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PAC 12 Thread v6.0

trojanfan12

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Looks like clay might do enough to keep his job. Fuck me. Still not impressed with the coaching and the discipline on this team. It should have been a blowout from the start. I don't know how Colorado was undefeated.

Imo, he has us close to being back. But I'm not sure he is the guy to get us the rest of the way back. As I've said before, I think from a pure coaching standpoint, that he is, but I'm not sure his loyalty to his assistants will allow it.

Looking at his record compared to PC at the same point in their respective tenures, 2.5 seasons in (I didn't count Helton's interim record from 2015):

PC was 22-9, Helton is 25-8. PC was 3-1 vs. ND and UCLA. Helton is 2-1 vs. ND and UCLA. The big difference is that PC was 3-2 in non-conference games against "name teams" and the 2 losses were very close, 1 score games. Helton is 1-2 in those games and both losses were blowouts.
 

socaljim242

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Imo, he has us close to being back. But I'm not sure he is the guy to get us the rest of the way back. As I've said before, I think from a pure coaching standpoint, that he is, but I'm not sure his loyalty to his assistants will allow it.

Looking at his record compared to PC at the same point in their respective tenures, 2.5 seasons in (I didn't count Helton's interim record from 2015):

PC was 22-9, Helton is 25-8. PC was 3-1 vs. ND and UCLA. Helton is 2-1 vs. ND and UCLA. The big difference is that PC was 3-2 in non-conference games against "name teams" and the 2 losses were very close, 1 score games. Helton is 1-2 in those games and both losses were blowouts.

If we were most fan bases you can look at his overall record and say he was doing a good job. The program is now removed from the clown show that was Kiff and Sark. He gets some points for that for sure. But USC has way too many highly rated players for them to continuously let far inferior teams hang around and someties beat them on the road. There's no killer instinct. No plan to stop the other team in the fourth from scoring and catching up when they do manage to get a big lead.. The offense keeps stalling and the defense keeps giving up big plays. Even this Sat night. They had a huge lead with like seven min left and still allowed Colorados inept offense to move the ball and score. I remember Trojan defenses that took pride in not letting the other team to score at any time.
Then there's the teams preparation and execution. It's been bad since Clay took over. The penalties you can live with if you're playing like Petes teams and still beating high ranked opponents but too many times in big games Clays team had been physically outmatched and fallen apart. The Rose Bowl against Penn State seems to be the lone exception and nw looking back most of that was because of Darnold on broken plays.
I don't think the O line play or the offense has shown anything close to enough to retain both Tee and Callaway at their positions. Tee is playing checkers while other OCs are playing chess. There were a few series where we in the stands literally called out the next three plays correctly before a punt was needed. That's just horrible.
To keep his job he should be told those two spots need to be replaced. You can't go three seasons of 4-5 star talent using high school plays and that O line has been bad for three years also with players most schools would die for.
 

trojanfan12

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If we were most fan bases you can look at his overall record and say he was doing a good job. The program is now removed from the clown show that was Kiff and Sark. He gets some points for that for sure. But USC has way too many highly rated players for them to continuously let far inferior teams hang around and someties beat them on the road. There's no killer instinct. No plan to stop the other team in the fourth from scoring and catching up when they do manage to get a big lead.. The offense keeps stalling and the defense keeps giving up big plays. Even this Sat night. They had a huge lead with like seven min left and still allowed Colorados inept offense to move the ball and score. I remember Trojan defenses that took pride in not letting the other team to score at any time.
Then there's the teams preparation and execution. It's been bad since Clay took over. The penalties you can live with if you're playing like Petes teams and still beating high ranked opponents but too many times in big games Clays team had been physically outmatched and fallen apart. The Rose Bowl against Penn State seems to be the lone exception and nw looking back most of that was because of Darnold on broken plays.
I don't think the O line play or the offense has shown anything close to enough to retain both Tee and Callaway at their positions. Tee is playing checkers while other OCs are playing chess. There were a few series where we in the stands literally called out the next three plays correctly before a punt was needed. That's just horrible.
To keep his job he should be told those two spots need to be replaced. You can't go three seasons of 4-5 star talent using high school plays and that O line has been bad for three years also with players most schools would die for.

Pretty much mostly agree. He's 2.5 seasons in (without the interim label), so imo, it's a little too early for his job to be on the line, but it's also time for him to show that he can make the tough decisions that a coach has to make to get to the level that we are used to being at.

The problem is, imo, that we have a solid chance at winning the PAC South and getting 10 wins again. It's hard to fire a coach who keeps getting 10 wins and winning their division.

For Tee, you and I disagree a bit, I think part of the problem is him learning on the job and having "green qb's" 2 of his 3 years (Darnold as a redshirt freshman and Daniels as a true freshman) playing behind an inconsistent at best o-line. I wouldn't mind giving him one more season to see what happens with JT, but I wouldn't exactly be heartbroken if Tee was let go and he brought in someone better/more experienced.

Regardless of how they finish the season, I think he's going to have to shake up the coaching staff a bit and that at the very least, Callaway has to go.

I wonder what the chances are of him stealing Ruel away from Pete and the Seahawks? lol
 

UtahUte

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I have a question I was reading an article on recruitment, and in the article, the writer mentioned
“ when the star system was put in place.” Does anyone know what year that was implemented?
 

TheLonestarDUCK

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Well, it clearly fucked your fans up or something. You STILL haven't learned how to win with any kind of class or grace. Not that anyone reasonably expected it.

Ducks won a close game and were very fortunate to come out with that win. At home. After a bye. Against a better team. Just accept it and move on. But you won't. Name calling and being a total douche to us is your fan bases calling card.
OMG Wizs-l400.jpg
 

Olyduck

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I have a question I was reading an article on recruitment, and in the article, the writer mentioned
“ when the star system was put in place.” Does anyone know what year that was implemented?
2000ish?
 

The Oldtimer

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Because admitting they were very lucky to win this game doesn't sit well with them. UW out performed them and lost a game they had setup to win. Even in victory all they can talk about is stuff from a decade ago. We get it, that 70-21 historic beating on their home turf rattled them in ways they won't get over anytime soon. Why wouldn't it? Worst beat down in the history of the series and put an exclamation on the end of their minor run.

Just let duck fans be duck fans. They aren't trainable.
Okay fair enough, but nevertheless the Ducks beat the Huskies and for the moments they are ahead of the Huskies in the polls.
 

WizardHawk

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Okay fair enough, but nevertheless the Ducks beat the Huskies and for the moments they are ahead of the Huskies in the polls.
Not sure I follow, but yeah? :noidea:

If you mean by that you are countering which team is actually 'better' then I'd just laugh. Polls list who deserves a spot, not which are the best teams in exact order. There is no such system that does.
 

wazzu31

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Well Vegas doesn’t seem to be buying into Oregon. We started off at minus 2 and now it’s a pick em. You’d figure if they were “for real” they’d at least be a 3 point favorite.
 

UtahUte

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His article really sucked. he really didn't bring out anything I wanted to know. stuff like why kids were getting the star ratings also. And why it was put in place. i have a lot of questions. I guess I could search more about it but I thinking there might be someone here who could enlighten me more about the star rating. if it was 2000 ish I really cant rely on it at all. its all a matter of opinion to me really.
 

AlaskaGuy

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WashingtonState_flags_twitter_1.jpg
 

WizardHawk

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Games/TV/Lines
Screenshot (18).png
Thursday (lulz)
Ferd -2.5 56.5 O/U
Saturday
UW -15.5 51.5
Cal -7 58.5
WSU -3 66.5
Utah -6.5 48.5
UCLA -7 55.5

The ducks/WSU line is about as volatile as I've seen this year in a Pac12 Tue list of movements. You can still currently find bets between a pickem, -1 WSU, -2 WSU and at most -3 WSU, but that's what is listed on the big consensus boards so it's a heavy lean. Expect a lot more movement before Thursday.

lol@ 1-4 UCLA being TD favs over 3-4 zona.
 

socaljim242

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Pretty much mostly agree. He's 2.5 seasons in (without the interim label), so imo, it's a little too early for his job to be on the line, but it's also time for him to show that he can make the tough decisions that a coach has to make to get to the level that we are used to being at.

The problem is, imo, that we have a solid chance at winning the PAC South and getting 10 wins again. It's hard to fire a coach who keeps getting 10 wins and winning their division.

For Tee, you and I disagree a bit, I think part of the problem is him learning on the job and having "green qb's" 2 of his 3 years (Darnold as a redshirt freshman and Daniels as a true freshman) playing behind an inconsistent at best o-line. I wouldn't mind giving him one more season to see what happens with JT, but I wouldn't exactly be heartbroken if Tee was let go and he brought in someone better/more experienced.

Regardless of how they finish the season, I think he's going to have to shake up the coaching staff a bit and that at the very least, Callaway has to go.

I wonder what the chances are of him stealing Ruel away from Pete and the Seahawks? lol

The problem as I see it is that OC is a job that needs to be innovative with fresh ideas but coming from experience. USC is not Iowa State or Memphis were you might expect them to hire someone new. USC is supposed to be a blue blood a powerhouse that has four highly rated classes on it roster. It's like a five star restaurant hiring a head chef whos never been a chef before .
All but maybe five schools in the country have this amount of talent especially on the offensive side. They have what would have been the #1 QB coming out of HS this year. They have some of the highest rated WRs in the country. Not just good. They are ones that Bama and Ohio State and Michigan would take. And the offense we have gotten for two seasons now is vanilla , discombobulated out of sync with no identity. I actually saw receivers running into each other at the Colorado game. And this is after a bye.
Callaway should have been fired after the Texas game. If you hire your dads good friend he needs to be better than most O line coaches. Remember he hired his brother as QB coach and thankfully someone took him off our hands. Something needs to happen with the play calling for next season. You can't have a five star restaurant getting all the best ingredients and serve us an over cooked steak with a plain baked potato and charge me an arm and a leg for it.
 
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