2019 Pirates

thedddd · Dec 5, 2018

Now with the Cards getting a legit bat in the middle it will be tough for the Pirates to contend again.

thedddd · Dec 11, 2018

So trade Nova to free up salary and then sign Jordan Lyles?

Diamondeye · Dec 11, 2018

thedddd said:
So trade Nova to free up salary and then sign Jordan Lyles?

Why did they even bother giving up all that young talent for Archer if they're just going to dump their likely #3 starter in the off season?

It makes no sense from a baseball standpoint.

I'm starting to really think the Archer trade was merely a PR stunt, amid declining attendance and an expiring TV contract.

Bob Nutting needs punched in the face.

ramburgh · Dec 11, 2018

I like freeing up Nova's salary. Kingham could put up better numbers with someone pitching the first inning (Lyles?). Hoping to see a solid at or two added. Also think they will add another SP.

Opening day roster:
SP-Archer, Taillon, Williams, Musgrove, Kingham/FA/Trade
RP-Vazquez, Kela, Crick, Rodriguez, Lyles, Brault, FA/Trade
C-Cervelli, Diaz
IF-Bell, Kang, Moran, Gonzalez, Newman or Kramer, FA, FA
OF-Marte, Dickerson, Chisenhall, Frazier

I think it would be worth exploring bringing in Tulo and Martin and have the Blue Jays pay their salaries. Add one of Lowrie/Murphy/Dozier and this team is really interesting. Trade Cervelli (peak value and last year of contract) as he is aging and catching less. Start Diaz with Martin backing him up.

Trade/sign a solid SP along with a Lefty for the pen. Payroll is roughly $85k if they trade Cervelli and add Tulo, Martin, Lowrie/Murphy/Dozier, SP and LHRP.

Roster then looks like:
SP-Archer, Taillon, Williams, Musgrove, Kingham/FA/Trade
RP-Vazquez, Kela, Crick, Rodriguez, Lyles, Brault, FA/Trade
C-Diaz, Martin
IF-Bell, Kang, Moran, Gonzalez, Newman or Kramer, Tulo, Lowrie/Murphy/Dozier
OF-Marte, Dickerson, Chisenhall, Frazier

thedddd · Dec 11, 2018

The trading of Nova I don't have issues with because Kingham can do what he does the issue is "the freeing up salary" is for what? If they do nothing else this off season then the Archer deal was pointless and I agree just a PR move.

steelparrot · Dec 12, 2018

Pittsburgh Pirates 2019 Salaries Payroll

Our payroll is 47 million now, with dickerson and kela the only 2 arbitration eligible, so call it 10 for those 2 and 5-10 for all the pre arb guys and we are sitting somewhere in the 60s.

We can sign 2 players to 3yr 45 million dollar contracts and still be under 100, 3 if we trade Cervelli... maybe 4 if we trade/nontender Dickerson too??

I cant imagine we are going to cut payroll in the last year of our tv contract.

I hope we dont see this: "We tried to spend 30 million more in free agency, but we couldnt get a deal done"

Darkstone42 · Dec 12, 2018

Diamondeye said:
Why did they even bother giving up all that young talent for Archer if they're just going to dump their likely #3 starter in the off season?

It makes no sense from a baseball standpoint.

I'm starting to really think the Archer trade was merely a PR stunt, amid declining attendance and an expiring TV contract.

Bob Nutting needs punched in the face.

At best, Nova is the Pirates' 5th best starter. Taillon and Archer are clearly better than him. Musgrove is probably better and has a higher ceiling. Williams's magic show is more effective. Kingham, Brault, Lyles, and Brubaker are all bigger risks to match Nova's production, but all have higher ceilings.

Nova isn't a loss. And freeing up that rotation spot for a higher upside option--even if it's a risk--is a good move.

Darkstone42 · Dec 12, 2018

steelparrot said:
Pittsburgh Pirates 2019 Salaries Payroll

Our payroll is 47 million now, with dickerson and kela the only 2 arbitration eligible, so call it 10 for those 2 and 5-10 for all the pre arb guys and we are sitting somewhere in the 60s.

We can sign 2 players to 3yr 45 million dollar contracts and still be under 100, 3 if we trade Cervelli... maybe 4 if we trade/nontender Dickerson too??

I cant imagine we are going to cut payroll in the last year of our tv contract.

I hope we dont see this: "We tried to spend 30 million more in free agency, but we couldnt get a deal done"

I think trading for an overpriced but effective veteran LHSP with one or two years left is a good use of that money, or even being aggressive on someone like Happ or (very optimistically) Keuchel on the free agent market, though the term on pitchers as old as they are might be a tough pill to swallow. Heck, Gio Gonzalez and Wade Miley would be good targets to fill Nova's spot, and they'd each be far cheaper. Heck, if you're looking for a reclamation arm, Drew Pomeranz would be interesting.

A player like Lowrie or Cabrera to fill whatever role needs to be filled on the infield would also be a good get. I'd sign one of those guys and also Jose Iglesias as a defensive option at shortstop. If someone wants to give up a great piece for Cervelli, maybe talk to Wilson Ramos to split time with Diaz, or (very ambitiously) Grandal to start.

Darkstone42 · Dec 12, 2018

A reclamation project who someone already reclaimed for us. I'd be good with this get. Big upside, but some risk. Age is a concern, but love the stuff, and his 2.4 WAR and 2.83 ERA last season in 25 games (24 starts) is certainly encouraging. If you buy his turnaround, this would be an upgrade over Nova in the rotation.

ramburgh · Dec 13, 2018

Sounds like the Pirates are definitely planning on acquiring at least one more SP. Would love to see Sanchez, Wood or Stripling. Maybe even Wood and Stripling for Cervelli and a prospect? It would be nice to sign Sanchez and not give up a prospect. It appears that the Pirates are trying to acquire an upgrade over Nova. Between the Archer trade and upgrading Nova, it feels like they are trying to be serious playoff contenders this year.

Darkstone42 · Dec 14, 2018

ramburgh said:
Sounds like the Pirates are definitely planning on acquiring at least one more SP. Would love to see Sanchez, Wood or Stripling. Maybe even Wood and Stripling for Cervelli and a prospect? It would be nice to sign Sanchez and not give up a prospect. It appears that the Pirates are trying to acquire an upgrade over Nova. Between the Archer trade and upgrading Nova, it feels like they are trying to be serious playoff contenders this year.

I think they're right to do this through the rotation, too. The team already has a good foundation of pitching. Building on that to the point that it's elite might be the best way to contend. I'd like to see them add a bat, too, on the infield, but they still won't have a truly good offense at least until Polanco gets back and gets his rhythm. (Cabrera would be my favorite get. Flexibility to play three IF spots, and a lefty with power who could maybe actually take advantage of the short porch in right.)

thedddd · Dec 15, 2018

Darkstone42 said:
I think they're right to do this through the rotation, too. The team already has a good foundation of pitching. Building on that to the point that it's elite might be the best way to contend. I'd like to see them add a bat, too, on the infield, but they still won't have a truly good offense at least until Polanco gets back and gets his rhythm. (Cabrera would be my favorite get. Flexibility to play three IF spots, and a lefty with power who could maybe actually take advantage of the short porch in right.)

I totally agree, also if they are looking at Ahmed or Galvis they should have just resigned Mercer.

ramburgh · Dec 18, 2018

If the Pirate sign Tulo to the league minimum for 2019 do they have the rights to him in 2020 (he is under contract in 2019-20) if they pay him the league minimum again? Is that an automatic or a negotiated part of him signing with a team in 2019?

If they sign Tulo and a solid second baseman then the line-up could be really good if veteran 2B, Kang & Tulo can hold up. Plus there should be improvement in Bell, Moran, Diaz and Chisenhall. Marte and Dickerson should produce similarly to their last few years.

Marte(R), Dickerson(L), Dozier(R)/Murphy(L)/Lowrie(S), Tulo (R), Bell (S), Kang (R)/Moran (L), Chisenhall (L)/Polanco(L), Diaz (R)

Start Frazier (L) 3-5 days/week to give Dozier/Murphy/Lowrie and Chisenhall a couple days off each week. Maybe start Gonzalez a few days every week at SS to ease Tulo back in/keep him rested?

The line-up has the potential to be really good but there is potential for a lot to go wrong also.

steelparrot · Dec 18, 2018

ramburgh said:
If the Pirate sign Tulo to the league minimum for 2019 do they have the rights to him in 2020 (he is under contract in 2019-20) if they pay him the league minimum again? Is that an automatic or a negotiated part of him signing with a team in 2019?

I'm 99.999% sure its negotiated with the pirates. He just cant get more than the dead money unless someone offers him more money and then they are on the hook for the whole enchilada.

thedddd · Dec 18, 2018

If they can bring in Lowrie and or Tulo then that will help their questionable infield. Not sure either will come, the only good thing for Tulo is the fact he is familiar with Clint Hurdle.

Granted Tulo is nowhere near a guarantee.

Darkstone42 · Dec 19, 2018

thedddd said:
If they can bring in Lowrie and or Tulo then that will help their questionable infield. Not sure either will come, the only good thing for Tulo is the fact he is familiar with Clint Hurdle.

Granted Tulo is nowhere near a guarantee.

I'm all-in on a Tulo-Lowire MI connection with Frazier giving some insurance against someone not working out. If Asdrubal Cabrera is still out there, I'd like him, too. Left-handed power bat who could fill in at short at need.

thedddd · Dec 21, 2018

Darkstone42 said:
I'm all-in on a Tulo-Lowire MI connection with Frazier giving some insurance against someone not working out. If Asdrubal Cabrera is still out there, I'd like him, too. Left-handed power bat who could fill in at short at need.

A's, Rangers, Rays Agree To Three-Team Trade Sending Jurickson Profar To Oakland
Interesting deal for the A's probably means Lowrie won't be back and helps the opportunity to bring him in.
Also I wonder if they want to move on from Barreto? If so curious to see what type of offers the A's get for him.

steelerssb · Dec 21, 2018

Starting pitcher market is drying up with Wood and Sanchez off the table and apparently Stripling for Cervelli didn't happen.

But hey, Neal Huntington will go mack about this team's financial flexibility at least!

steelerssb · Dec 21, 2018

thedddd said:
A's, Rangers, Rays Agree To Three-Team Trade Sending Jurickson Profar To Oakland
Interesting deal for the A's probably means Lowrie won't be back and helps the opportunity to bring him in.
Also I wonder if they want to move on from Barreto? If so curious to see what type of offers the A's get for him.

If this team is serious they get Lowrie now. Not "we came close" like they always say before getting out bid by $2 million, actually getting him.

thedddd · Dec 21, 2018

steelerssb said:
If this team is serious they get Lowrie now. Not "we came close" like they always say before getting out bid by $2 million, actually getting him.

Yep after that Reds deal they have to willing to spend a little to shore this team up. Their middle IF is dreadful right now with "hoping" on prospects.

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