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2019 Offseason

WizardHawk

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And its in his best interest as a journalist to sniff the butts of the team he is covering. Journalism is just a half step above that other millennia old profession.

Heres the pathetic money quote:

Bell clearly lets his emotions cloud his judgment. He spends the rest of the article giving bevell 100% credit for all of wilsons play.

Utter trash article, no one should base their opinions on what a journalist says. He can say what he wants, but the proof is in the pudding.
Right, you and your ilk will post garbage from internet trash as proof of insane views, but an actual journalist that spends crazy amounts of time with the team, coaches, and anyone/everyone related to the organization is biased and wrong.

:burt:

This is how badly the haters logic is. You have to create bullshit to keep your dumb narratives going. He had a positive paragraph about brushing into him so it HAS to be that every other positive thing he said about him is clouded by that one conversation. He couldn't possibly carry on his job effectively after such a display. :L

To you, every bad play was 100% on the call and every single good play was players overcoming bad play calls because they are that good. That's your entire platform and always has been that. It is quite literally the dumbest crap on this site and that's saying a lot.

Get over that fucking play in the SB already. It entirely ruined the lives of so many of you. Carroll called for it and it failed. That day just turned all of you into giant piles of stupid.
 

MrS

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you really should read it again, it was a puff piece.

the great thing is, we can both watch how he does in detroit. my money is on total failure, but you will no doubt continue to kiss his butt despite MORE failure.

"bevell is my friend and all those meany heads are stuuuuuuuupid!!!"

there, i summed it up for you.
 

WizardHawk

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you really should read it again, it was a puff piece.

the great thing is, we can both watch how he does in detroit. my money is on total failure, but you will no doubt continue to kiss his butt despite MORE failure.

"bevell is my friend and all those meany heads are stuuuuuuuupid!!!"

there, i summed it up for you.
And this is more of the same stupid you've been spewing for years. Bevell is gone, why didn't they win the SB this year and go undefeated? I mean he was 100% of the problem and now he's gone? See how easy that is?

No one, NO ONE has said he was the greatest OC in the league. You and your fellow idiots have to push that narrative as part of your stupid.

You simply have no clue how the game of football works. And I seriously mean none. There isn't any such thing as a perfect play caller. None of them calls the perfect play down after down. It isn't possible.

But here's the key. This is the thing you have no chance to comprehend. Not every blown play happens because the call was bad. Sometimes, oftentimes, players fail to execute the play the same way they have practiced. And sometimes great athletes on defense blow up a great play. When you learn about that part of the game get back to us. Until then go back under your rock until next fall.
 

uwdawgfan

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you really should read it again, it was a puff piece.

the great thing is, we can both watch how he does in detroit. my money is on total failure, but you will no doubt continue to kiss his butt despite MORE failure.

"bevell is my friend and all those meany heads are stuuuuuuuupid!!!"

there, i summed it up for you.
They will blame line or lack of receivers....Uncle Bevell has long leash on this board.
 
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MrS

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And this is more of the same stupid you've been spewing for years. Bevell is gone, why didn't they win the SB this year and go undefeated? I mean he was 100% of the problem and now he's gone? See how easy that is?

No one, NO ONE has said he was the greatest OC in the league. You and your fellow idiots have to push that narrative as part of your stupid.

You simply have no clue how the game of football works. And I seriously mean none. There isn't any such thing as a perfect play caller. None of them calls the perfect play down after down. It isn't possible.

But here's the key. This is the thing you have no chance to comprehend. Not every blown play happens because the call was bad. Sometimes, oftentimes, players fail to execute the play the same way they have practiced. And sometimes great athletes on defense blow up a great play. When you learn about that part of the game get back to us. Until then go back under your rock until next fall.

You are right, all those plays jimmy graham was supposed to block the other teams top pass rusher and failed were clearly jimmys fault.
 

WizardHawk

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You are right, all those plays jimmy graham was supposed to block the other teams top pass rusher and failed were clearly jimmys fault.
So Bevell was the head coach to you over that span. Neat.

:burt:

Every time you post you prove more and more what a football retard you really are. Keep up the good work. :thumb:
 

MrS

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yep any criticism of bevell is immediately deflected to someone else. the players, pete carroll, john schneider.

can you say one single thing about bevell that is negative?

schneider got the players bevell wanted, not his fault he misused them.
 

WizardHawk

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yep any criticism of bevell is immediately deflected to someone else. the players, pete carroll, john schneider.

can you say one single thing about bevell that is negative?

schneider got the players bevell wanted, not his fault he misused them.
1) I've criticized Bevell and every other entity on that team many times. That's the point you keep missing and aren't capable of even comprehending. The failures on offense have been due to quite a few different things of which Bevell certainly had his hand in. He's gone now and it's still not ideal. Why? Because it wasn't JUST anything he did or didn't do. Some of the gains have been because of the worse issue they had with Tom Cable. That line is better and literally everyone sees that except the blind haters.

2) You again out yourself if you believe Schneider goes to the OC and asks him to pick players and then goes and gets those pieces. If that really is something you believe you are even farther from reality than I had thought.

3) As final proof you are broken beyond repair, can YOU make even one compliment or accept Bevell had any had at all in developing Wilson and/or their successful runs to back to back super bowls? And yes, we know already you can't. They won despite him, not because of him. It's entirely fucking stupid to have that view. It's not normal nor healthy.
 

MrS

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bevell and cable were problem 1 and 1a. somehow its ok to lay blame on cable for the OL but we cant lay the play calling at bevells feet.

why arent we blaming the OL on Schneider? he made all those craptastic picks.

and on that subject, yes they went out and got guys bevell wanted. turdvaris and harvin were HIS GUYS in minnesota. the same can be said about OL, they drafted the guys CABLE wanted. which im sure you will deny as well.
 

WizardHawk

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bevell and cable were problem 1 and 1a. somehow its ok to lay blame on cable for the OL but we cant lay the play calling at bevells feet.

why arent we blaming the OL on Schneider? he made all those craptastic picks.

and on that subject, yes they went out and got guys bevell wanted. turdvaris and harvin were HIS GUYS in minnesota. the same can be said about OL, they drafted the guys CABLE wanted. which im sure you will deny as well.
:L
Either stick to your guns, or when finally agreeing with others admit that's what you are now doing. One or the other.

Everyone here has said all along, without fail, there is blame to go around to everyone, including Schneider AND BEVELL. You keep wanting to suggest somehow we are blaming everyone but him, however that hasn't happened once. You and your fellow football retards keep jumping back and forth while we have been rock steady in words and belief.

Schneider hasn't had the same success at drafting since his head of scouting left the team and went to the skins shortly after all that success in building up the team in their early run. And it is discussed literally every year. Where've you been?

How do you NOT get that saying the line was historically bad, the picks haven't been as solid as they were, they failed to use the pieces they did get correctly, etc is on ALL OF THE FUCKING COACHING STAFF. It starts at the top. Carroll is the one setting the tone for that unit and dictating the conservative style. Schneider wasn't hitting on picks. Harvin and Graham were terrible pieces to pick up given they wanted to force them into a game style they weren't best suited for. And you should blame ALL OF THEM for it. That has been said over and over and over again, yet here you are now changing to ask why we aren't blaming them? :L

Why I said you are a total idiot is not understanding Carroll and Schneider are still running that unit and will have the same blinders on it for whoever they tap at OC. You won't ever get a dynamic offense no matter who calls the plays. They did improve things a lot changing Cable because if you are going to have a run first offense you kind of need to have a line that blocks well for it and doesn't cost you league leading penalty yards every fucking year. That's why removing him was a MUCH bigger piece for moving this offense forward than changing the caller. They still did run on first, run on second, incomplete on 3rd and long way too fucking much. And that's not going to change as long as it's Carroll's offense. Period. Until you get that you will again shortly start calling for this callers head, and then the next one after him.
 

MrS

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:L
Either stick to your guns, or when finally agreeing with others admit that's what you are now doing. One or the other.

agree that bevell and cable were the problem? i never have said otherwise.

Everyone here has said all along, without fail, there is blame to go around to everyone, including Schneider AND BEVELL. You keep wanting to suggest somehow we are blaming everyone but him, however that hasn't happened once. You and your fellow football retards keep jumping back and forth while we have been rock steady in words and belief.

i dont recall you or any of the bevell lovers saying anything negative about him. all i have ever seen is blame shifting, which is what you are still doing.

Schneider hasn't had the same success at drafting since his head of scouting left the team and went to the skins shortly after all that success in building up the team in their early run. And it is discussed literally every year. Where've you been?

no, he hasnt. they have always struggled getting anyone worth a shit in round 1. but, drafting OL was cables domain and they took players he wanted.

How do you NOT get that saying the line was historically bad, the picks haven't been as solid as they were, they failed to use the pieces they did get correctly, etc is on ALL OF THE FUCKING COACHING STAFF. It starts at the top. Carroll is the one setting the tone for that unit and dictating the conservative style. Schneider wasn't hitting on picks. Harvin and Graham were terrible pieces to pick up given they wanted to force them into a game style they weren't best suited for. And you should blame ALL OF THEM for it. That has been said over and over and over again, yet here you are now changing to ask why we aren't blaming them? :L

yet without bevell we scored the 2nd most points in team history and led the league in rushing again with a 7th round pick taking most of the carries and wilson running very little.

Why I said you are a total idiot is not understanding Carroll and Schneider are still running that unit and will have the same blinders on it for whoever they tap at OC. You won't ever get a dynamic offense no matter who calls the plays. They did improve things a lot changing Cable because if you are going to have a run first offense you kind of need to have a line that blocks well for it and doesn't cost you league leading penalty yards every fucking year. That's why removing him was a MUCH bigger piece for moving this offense forward than changing the caller. They still did run on first, run on second, incomplete on 3rd and long way too fucking much. And that's not going to change as long as it's Carroll's offense. Period. Until you get that you will again shortly start calling for this callers head, and then the next one after him.

and yet, and yet, and yet the offense is MILES AHEAD of where it was with bevell with lesser talent.

are you really going to argue that is ONLY due to the OL improving? really?
 

WizardHawk

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agree that bevell and cable were the problem? i never have said otherwise.
No, by admitting Schneider and the rest of the staff had their part. That's new for you.

i dont recall you or any of the bevell lovers saying anything negative about him. all i have ever seen is blame shifting, which is what you are still doing.
Give specifics. You won't because you can't. It's more of your false narrative protecting strawman bullshit. I personally have said many times he had his hand in not using Harvin and Graham reasonably and of course no one has ever said they agreed with every call he made. To you, anyone who says the problem was well beyond a play caller means they loved everything about that play caller. There's a fuck ton of room in between. I've never seen a single person ever say Bevell was perfect. Doesn't stop you from making that claim that all of us have said it.

no, he hasnt. they have always struggled getting anyone worth a shit in round 1. but, drafting OL was cables domain and they took players he wanted.
Big difference between Cable, who was the run game coordinator, having direct input in player acquisition and what input Bevell had. Cable had a LOT more input/control than he should have which was a huge part of the problem with that unit on his watch.

yet without bevell we scored the 2nd most points in team history and led the league in rushing again with a 7th round pick taking most of the carries and wilson running very little.
And you can't figure out how that correlates with Cable's departure. :pound: No, seriously you have no clue.

and yet, and yet, and yet the offense is MILES AHEAD of where it was with bevell with lesser talent.
are you really going to argue that is ONLY due to the OL improving? really?
They threw for like 500y less this year than last.
They moved from the 11th ranked offense to the 7th this year. (not exactly miles)

They committed 37 less penalties this year than last. (guess how many of those were linemen related)

We could go on and on with the actual stats, but it would all sadly still go way over your head. Your Bevell derangement syndrome won't allow you to see the truth.
 

blstoker

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i dont recall you or any of the bevell lovers saying anything negative about him. all i have ever seen is blame shifting, which is what you are still doing.

Just because you refuse to pay attention to anything but complete agreement with your outlandish statements, doesn't mean that people didn't think there were things Bevell could've done better.. Anything less than a complete condemnation and declaration that Bevell is the worst coach in the history of the sport has been rejected as criticism and declared to be a supporting statement for Bevell.

yet without bevell we scored the 2nd most points in team history and led the league in rushing again with a 7th round pick taking most of the carries and wilson running very little.

Football isn't in a vacuum, and with additional rule changes that made offense more plentiful this season as well as changing personnel, including bringing in players who fit the scheme better than what was being used before - as well as a general improved health of the players on offense overall can all help explain why there was better scoring.

and yet, and yet, and yet the offense is MILES AHEAD of where it was with bevell with lesser talent.

5 points over Bevell's best season isn't exactly miles ahead. Unless you me better than 2016/2017, but then you can't claim that there was lesser talent this season - cause in just about every way the players in 2018 were better than the players of 2017, so your talent claim is just flat out wrong.

About the only thing you can say has definitely improved has been their red zone - and all of that improvement has been due to the improvement in the running game. Don't believe me? Here's Wilson's passing red zone numbers form 2017 and 2018

2017 38-68-258-21-1
2018 37-67-282-24-2

Now, here's the Hawks running red zone numbers (minus Wilson) 2017 and 2018.

2017 37-34-0
2018 67-193-12

I could show the same thing with inside the 10. Everything - including the increase in red zone performance points to the fact that Seattle improved their run game - as Wilson and the passing game were pretty much on par with what they've been in the past, if in a reduced volume.

Schottenheimer has run the offense very similarly to how Bevell ran it, including the frustrating run-run-pass 3 and outs (I believe we led the league in 3 and outs this year). It's the same offense, with very similar play calling styles being implemented. Other than stupid assurtions about our last OC, I have no problems about how our offense was run this season- and if I wasn't sure that similar things won't soon be thrown out against this OC, I wouldn't even care - but I'm sure these same arguments will come up about Shottenheimer as soon as his offense doesn't rank in the top 10 (since they sure as hell happened the entire time Bevell was in the top 10).

are you really going to argue that is ONLY due to the OL improving? really?

Well, since the line has improved to the point that we got better performances out of LT, LG, C, RG, RT than what Bevell had to work with the last 3 years of his tenure, we're looking at nearly half the offense being improved without even looking at any of the skill positions. I mean, didn't PFF have the Seahawks ranked dead last in OL performance last year (we ranked 11th in scoring) and this year they improved to somewhere around 20th? That's a pretty big jump in performance. Solari has done a phenomenal job this season with what we had to work with.
 
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Cloud

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What the Championship games showed the league yesterday is that PK's have become an important part of the game if teams want to advance far in the playoffs. The greg zuerlein kick yesterday would've been good from 65 yards.

The last two seasons the Hawks have been plagued with poor PK's performances since Hauschka left so it should be one of the important needs for this offseason.
 

MrS

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No, by admitting Schneider and the rest of the staff had their part. That's new for you.

you clearly didnt understand my point. im not blaming schneider, i am merely point out that YOU are blaming schneider. he got the guys bevell wanted, but you want to blame schneider for that.


Give specifics. You won't because you can't. It's more of your false narrative protecting strawman bullshit. I personally have said many times he had his hand in not using Harvin and Graham reasonably and of course no one has ever said they agreed with every call he made. To you, anyone who says the problem was well beyond a play caller means they loved everything about that play caller. There's a fuck ton of room in between. I've never seen a single person ever say Bevell was perfect. Doesn't stop you from making that claim that all of us have said it.

im going based on what you and others have said. any criticism of bevell results in blame shifting and stat cherry picking to defend him. im not going based on stats, im going based on eye balls. we all watched pathetic situational play calling and bad red zone offense for years and years, resulting in a lost superbowl. and i called it repeatedly by the way, i said over and over that his schtick was going to lose us a big game and i was sadly right.


Big difference between Cable, who was the run game coordinator, having direct input in player acquisition and what input Bevell had. Cable had a LOT more input/control than he should have which was a huge part of the problem with that unit on his watch.

yep they let cable have all this input but gave bevell 0, then just happened to go get players he coached in minnesota. all mere coincidence.


And you can't figure out how that correlates with Cable's departure. :pound: No, seriously you have no clue.

it also correlates with bevells departure.


They threw for like 500y less this year than last.
They moved from the 11th ranked offense to the 7th this year. (not exactly miles)

and scored more points, more TDs, kicked less FGs, and improved dramatically in the redzone.

They committed 37 less penalties this year than last. (guess how many of those were linemen related)

have you actually looked into the numbers or are you just pulling that out your ass?

yes ifedi had 6 less penalties, but we also lost our 2 other top penalty machines, michael bennet and jeremy lane. the top 3 offenders were OL this year, ifedi, sweezy, fluker. your narrative isnt quite holding up is it?

We could go on and on with the actual stats, but it would all sadly still go way over your head. Your Bevell derangement syndrome won't allow you to see the truth.

the truth is bevell was fired and you think he should have kept his job. i guess carroll and schneider are deranged idiots too.
 
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MrS

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Just because you refuse to pay attention to anything but complete agreement with your outlandish statements, doesn't mean that people didn't think there were things Bevell could've done better.. Anything less than a complete condemnation and declaration that Bevell is the worst coach in the history of the sport has been rejected as criticism and declared to be a supporting statement for Bevell.

well then let us hear your prediction for detroit this year. will he make us all regret firing him or will you all be accepting that i was right?

Football isn't in a vacuum, and with additional rule changes that made offense more plentiful this season as well as changing personnel, including bringing in players who fit the scheme better than what was being used before - as well as a general improved health of the players on offense overall can all help explain why there was better scoring.

the only thing that really changed with this offense was the lack of running by wilson. that was a HUGE boon to the bevell years when we had no real logic or reason to the play calling.



5 points over Bevell's best season isn't exactly miles ahead. Unless you me better than 2016/2017, but then you can't claim that there was lesser talent this season - cause in just about every way the players in 2018 were better than the players of 2017, so your talent claim is just flat out wrong.

About the only thing you can say has definitely improved has been their red zone - and all of that improvement has been due to the improvement in the running game. Don't believe me? Here's Wilson's passing red zone numbers form 2017 and 2018

2017 38-68-258-21-1
2018 37-67-282-24-2

Now, here's the Hawks running red zone numbers (minus Wilson) 2017 and 2018.

2017 37-34-0
2018 67-193-12

I could show the same thing with inside the 10. Everything - including the increase in red zone performance points to the fact that Seattle improved their run game - as Wilson and the passing game were pretty much on par with what they've been in the past, if in a reduced volume.

you only want to look at one year, 2017 when we scored 0 rushing TDs with our RBs. fact is, the redzone % was better than any year under bevell. we also kicked less field goals than every year but 2012. and mind you, most of these redzone % were in years where russell was a serious running threat and we had lynch.

year TDs FGs Redzone
2018 50 22/27 65.5
2017 38 21/29 55.6
2016 36 33/37 46.4
2015 44 29/31 55.1
2014 40 31/37 51.7
2013 41 33/35 56.1
2012 43 24/27 57.4
2011 30 25/30 47.8
2010 27 25/30 42.0

Schottenheimer has run the offense very similarly to how Bevell ran it, including the frustrating run-run-pass 3 and outs (I believe we led the league in 3 and outs this year). It's the same offense, with very similar play calling styles being implemented. Other than stupid assurtions about our last OC, I have no problems about how our offense was run this season- and if I wasn't sure that similar things won't soon be thrown out against this OC, I wouldn't even care - but I'm sure these same arguments will come up about Shottenheimer as soon as his offense doesn't rank in the top 10 (since they sure as hell happened the entire time Bevell was in the top 10).

of course you have no problems, you are a true die hard koolaid drinker. nothing this team does is worthy of criticism.

im sorry, but being a fan means being able to criticize anything and everything a team does. this isnt church and the team is not God.



Well, since the line has improved to the point that we got better performances out of LT, LG, C, RG, RT than what Bevell had to work with the last 3 years of his tenure, we're looking at nearly half the offense being improved without even looking at any of the skill positions. I mean, didn't PFF have the Seahawks ranked dead last in OL performance last year (we ranked 11th in scoring) and this year they improved to somewhere around 20th? That's a pretty big jump in performance. Solari has done a phenomenal job this season with what we had to work with.

i have no idea where pff had our OL. it was improved for sure and i was the most excited person on this board when they hired solari.

but again, you are shifting blame entirely to the OL and giving the OL all the credit for the improved offense.

we had a 7th round starter at RB, a wilson that ran sparingly, no doug baldwin for almost the entire year. i think what the offense did this year was incredible and no one else wants to admit it because..... bevell.
 

blstoker

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we had a 7th round starter at RB, a wilson that ran sparingly, no doug baldwin for almost the entire year. i think what the offense did this year was incredible and no one else wants to admit it because..... bevell.

When did I say the offense didn't do a great job? All my comments are based on the context of this particular conversation, nothing more. The offense not only did a great job, but they outperformed what I expected them to do, by a pretty large margin. I'm impressed they finished 6th in the league in scoring, and I think it's incredible any time a run first offense finishes in the top ten in such a pass heavy league.

That said, I can say that Shottenheimer did a good job this year, and still think Bevell was a good OC as well. Do I think he should have been fired? Yes (OMG, HOW CAN THIS BE???). Things were getting stagnant, and needed some new energy, and I wasn't surprised by it at all. The difference here is that I don't think the offense's performance would've been much different had they just fired Cable and kept Bevell as OC. I also don't think the defense would've performed much different had they kept Richard, instead of bringing in Norton. We will never know.

Your point is that the offense's improvement is mostly because they got rid of Bevell. Not because they picked up Schottenheimer, have you even typed his name in a single post in the last year? Or even referenced him?

My point is that the offense's improvement is mostly because they got Solari. Yes, firing Cable was good IMO, but I am still talking about the coaches on our current staff, the ones actually putting in the work to make this year's team successful (and hopefully in years to come as well).
 

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i disagree that solari is mostly the reason, dumping bevell and cable is the reason. yes solari is a huge upgrade and i said that on day one, but as far as OC goes I think anyone could have come in here and improved the offense.

no more stagnant scoreless first halves, no more red zone futility, no more settling for FGs constantly, and amazingly we actually scored on an opening drive or two. you cant blame or give credit for ALL of that to the OL.

i love that bevell got hired, now we will have more evidence to look at an analyze one year from now.
 

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i disagree that solari is mostly the reason, dumping bevell and cable is the reason. yes solari is a huge upgrade and i said that on day one, but as far as OC goes I think anyone could have come in here and improved the offense.

no more stagnant scoreless first halves, no more red zone futility, no more settling for FGs constantly, and amazingly we actually scored on an opening drive or two. you cant blame or give credit for ALL of that to the OL.

All, no. Most - sure. Wilson has more time to throw. RBs have holes to run though. Sounds like the things every offense needs to be successful. Good for them. The difference from the 13th best offense and the 6th best offense is a competent line. Go figure.

So, in your mind, Bevell and Cable were the entire problem, but Schottenheimer and Solari weren't the solution. Nice logic there.
 
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