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Why Vance Is Getting Too Much Heat

SpiritOf77

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After the Super Bowl victory against Carolina ( not to mentions the odds ), we went into the next season - 2016 - with both Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak (and their SB rings) still on board ..

That season proved to be an enormous disappointment, and began the slide that continued through the 2017 and still rears its ugly head today, although things seem to be headed in the right direction in certain areas ..

Without over-explaining my point, here's a breakdown of the first two rounds of our drafts, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 .. In other words, THESE are the players that should be coming into their own - the prime of their career - and making an impact in this league ..

First Round 2013 - Sylvester Williams - no second contract
Second Round 2013 - Montee Ball - no explanation necessary

First Round 2014 - Bradley Roby - final year of rookie deal, it remains to be seen if he gets a second contract
Second Round 2014 - Cody Latimer - no second contract

First Round 2015 - Shane Ray - no second contract offered, a trade seems more likely that a second contract - he's been a disappointment
Second Round 2015 - Ty Sambrailo - see Montee Ball

First Round 2016 - Paxton Lynch - not only a first round bust, but Elway traded up to get him
Second Round 2016 - Adam Gotsis - Adam seems to be on the right track

As we can see here, this is not a group of drafts that will lead to building a contender ..

Which leads me to my point :

Vance Johnson has been handed a team that even SB winner Kubiak and Phillips couldn;t get back on track - and the subsequent drafts have not helped matters ...

Now, this should not vindicate Vance .. But the blame this man is taking is completely unfair ..

You want Kyle Shanahan ?? .. The guy who went into a shell and blew the Falcons ( only ) chance at a SB ?? .. The guy who, without Jimmy G, has done nothing and probably will get a Top 5 pick in 2019 ??

Elway basically admitted fault by retaining Vance .. and he was correct ..

Who is going to do better, esp considering those drafts 2013-2016 ??
 

fightinredantz

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First time head coaches have not had a lot of success this year. I think Frank Reich is my favorite of the new head coaches, and there are plenty of questions there.

Denver could easily be 3-0 or 0-3. This team doesn't quit which will be a trait that will serve them well. They also have a lack of game experience and some of that hurt in Baltimore. The penalties set their fate as much if not more then anything. If Denver didn't erase pretty much every big play in the game with a penalty they win. Heck if 2 penalties (the block in the back on the block FG return, and the long pass to DT) don't happen they probably win. As bad as that game looked I can find more positives in that game then many last year. If the penalties continue to be an issue then the season is doomed. Clean up the penalties and continue to improve and build the team chemistry, this team could be anyone in the NFL on any given Thursday, Sunday or Monday.
 

Rockinkuwait

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It's tough. I brought up a few years ago to my friends in Colorado that in order to keep winning they are going to have to re-sign or replace talent and they've not done either.

That said Vance Joseph doesn't move the needle for me at all. I mean he's coached some adequate and bad secondaries. As a coordinator he took over a perfectly average Dolphins D and helped them to be... perfectly average.

And Phillips did have them on track. 4th in points allowed his last season here. Then 22nd the year he left.
 

SpiritOf77

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On a somewhat related note, as someone who rarely - if ever - complains about the officiating - the refs blew this call on a game changing play ..

If this play happens, we go up 21-17 and Lindsay doesn;t get ejected

This is not on Vance

 

Duffman

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On a somewhat related note, as someone who rarely - if ever - complains about the officiating - the refs blew this call on a game changing play ..

If this play happens, we go up 21-17 and Lindsay doesn;t get ejected

This is not on Vance


But if you want to talk about the refs you have to mention that they should’ve flagged Simmons because he was too far off the line of scrimmage when he jumped the snap. The rules say you can be up to a yard and we was 2+ yards away so technically we wouldn’t have even had the block it would’ve been a 5 yard penalty and Baltimore would’ve had another chance to kick.

But yes we don’t lose Lindsay and we don’t know what kind of difference he would’ve made.
 

iknowftbll

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Yeah I’ve heard a lot about that call but it was one of the plays I didn’t see. That was an awful call.

Lot of things went wrong and I know we all want to avoid ref blaming. Our team didn’t look good and that was the main problem. It doesn’t help though when the refs decide every little thing is a penalty on us but let our opponents hold like it’s not even a rule anymore.
 

iknowftbll

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Let me add: I do think there is ebb and flow in call in a game or games. I thought it flowed the Raiders way significantly in week 2 but there have been games it went our way too. I know the refs are human and I believe they do try to get it right. Outside of holding I believe this. Regarding the holding penalty I am convinced the league has released a memo to crews to not let every game become the Von Miller show. It’s reached a point where holding calls on opponents against one of the best pass rushers ever is a significant distance below the mean. When you consider pass rushing defenses tend to incite more holding penalties on their opponents the Broncos being such an outlier is head scratching.
 

Duffman

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Let me add: I do think there is ebb and flow in call in a game or games. I thought it flowed the Raiders way significantly in week 2 but there have been games it went our way too. I know the refs are human and I believe they do try to get it right. Outside of holding I believe this. Regarding the holding penalty I am convinced the league has released a memo to crews to not let every game become the Von Miller show. It’s reached a point where holding calls on opponents against one of the best pass rushers ever is a significant distance below the mean. When you consider pass rushing defenses tend to incite more holding penalties on their opponents the Broncos being such an outlier is head scratching.


But the only thing that hurts your point is that Khalil Mack is still dominating so if the league didn’t want it to become the Von Miller show why would they be ok with it being the Khalil Mack show?
 

iknowftbll

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But the only thing that hurts your point is that Khalil Mack is still dominating so if the league didn’t want it to become the Von Miller show why would they be ok with it being the Khalil Mack show?

I guess this is why being facetious on a forum is always a bad idea. I don’t really think the NFL has released a memo. I do think it’s odd how few holding penalties Broncos opponents draw. Our defense gets held a lot. Because Von Miller and the defense have been so good I would be okay with this if the refs turned the same blind eye toward our offensive line. It certainly doesn’t seem to be the case.
 

nflbronco

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I have no faith in VJ or Woods until they prove it to me. Like any new HC they must prove they can get team to

1. Beat teams in division home/and away
2. Beat best teams in the league at home and away
3, win division
4. win playoff game
5. make AFC Championship game
6. win SB

I think VJ looks more comfy this season which is good. We'll see how rest of season pans out to evaluate.
 

fightinredantz

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But the only thing that hurts your point is that Khalil Mack is still dominating so if the league didn’t want it to become the Von Miller show why would they be ok with it being the Khalil Mack show?

Mack is tied with Miller for the lead in sacks. Also tied are Garrett and Jordan.
 

SpiritOf77

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I have no faith in VJ or Woods until they prove it to me. Like any new HC they must prove they can get team to

1. Beat teams in division home/and away
2. Beat best teams in the league at home and away
3, win division
4. win playoff game
5. make AFC Championship game
6. win SB

I think VJ looks more comfy this season which is good. We'll see how rest of season pans out to evaluate.


I agree with ya NFLB

I think the past drafts needs to be taken into consideration also - plus the fact that the team looked flat the year after the SB with Kubes and Wade still onboard ..

I see a definite overall improvement in a number of important areas, and that is encouraging ..

The next game will complete the first quarter of the season - and it is the biggest game of Vance's HC career
 

nflbronco

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I agree with ya NFLB

I think the past drafts needs to be taken into consideration also - plus the fact that the team looked flat the year after the SB with Kubes and Wade still onboard ..

I see a definite overall improvement in a number of important areas, and that is encouraging ..

The next game will complete the first quarter of the season - and it is the biggest game of Vance's HC career


Agree Lucas with your overall views on HC. I agree I have seen improvements in areas for sure. I'm excited to see mon how much this staff has grown in 9 months.
 

SpiritOf77

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Agree Lucas with your overall views on HC. I agree I have seen improvements in areas for sure. I'm excited to see mon how much this staff has grown in 9 months.

Totally unrelated, but I just bought the 2 disc blu ray version of Sleepaway Camp

And not only that, but I bought a Camp Arawak tshirt too !!

"Camp Arawak" Unisex T-Shirt by kaptainmyke | Redbubble

10003_1.jpg


TIS THE SEASON !!
 

58crash

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I have no faith in VJ or Woods until they prove it to me. Like any new HC they must prove they can get team to

1. Beat teams in division home/and away
2. Beat best teams in the league at home and away
3, win division
4. win playoff game
5. make AFC Championship game
6. win SB

I think VJ looks more comfy this season which is good. We'll see how rest of season pans out to evaluate.

If he can beat

1. Beat teams in division home/and aw

That is key to keeping a job if not he should be gone.
 

SpiritOf77

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A blowout on MNF in favor of KC and my support for Vance will go out the window
 

cdumler7

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But if you want to talk about the refs you have to mention that they should’ve flagged Simmons because he was too far off the line of scrimmage when he jumped the snap. The rules say you can be up to a yard and we was 2+ yards away so technically we wouldn’t have even had the block it would’ve been a 5 yard penalty and Baltimore would’ve had another chance to kick.

But yes we don’t lose Lindsay and we don’t know what kind of difference he would’ve made.

When the ball was snapped he was only a yard off the LOS. Look where his front foot is compared to wherethe ball is snapped. About a yard to a yard and a half off the LOS. I would say the block in the back penalty was a lot more egregious than this one.
 

CEH

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A blowout on MNF in favor of KC and my support for Vance will go out the window
Yes at home he has to have his team competitive. We know KC has more talent.
Nagy is the coach I would have liked here. The Andy Reid tree is dominating the NFL right now.
 

58crash

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Yes at home he has to have his team competitive. We know KC has more talent.
Nagy is the coach I would have liked here. The Andy Reid tree is dominating the NFL right now.


Yes and no their O as of this year yes Our D is a million times better .

The right coach will keep all games close with the D we still have.
 

58crash

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Also please save typing when talking our CB problems . Our Coach wanted the CB's he got .
 
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