politics thread

ehb5 said:

Granting those 11 million people citizenship would be comically more economically beneficial.

Why not just do that?

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Why not just do that??? Short term gain maybe. But once those 11 million all vote Democrat, and the Dems took over the country and established Socialism, it wouldn't be long before we were a poor and destitute country fighting each other for toilet paper, like in Venezuela.

fredsdeadfriend said:

Well, accumulated knowledge doesn't mean increased mental ability.

The ancients understood MORE, with much less in the way of accumulated knowledge.

We have time in our favor. TONS of experience to learn from. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes, but instead of increasing in our WISDOM and understanding, our generations continue to figure out more and more ways to make the same mistakes over and over again. It's becoming more and more easy to manipulate the masses nowadays.

With all the resources at our fingertips, we should be far more wise then the ancients, but we are not.

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Well I don't know that I buy that but it's an interesting argument at least.

fredsdeadfriend said:

Why not just do that??? Short term gain maybe. But once those 11 million all vote Democrat, and the Dems took over the country and established Socialism, it wouldn't be long before we were a poor and destitute country fighting each other for toilet paper, like in Venezuela.

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Sorry but if that's a serious answer that is one of the worst defenses for a policy that I have ever seen in my life.

Seriously. Deport them because I don't like how theyll vote? Holy shit.

Also...maybe if Republicans weren't constantly disparaging them and realized that immigrants were super important and immigration is something we should encourage and expand, then they would vote republican instead...

fredsdeadfriend said:

Oh, I am not trying to justify the practice of slavery. I'm just tired of certain people trying to make it out as if slavery was a white invention and a white only practice. I wouldn't be surprised if someone showed me evidence that it was basically something EVERY race practiced, some more than others, and I wouldn't be surprised if whites, throughout history, were nowhere near the top of the list of enslavers.

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I have never said it was a white only thing. I do hold to the fact that slavery in America still has vestiges in the form of how Blacks are treated by some people. Many will deny that, but the mentality of blacks as inferior was born of that time period and persists to some degree today.

fredsdeadfriend said:

Have we figured out all of the sh1t the ancients knew yet?

They knew how to build roads that are STILL intact to this day, hundreds, close to thousands of years later. We can't figure out how to make roads that last more than a few years before they need repairs.


And before technology, I think there was a clear decline/devolution. It reached it's low point during the dark ages. And that low point lasted in some corners of the world until recent times. There are still at least one or two tribes out there in the world that still live very primitively. One is mandated by the state to be left alone in their primitive state, another killed the last missionary that tried to reach them with spears. Technology seems to have stemmed or reversed the decline/devolution of man, but that depends only on how you look at things. People seem to some to be getting dumber and dumber as the years go by.

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PArtly I agree. But I also think as our mindset shifted to capitalism, the idea of making things last forever went the way of the doo-doo bird. I mean think about it, we can build a car that will do 150 MPH, but in ten years its worthless. Roads are designed to wear out, because there is more money in repair and replace than there is in lasting forever. Plus have you ever driven in a 500 year old brick paved road?? Humvees suck on asphalt, on those old roads you liable to throw a kidney if you go too fast.

fredsdeadfriend said:

Why not just do that??? Short term gain maybe. But once those 11 million all vote Democrat, and the Dems took over the country and established Socialism, it wouldn't be long before we were a poor and destitute country fighting each other for toilet paper, like in Venezuela.

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If the Republican or Libertarian platform was so just for all, why would you assume they would all vote democrat?? I mean aside from the fact that Republicans have spent the last 30 years trying to deport them, and the last 2-3 years painting them all as some ravaging horde bent on destroying America.

ehb5 said:

So have native born citizens.

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So? That is their RIGHT, as a legal citizen. They have the RIGHT to break the law, and take the chance of getting caught and going to prison.


Analogy. A child spills grape kool aid on the living room carpet.

Will this anger the parents, the owners of the house? Sure. Will the child suffer punishment? Sure. Will the parents eventually forgive the child? Well, usually I am sure. Hopefully always. And the child will be allowed to continue living there and hopefully the child will show more respect for their parents, for THEIR home, and will try harder in the future to be careful, and maybe avoid drinking Kool-Aid in the living room at all.


Now what if an uninvited neighbor shows up one day when you have friends over. Some of your friends know the person, or find them entertaining, maybe the person is a goofy drunk, and they enjoy them making a fool of themselves. But then the uninvited person(intruder), spills his wine on the living room carpet. The owners of the house, can't punish this person like they did their child. And if they tried to, it wouldn't work the same way, the drunk intruder never respected their home in the first place, so he wouldn't respect any punishment they tried to impose on him. And since their friends were enjoying the person's presence, they might feel it not appropriate to punish the person, and since the person is not a part of the family, same thing, and since the person was not invited, well, if your invited best friend and neighbor spilled wine on their carpet, that person would feel badly and would offer their help in fixing the problem. But this uninvited guest? Well, it would be uncomfortable to punish or scold them, they wouldn't care about harming the owners property, so this uninvited guest basically would just get away with something no one else(family and invited friends) would get away with. Whether it was family rules and punishment, or a neighbor that cares self disciplining themselves giving themselves punishment, via offering to pay to bring in a cleaner, or to come over the next day to scrub the spot themselves, or at the least paying with lots of signs of being sorry. And if this intruder DID care, the chances that they would end up making the effort to make amends is much less than the member of the family or the good friend/neighbor.



That is what many illegal aliens are, UNINVITED guests, many/some who don't/won't appreciate what they get or where they are.



And the other issue people have, is what skin in the game do people wanting them to be let in have in the game?

What harm will come to the Nancy Pelosi's or Chuck Schumer's or the rich and famous actors and actors and musicians and athletes of the world if any illegal aliens end up as murderers or rapists? It won't be them or any of their rich friends or their protected family members that will suffer.

Just like politicians sending young men off to war, it's never THEIR sons, much less themselves. It's always someone else's sons and daughters who will die off in some foreign land.

ehb5 said:

Borders and immigration policy are awesome.

The wall is stupid and expensive.

Our immigration policy should be to increase immigration.

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Are you frigging serious? You must want Civil War? You ready to fight all the nation's rednecks??? The ones I know would enjoy ending your existence.

Me? Well, I'm here trying to talk some sense into you. I am a lover, not a hater.

fredsdeadfriend said:

Are you frigging serious? You must want Civil War? You ready to fight all the nation's rednecks??? The ones I know would enjoy ending your existence.

Me? Well, I'm here trying to talk some sense into you. I am a lover, not a hater.

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At least you are willing to admit one of the main reasons they cling to the 2nd Amendment and get so puckered up any time someone even mentions gun control. In the end, if shit dont go their way, they will ensite a civil war and kill anyone that disagrees. Also the reason they cant quite let go of that rebel flag.

Sharkinva said:

If the Republican or Libertarian platform was so just for all, why would you assume they would all vote democrat?? I mean aside from the fact that Republicans have spent the last 30 years trying to deport them, and the last 2-3 years painting them all as some ravaging horde bent on destroying America.

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I'm not a Republican. And I'm only a Libertarian until I find something better. I'm looking into a new philosophy right now because history and the statistics show that immigrants almost ALL vote Democrat.

Why? Because Dems are experienced in buying votes, in lying to people and promising them Nirvana while giving them hell on earth.

Republicans, in contrast, ask of new citizens that they work hard, and earn their way, and gain experience and wisdom and contribute to their communities.



In summary


Dems offer EASY MONEY

Cons expect people to WORK and to EARN their way.

fredsdeadfriend said:

I'm not a Republican. And I'm only a Libertarian until I find something better. I'm looking into a new philosophy right now because history and the statistics show that immigrants almost ALL vote Democrat.

Why? Because Dems are experienced in buying votes, in lying to people and promising them Nirvana while giving them hell on earth.

Republicans, in contrast, ask of new citizens that they work hard, and earn their way, and gain experience and wisdom and contribute to their communities.



In summary


Dems offer EASY MONEY

Cons expect people to WORK and to EARN their way.

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Odd considering that as i mentioned before, I dont see many Americans willing to work 3 jobs, live 8-10 to a two bedroom apartment, send half their money home and do all this for LESS than minimum wage in some cases.

But if buying votes means, we are not hell bent on deporting you and our leader does not proclaim the majority of you as criminals bent on destroying America... well I guess Democrats pay better.

Sharkinva said:

At least you are willing to admit one of the main reasons they cling to the 2nd Amendment and get so puckered up any time someone even mentions gun control. In the end, if shit dont go their way, they will ensite a civil war and kill anyone that disagrees. Also the reason they cant quite let go of that rebel flag.

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There are A TON of northern Patriots.

A person doesn't have to be a Reb. In fact, the south was mostly DEMOCRATS.


What 2nd Amendment supporters are afraid of, is THE GOVERNMENT!!!

They believe in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and FREEDOM.


What they oppose is frigging Fascists and Socialism and Commies who just want to STEAL from them.


Socialism is theft.


F you if you want to try to come and take what I've worked hard to earn.

Come and try to take our guns. See how that goes for you.



Btw. Most cops and military folk are either white and cons or well, non-white and conservative. Not all, obviously. But far more than not.

Sharkinva said:

Odd considering that as i mentioned before, I dont see many Americans willing to work 3 jobs, live 8-10 to a two bedroom apartment, send half their money home and do all this for LESS than minimum wage in some cases.

But if buying votes means, we are not hell bent on deporting you and our leader does not proclaim the majority of you as criminals bent on destroying America... well I guess Democrats pay better.

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My friend. My sh1t is MINE. I work hard for what I have. Why do you think illegal aliens deserve MY SH1T???

Taxes going to give welfare to illegal aliens is THEFT.

Who the hell are you to use force(the Govt) to TAKE MY SH1T???


Sorry bud, your Socialism will NOT fly here in America, and if you Leftists keep trying to push your Fascist bullsh1t upon the rest of us, Civil War will come upon you. And I seriously doubt you have a clue what that will entail. And I like you man, not sure why, but you seem like a cool dude. So I'd hate for this Civil War to come about.


Saw a meme a couple months ago that said it all.


If the Liberals wanted peace, they would have it.
If the Conservatives wanted war, there would be no liberals.

Something like that?

fredsdeadfriend said:

My friend. My sh1t is MINE. I work hard for what I have. Why do you think illegal aliens deserve MY SH1T???

Taxes going to give welfare to illegal aliens is THEFT.

Who the hell are you to use force(the Govt) to TAKE MY SH1T???


Sorry bud, your Socialism will NOT fly here in America, and if you Leftists keep trying to push your Fascist bullsh1t upon the rest of us, Civil War will come upon you. And I seriously doubt you have a clue what that will entail. And I like you man, not sure why, but you seem like a cool dude. So I'd hate for this Civil War to come about.


Saw a meme a couple months ago that said it all.


If the Liberals wanted peace, they would have it.
If the Conservatives wanted war, there would be no liberals.

Something like that?

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Fact, I dont want jack from you. I dont want to give your stuff to immigrants.

I do want to afford them the same opportunity that your ancestors came here for. A chance to make a better life for themselves. And that chance should not have to go through a billion hoops if you are from Country A, and slide like nothing if you are from country B.

I think you would be shocked how many military and ex military as well as police DONT believe in the current path this President seems headed down. And the truth is, if Trump wanted peace, he would have taken the $25B that included wall funding that was offered last year. He turned it down because it included a path to citizenship for the DACA and TPS folks. SO for a little under 1M (potential) new citizens he would have had his wall.

ehb5 said:

Sorry but if that's a serious answer that is one of the worst defenses for a policy that I have ever seen in my life.

Seriously. Deport them because I don't like how theyll vote? Holy shit.

Also...maybe if Republicans weren't constantly disparaging them and realized that immigrants were super important and immigration is something we should encourage and expand, then they would vote republican instead...

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Wrong, wrong, wrong, and WRONG!!!

No one is saying deport them because of how they will vote. Republicans are saying "deport them because they are here ILLEGALLY!!!". Honor the rule of law. It's Dems who say, "Let them in" so that they can gain their votes.


And let me remind you, I am NOT a Republican. I think the Republicans are almost as bad as the Democrats. I'm against ALL establishment schills. Drain the swamp.


Btw, recent polls say that Hispanics approval of Trump rose 19 percent, from 31 percent to 50 percent just recently.

Hispanic unemployment is at record lows. Many Hispanics who came here LEGALLY, are against illegal immigration.

fredsdeadfriend said:

It's Dems who say, "Let them in" so that they can gain their votes.

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Please show me ONE Democrat that has said or even hinted at this?? Its a Conservative talking point and frankly a fear they have. That these people will automatically vote Democrat.

Sharkinva said:

Fact, I dont want jack from you. I dont want to give your stuff to immigrants.

I do want to afford them the same opportunity that your ancestors came here for. A chance to make a better life for themselves. And that chance should not have to go through a billion hoops if you are from Country A, and slide like nothing if you are from country B.

I think you would be shocked how many military and ex military as well as police DONT believe in the current path this President seems headed down. And the truth is, if Trump wanted peace, he would have taken the $25B that included wall funding that was offered last year. He turned it down because it included a path to citizenship for the DACA and TPS folks. SO for a little under 1M (potential) new citizens he would have had his wall.

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Well good. Because I like you. And I'd hate to have to blow your head off if you came for my sh1t. Btw, I do not own a gun. lol But I might buy 1 or a dozen soon, the way things are going.

As for affording them the same opportunity?? Trump is for that, too. His wife is an immigrant. All 7 of my uncles are immigrants. My father was the only one of his family born here in America. And yes, they came here LEGALLY.

But he and we, simply want that immigration to be controlled and limited and for incoming immigrants to be properly vetted, so as to keep out the criminals and terrorists, and to bring in those who will make our country better than it was before they came in.

fredsdeadfriend said:

Well good. Because I like you. And I'd hate to have to blow your head off if you came for my sh1t. Btw, I do not own a gun. lol But I might buy 1 or a dozen soon, the way things are going.

As for affording them the same opportunity?? Trump is for that, too. His wife is an immigrant. All 7 of my uncles are immigrants. My father was the only one of his family born here in America. And yes, they came here LEGALLY.

But he and we, simply want that immigration to be controlled and limited and for incoming immigrants to be properly vetted, so as to keep out the criminals and terrorists, and to bring in those who will make our country better than it was before they came in.

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1. I do own guns, and I was taught to shoot by some of the best instructors on the planet at the time.

2. IM all for legal immigration, and i think it needs to be expanded.

3. Who is to determine merit. For fuck sake there is a RHODES SCHOLAR among the DACA folks, dude just got a full ride scholarship to OxFord, and he is afraid if he takes it he wont be able to get back into the country. This is just one of many worthwhile people that came here either illegally, or under TPS (which Trump also wants to end) that actually DO make America better.

I would trade 20 Stephen Millers for one Jin Park and get the better end of the deal hands down.

Sharkinva said:

Please show me ONE Democrat that has said or even hinted at this?? Its a Conservative talking point and frankly a fear they have. That these people will automatically vote Democrat.

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Well, of course they don't admit to this publicly, lol.

But the stats and facts are strong evidence proving that is what is their motivation.



And this move towards having open borders is a change that happened suddenly in 2011, when the Dems figured out it would be better to give up on the working class and instead target incoming immigrant classes, and this is when they amped up the PC and identity politics sh1t.


Dems gave up on the working class.


DFL stands for, or USED TO stand for, Democratic Farmer LABOR part.


So now they've turned their backs on the Farmers and on Labor, and instead try to win over the hearts of the Lesbians, Bisexuals, Gays, Transexuals, Queers, Pedophiles, Moslems, Blacks, Hispanics, Atheists, Pagans, and women.


And they have chosen to demonize conservative white males of any religion, Conservative Christians of any color and gender, and anyone who supports Donald Trump. Why? Because he dared to turn over the apple cart, and to go against the establishment Globalists.



Dems don't care about the people. If they did, they wouldn't have CHEATED Bernie Sanders in 2016.


They went with the establishment Wall Street backed, war mongering, corrupt evil witch that was HRC.

Sharkinva said:

1. I do own guns, and I was taught to shoot by some of the best instructors on the planet at the time.

2. IM all for legal immigration, and i think it needs to be expanded.

3. Who is to determine merit. For fuck sake there is a RHODES SCHOLAR among the DACA folks, dude just got a full ride scholarship to OxFord, and he is afraid if he takes it he wont be able to get back into the country. This is just one of many worthwhile people that came here either illegally, or under TPS (which Trump also wants to end) that actually DO make America better.

I would trade 20 Stephen Millers for one Jin Park and get the better end of the deal hands down.

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Well good, you might last longer than the rest of the Leftists and survive long enough to come to realize your side will lose and then give up. I'd hate to see you not survive.


Why do you think it needs to be expanded? Do you realize that AI technology will lead to 40% of the jobs in America disappearing in the next TEN YEARS??? There will soon be a crisis of unemployable people in this country.


And bringing in tons of new immigrants will turn the country Socialist which will be it's end. Do you hate America that much?????