Wins/saves stats are best ever...

Yea, but Smoltz would've been providing more value to his team had he been a starter (I know he was rebounding from surgery, but Smoltz at 200 innings is worth more than him a reliever at 70 innings).

MilkSpiller22 · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Yea, but Smoltz would've been providing more value to his team had he been a starter (I know he was rebounding from surgery, but Smoltz at 200 innings is worth more than him a reliever at 70 innings).

wasnt his choice to go to the bullpen... and he stayed there because the Braves had nobody else to close... So He was actually more valuable to the braves as a closer, since they had nobody else to do it...

StanMarsh51 · Jan 22, 2019

MilkSpiller22 said:
wasnt his choice to go to the bullpen... and he stayed there because the Braves had nobody else to close... So He was actually more valuable to the braves as a closer, since they had nobody else to do it...

Who's to say that they couldn't have gotten a closer or had a closer by committee that sufficed? or another guy stepping up to be effective?

The '03 Braves didn't have a single starter with an ERA under 3.80, and the '04 Braves only had one starter with an ERA under 3.70, so I'd say having a quality starter Smoltz on those teams would've helped considering he could've been the best starter on those teams.

MilkSpiller22 · Jan 22, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Who's to say that they couldn't have gotten a closer or had a closer by committee that sufficed? or another guy stepping up to be effective?

The '03 Braves didn't have a single starter with an ERA under 3.80, and the '04 Braves only had one starter with an ERA under 3.70, so I'd say having a quality starter Smoltz on those teams would've helped considering he could've been the best starter on those teams.

you can ask bobby cox i guess...

navamind · Jan 22, 2019

MilkSpiller22 said:
Mussina had only 1 season of having a better ERA than a 3.0, that is NOTHING special... so many AL pitchers who were around same time as Mussina had an ERA better than 3.0 in any given season....

Good for them. He finished in the top 10 in ERA eleven times and in the top 5 seven times. He also finished in the top 10 in innings pitched eight times, threw 200+ innings eleven times and threw 150+ innings in all but one season (his rookie year). He wasn't historically dominant, but he was among the best pitchers in his league in run prevention and he was a workhorse in his era. He also has a 3.42 ERA in 139.2 postseason innings.

MilkSpiller22 · Jan 22, 2019

navamind said:
Good for them. He finished in the top 10 in ERA eleven times and in the top 5 seven times. He also finished in the top 10 in innings pitched eight times, threw 200+ innings eleven times and threw 150+ innings in all but one season (his rookie year). He wasn't historically dominant, but he was among the best pitchers in his league in run prevention and he was a workhorse in his era. He also has a 3.42 ERA in 139.2 postseason innings.

so being constantly very good, never elite, is enough to be one of the ALL TIME BEST?? I mean, again, if you are going to get in because of longevity, you kind of have to hit a milestone...

He did not reach 300 wins, nor 3000 SOs... so was his longevity really that special??

His ERA, is below average for a HOFer...

the only thing he is above average in compared to the average HOFer is WHIP...

navamind · Jan 22, 2019

MilkSpiller22 said:
so being constantly very good, never elite, is enough to be one of the ALL TIME BEST?? I mean, again, if you are going to get in because of longevity, you kind of have to hit a milestone...

He did not reach 300 wins, nor 3000 SOs... so was his longevity really that special??

Would you have rather him hung around and limped his way to 300 wins ala Tom Glavine?

His ERA, is below average for a HOFer...

he also pitched in one of the most hitter friendly eras in baseball history, but let's conveniently leave that out.

the only thing he is above average in compared to the average HOFer is WHIP...

see above, which makes it even more impressive that he did so.

MilkSpiller22 · Jan 22, 2019

navamind said:
Would you have rather him hung around and limped his way to 300 wins ala Tom Glavine?

he also pitched in the most hitter friendly era in baseball history, but let's conveniently leave that out.

the only thing he is above average in compared to the average HOFer is WHIP...

[/QUOTE]

yes, i would have... you might not be a milestones guy... But you have to admit there is a difference in celebration to your 49th birthday and your 50th birthday... to think milestones are not a game changer is naive...

navamind · Jan 22, 2019

His "mere" 270 wins are tied for 33rd all-time. that's pretty impressive, especially considering he pitched in an era where pitchers were going fewer innings and receiving fewer wins/losses.

Im sorry Mussina isnt deserving of HOF.

REGISTERED GUMP!!!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Generic line for rent here

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Gorilla

Gorilla

Well-Known Member

Gorilla

Well-Known Member

Gorilla

Well-Known Member

Gorilla

Well-Known Member

Gorilla

Well-Known Member

Similar threads