• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

My worldview just exploded! Skip Bayless with the factual mic drop on the 'play.'

BSUSeahawk

KFFL Refugee
873
81
28
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Location
Puyallup, Washington
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
There's a huge misconception about Lynch's goal line abilities because he breaks a lot of tackles and is tough to bring down. That doesn't necessarily translate to being a great goal line back. You're facing a jumbo package with one yard to go - Lynch's ability to make defenders miss tackles really doesn't come into play in that scenario. If the run play is into the line (as opposed to a sweep or pitch), that's 95% on the offensive line. If the OL doesn't win at the line, Lynch is facing multiple 300 lb DL, not a LB or safety in space. Hence the 4/5.

I would have liked to see some kind of rollout or play action, if I'm quibbling, but most of the national narrative around that play was strictly hindsight.
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
It's the benefit of hindsight and years to think about it, but I think the best strategy would have been to have RW roll and waste as much time as possible and then either run OB or throw it away to give us 2 more plays to win the game and not leave NE with enough time to tie even with a TD on 3rd down. Even if the slant had resulted in a score, NE still has time for a FG.

Wasn't it the Arizona game that year that he made some LB or safety look foolish on a rollout? Scored easily. That was the mental picture I had when they were coming out of the huddle, especially how bare that right side of the field was, just the four guys, Lockette, Kearse, Browner and Butler.
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
There's a huge misconception about Lynch's goal line abilities because he breaks a lot of tackles and is tough to bring down. That doesn't necessarily translate to being a great goal line back. You're facing a jumbo package with one yard to go - Lynch's ability to make defenders miss tackles really doesn't come into play in that scenario. If the run play is into the line (as opposed to a sweep or pitch), that's 95% on the offensive line. If the OL doesn't win at the line, Lynch is facing multiple 300 lb DL, not a LB or safety in space. Hence the 4/5.

I would have liked to see some kind of rollout or play action, if I'm quibbling, but most of the national narrative around that play was strictly hindsight.

And in fairness to Lynch, prior to about a year before that game, he WAS able to sometimes move the pile against the big uglies. But he wasn't able to do that as much in '14, and I think we saw the continuation of his struggles with it in the game Sunday in London. He's STILL murder against DB's and safeties, but against 300 lb'ers, not so much anymore.
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Lynch was never a goal line beast of a back. being 1 for 5 from the 1 yard line that year is about what i remember from him for his whole time here. He was more likely to score from the 5 than he was from the 1. Also in the flied between the 20's he was never a good choice on say 3rd and 1. I could be wrong but i feel he was stopped at least 50% of the time in those situations.
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Lynch was never a goal line beast of a back. being 1 for 5 from the 1 yard line that year is about what i remember from him for his whole time here. He was more likely to score from the 5 than he was from the 1. Also in the flied between the 20's he was never a good choice on say 3rd and 1. I could be wrong but i feel he was stopped at least 50% of the time in those situations.

I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I remember seeing a decline in short yardage success the last half of the 13 season, and the whole '14 season. Did he always get short yardage gains? No, nobody does against NFL defences, but he was pretty good at it. But as soon as those back issues became a problem for him, he seemed to lose some of that, you'd still see it in flashes, but his best success came in getting through the line of scrimmage, where he was till murder against DB's and safties, even LB's.
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
also we have to look at the massive decline in quality Oline play from the Hawks. I really shouldn't knock on Lynch and his lack of ability to get those short yardage plays when his Line was plan and simple pure trash. He would be hit in the backfield on almost every touch he had. So when you think about it the massive failing of the Oline is as much a reason for the INT as anyone.
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Heh, I think you're trying too hard with that one.
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Heh, I think you're trying too hard with that one.

cause and effect, these things are connected. Had Lynch been 5-5 from the 1 they no doubt hand it off. Had the Oline not been utter trash at blocking he might have been 5 for 5.
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
cause and effect, these things are connected. Had Lynch been 5-5 from the 1 they no doubt hand it off. Had the Oline not been utter trash at blocking he might have been 5 for 5.

Sure, and if your Aunt had a penis, she'd be your uncle.
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
i did not say "IF" there is no if. Fact, Hawks oline was trash. Fact, a better oline turns Lynch's 1-5 into something better. Fact, Marshawn WAS only 1-5 behind one of the leagues worst Blocking Olines.
 

JMR

Go Army!
6,818
1,918
173
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Wasn't it the Arizona game that year that he made some LB or safety look foolish on a rollout? Scored easily. That was the mental picture I had when they were coming out of the huddle, especially how bare that right side of the field was, just the four guys, Lockette, Kearse, Browner and Butler.
Yeah, I can't remember who it was but he definitely made someone look silly in the red zone on a TD run in AZ.


It was actually 2 people -- couldn't make out name of #57, and then Cromartie got juked right after. Nasty.
 

MKHawk

KFFL Refugee
514
61
28
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Location
Outside Buddy-ville
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
It's not just hindsight. Well the "You gotta hands it to Lynch!!!" is.

Just for further support for Lynch for 1 yards when they know it's coming isn't automatic: the entire reason Seattle needed a TD and not a FG there is Lynch got stuffed on a read option on 3rd and 1 in the red zone in the 3rd quarter.

But to those of you saying, "well Kearse had to get no push AND Lockette had to run a poor route (I'll add, AND Russ' slant pass had to be a but off the mark)" all of those things should have been expected, which is why it was a bad play call on it's face before we even factor in the horrid result. Why they didn't roll Russ out I will never know.

And yes, Seattle should just give up on using gunners for important routes in the playoffs. (Alex Bannister in the '03 playoffs anyone?)
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
It's not just hindsight. Well the "You gotta hands it to Lynch!!!" is.

Just for further support for Lynch for 1 yards when they know it's coming isn't automatic: the entire reason Seattle needed a TD and not a FG there is Lynch got stuffed on a read option on 3rd and 1 in the red zone in the 3rd quarter.

But to those of you saying, "well Kearse had to get no push AND Lockette had to run a poor route (I'll add, AND Russ' slant pass had to be a but off the mark)" all of those things should have been expected, which is why it was a bad play call on it's face before we even factor in the horrid result. Why they didn't roll Russ out I will never know.

And yes, Seattle should just give up on using gunners for important routes in the playoffs. (Alex Bannister in the '03 playoffs anyone?)

And again, I keep coming back to the idea that even WITH Butler jumping the route, 95 times out of 100, the worst that is in incomplete. How'd you feel about a weekend in Vegas at the 95% tables?

It was just a slant. We weren't asking our all-star QB to do something any high school QB does as routine.
 

JMR

Go Army!
6,818
1,918
173
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The only reason that pass wasnt where it should have been is because of Lockette's false step. Russell doesn't have time to do anything there but catch and throw through the lane to where the receiver should be. Split second stuff, not sitting there and gauging where the receiver is and where they are going to be when the ball gets there.
 

Anointed One

Gone Country!
21,505
6,060
533
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,716.70
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The only reason that pass wasnt where it should have been is because of Lockette's false step. Russell doesn't have time to do anything there but catch and throw through the lane to where the receiver should be. Split second stuff, not sitting there and gauging where the receiver is and where they are going to be when the ball gets there.

Which is the reason I felt it was the wrong personnel package in there... Lockette, one of the most inexperienced receiver on the team, should not have been the primary on the biggest play of the game... He ran a horrible route, which was the main reason he didn't get a lot of playing time - poor route running...
 

MKHawk

KFFL Refugee
514
61
28
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Location
Outside Buddy-ville
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
And again, I keep coming back to the idea that even WITH Butler jumping the route, 95 times out of 100, the worst that is in incomplete. How'd you feel about a weekend in Vegas at the 95% tables?

It was just a slant. We weren't asking our all-star QB to do something any high school QB does as routine.

Right, but with 3 plays to score to win the game, they should be calling plays that maximize the abilities of the players expected to execute the play, not plays that minimize those abilities
 

MKHawk

KFFL Refugee
514
61
28
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Location
Outside Buddy-ville
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Right, but with 3 plays to score to win the game, they should be calling plays that maximize the abilities of the players expected to execute the play, not plays that minimize those abilities

There are plenty of times in a season where you'll call plays that you aren't necessarily the strongest at executing. This should not have been one of those times.

It's not that they can't execute it, it's that there had to be at least 6 other pass plays they could have executed better that would work from the 1 yard line. I blame them for not calling one of those.
 

MKHawk

KFFL Refugee
514
61
28
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Location
Outside Buddy-ville
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The only reason that pass wasnt where it should have been is because of Lockette's false step. Russell doesn't have time to do anything there but catch and throw through the lane to where the receiver should be. Split second stuff, not sitting there and gauging where the receiver is and where they are going to be when the ball gets there.

If they were surprised by Lockette false stepping on the route they're morons.
 

chf

Well-Known Member
6,945
1,077
173
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
Calgary
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Right, but with 3 plays to score to win the game, they should be calling plays that maximize the abilities of the players expected to execute the play, not plays that minimize those abilities

We've had this discussion before. AGAIN, it's just a slant. High school QB's throw them. If you can't trust your budding top 5 QB to throw one, might as well just... I dunno, say uncle? The 'maximize' argument is why everyone and their dog thought that Marshawn was going to run it again.

Hell not even the Jones Futch Alexander Hawks didn't run left EVERY play. Even though that would be 'maximizing' their talents.

The other guys get paid too. The other guys are pretty good too. You play the %'s, and go against type in the chess match that is EVERY nfl game.
 

JMR

Go Army!
6,818
1,918
173
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If they were surprised by Lockette false stepping on the route they're morons.
Well they certainly can't be expected to be as sharp as fans with the benefit of hindsight.

To me this isn't far off from when I hear fans complain about poor officiating. Most of the time, the fans doing the complaining don't know the rules well enough to realize the ref actually made the correct call.
 
Top