Monday night game vs Bears

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

Why oh why are people just going on endlessly about Wilson as though somehow HE has to be the reason the offense is not sharp right now?

People, it's a new offense with a new OC/Play caller, new OL coach (BIG change here), new scheme/plays, new run blocking, and all that goes with it.

For the last two weeks we have heard excuses why they haven't ran the ball as much as they claim they NEED to in order to be effective. Your HC had some very weird bullshit about why Carson wasn't in the game at all in the second half last week. It appears they are about as disjointed as we have seen since going back to before Holmgren at the very least.

I mean they have issues in every single facet of that offense, yet Wilson is to blame and some are going to the level of he has to go. :burt:

Really?

Seems much more logical that PC and schotty need to get their shit together and at least both be on the same page. That seems like a good place to start. How about finding a way to know if your supposed #1 RB is actually 'gassed' or not? That might help. And it might help if their only real threat at WR was available.

BSUSeahawk · Sep 20, 2018

WizardHawk said:
Why oh why are people just going on endlessly about Wilson as though somehow HE has to be the reason the offense is not sharp right now?

People, it's a new offense with a new OC/Play caller, new OL coach (BIG change here), new scheme/plays, new run blocking, and all that goes with it.

For the last two weeks we have heard excuses why they haven't ran the ball as much as they claim they NEED to in order to be effective. Your HC had some very weird bullshit about why Carson wasn't in the game at all in the second half last week. It appears they are about as disjointed as we have seen since going back to before Holmgren at the very least.

I mean they have issues in every single facet of that offense, yet Wilson is to blame and some are going to the level of he has to go.

Really?

Seems much more logical that PC and schotty need to get their shit together and at least both be on the same page. That seems like a good place to start. How about finding a way to know if your supposed #1 RB is actually 'gassed' or not? That might help. And it might help if their only real threat at WR was available.

I have not seen one person say Wilson has to go. That is and would be an absurd statement.

It's just a discussion. The entire offense looks terrible, of course it's not all his fault. That being said, he IS the QB, so he carries more responsibility. OC, OL, WRs all share blame too.

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

BSUSeahawk said:
I have not seen one person say Wilson has to go. That is and would be an absurd statement.

It's just a discussion. The entire offense looks terrible, of course it's not all his fault. That being said, he IS the QB, so he carries more responsibility. OC, OL, WRs all share blame too.

This isn't the only site out there and if you look at Twitter, team sites, etc those voices are out there.

That said, isn't it WAY more logical to put blame on the difference of his play this season vs prior season at the feet of the coaches? He's never been a perfect QB by any stretch, but he's by FAR the best QB this franchise has ever had. He isn't carrying the team and looks bad at times. Why? That's the question. Why is this team looking so horrible on offense? Of the reasons I can cite, Wilson's own contribution is well down the list and even then his decline in play is directly attributed to the staff IMO.

Screamin12th · Sep 20, 2018

WizardHawk said:
People, it's a new offense with a new OC/Play caller, new OL coach (BIG change here), new scheme/plays, new run blocking, and all that goes with it.

For the last two weeks we have heard excuses why they haven't ran the ball as much as they claim they NEED to in order to be effective. Your HC had some very weird bullshit about why Carson wasn't in the game at all in the second half last week. It appears they are about as disjointed as we have seen since going back to before Holmgren at the very least.

I agree with your post but i felt like they had Penny and Prosise play a lot in the second half for a reason and that is because both those guys can go 60-70 yards for a TD. Carson is slower than those two and is not as shifty as either of them. Penny has not looked good but i think if he had a hole to get into the 3rd level he would have took it to the house. Guy is fast for his size. We all know what Prosise can do if he stays on the field and healthy.

Still there is going to be growing pains and i for some reason feel people look at it wrong and it has them confused. Yes on most teams a HC and offense go hand in hand but that has NEVER been the case here with Pete. This is a whole new scheme and design. The Oline went from playing zone to Man on man, Baldwin is MIA, Lockett and Marshall need to step up MORE than they have ( hard to do because they BOTH are in a new offense also ). It's akin to many teams getting a new HC as far as the shift on the offense. Pete has always been completely hands off on the offense.

BSUSeahawk · Sep 20, 2018

chf said:
Yep, he has short stretches where he gets a bit off his game.

If you just start at elite passer, nobody says boo to your post. It wasn't at all clear that you thought he was an elite passer.

But sure, I can agree. Russ's physical toolset allows him to try to make plays that other QB's wouldn't even dream of trying. Rodgers when healthy can move around pretty well too, and let me suggest that if Rodgers O-line ever played like Seattle's the last three years, he'd get into trouble trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit too.

Rodgers will hold the ball way too 'long,' in the pocket too. He did against the Vikes several times, because he trusted his O-line.

Mostly in agreement with you there. The biggest difference, at least in my mind, is that Rodgers (and others) have a great sense of how long they can hold onto the ball. And while Rodgers is mobile, he's not doing the blind pirouettes that sometimes go directly into the chest of Von Miller or Khalil Mack. He moves up and side to side within the pocket. Something I'd like to see Russell do a bit more of.

Look, obviously the Seahawks haven't had a good offensive line for a while. I'm not denying that at all. And when we've had those ridiculous moments where there's a LB on a delayed blitz who comes untouched through the line, that's 100% on the line. My complaint falls more on the plays where maybe the protection wasn't flawless, but the QB needs to do more to get the ball out.

BSUSeahawk · Sep 20, 2018

WizardHawk said:
This isn't the only site out there and if you look at Twitter, team sites, etc those voices are out there.

That said, isn't it WAY more logical to put blame on the difference of his play this season vs prior season at the feet of the coaches? He's never been a perfect QB by any stretch, but he's by FAR the best QB this franchise has ever had. He isn't carrying the team and looks bad at times. Why? That's the question. Why is this team looking so horrible on offense? Of the reasons I can cite, Wilson's own contribution is well down the list and even then his decline in play is directly attributed to the staff IMO.

It's always tough to divvy up blame between a coaching staff and players. There are a lot of factors there. It could be as simple as an adjustment period going from Bevell to BS. I can't speak to that obviously. As far as the play on the field goes, I feel like Wilson can and needs to do a lot more. I guess I would disagree on where his contribution to the offense's struggles lie. I feel like it's pretty high up the list, but frankly that has more to do with the position itself than anything.

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

Screamin12th said:
I agree with your post but i felt like they had Penny and Prosise play a lot in the second half for a reason and that is because both those guys can go 60-70 yards for a TD. Carson is slower than those two and is not as shifty as either of them. Penny has not looked good but i think if he had a hole to get into the 3rd level he would have took it to the house. Guy is fast for his size. We all know what Prosise can do if he stays on the field and healthy.

Did you see his response though? He said Carson was out because he thought he was gassed because he also thought he was still on the special teams unit and was overused there... only he wasn't. Seeing he was going to be the feature back they removed him from that role and he had like 1 or 2 plays on ST the whole night.

And then they ended up with how many running plays? It was WAY under what they wanted. I think it was 16? Can't remember, but not nearly what they keep claiming week after week they need to be competitive.

It's a huge fuster cluck right now.

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

BSUSeahawk said:
It's always tough to divvy up blame between a coaching staff and players. There are a lot of factors there. It could be as simple as an adjustment period going from Bevell to BS. I can't speak to that obviously. As far as the play on the field goes, I feel like Wilson can and needs to do a lot more. I guess I would disagree on where his contribution to the offense's struggles lie. I feel like it's pretty high up the list, but frankly that has more to do with the position itself than anything.

So it's more likely his struggles this year are due to his slipping in ability vs a brand new OC/Play caller, entirely new offensive scheme, new line coach and blocking scheme, and the coaching staffs ability to have their team ready to look competent at running those at this time? I mean that's what I'm saying so we might have to agree to disagree if that's your stance.

BSUSeahawk · Sep 20, 2018

WizardHawk said:
So it's more likely his struggles this year are due to his slipping in ability vs a brand new OC/Play caller, entirely new offensive scheme, new line coach and blocking scheme, and the coaching staffs ability to have their team ready to look competent at running those at this time? I mean that's what I'm saying so we might have to agree to disagree if that's your stance.

I would say both things are true. I think it's pretty obvious that at absolute best the OC-QB relationship is "developing". I thought Wilson's interaction with Carroll after that first timeout was called was fascinating. Needless to say, BS and Wilson still need to get on the same page.

But independent of all that, which I will definitely agree with you on, Wilson needs to play better. Running into sacks, fumbling the ball and a couple of really, really misguided throws are on him. I don't think it has to be one or the other.

Screamin12th · Sep 20, 2018

Wilson had a turd game, it's rare but i felt it was going to happen a few times this year in this totally new offense. I think this season might mirror his rookie season. We will find out in the next couple weeks thats for sure.

When you take out Wilsons TO's the offense started to really hum, Wilson killed it :/ happens to the best players every now and again. We have seen this happen with Brady and Rogers before, Wilson has shown this side before ( rarely ). Plus i think we all are sick and tired of waiting for 4-6 weeks for the offense to show up. Every damn year!

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

BSUSeahawk said:
I would say both things are true. I think it's pretty obvious that at absolute best the OC-QB relationship is "developing". I thought Wilson's interaction with Carroll after that first timeout was called was fascinating. Needless to say, BS and Wilson still need to get on the same page.

But independent of all that, which I will definitely agree with you on, Wilson needs to play better. Running into sacks, fumbling the ball and a couple of really, really misguided throws are on him. I don't think it has to be one or the other.

It isn't one or the other, but I'm saying one LEADS to the other. I don't think Carroll and schottenheimer are on the same page, more or less Wilson with them. And that HAS to happen before you can get a well oiled offense. It just has to.

Wilson hasn't been worth a piss and has been checking out of plays because he doesn't like what's being called. He's not on the same page at all. Again, PC has to lay the hammer and make that happen. That's his damned job.

I contend that if you get the staff on the same page and work out the kinks that Wilson can and should be more or less what we've come to expect from a QB. To me, that means the difference here is those details of having the staff be competent and on the same page first.

That is not a free pass for Wilson to be bad in any way.

chf · Sep 20, 2018

BSUSeahawk said:
But independent of all that, which I will definitely agree with you on, Wilson needs to play better. Running into sacks, fumbling the ball and a couple of really, really misguided throws are on him. I don't think it has to be one or the other.

Maybe you just need to take a couple of deep breaths and remind yourself that you think he's an elite passer.

chf · Sep 20, 2018

WizardHawk said:
That is not a free pass for Wilson to be bad in any way.

Even the idea that you feel the need to articulate this shows just how bloody spoiled we've become.

Maybe I should see if I can find some Gelbaugh hilites on youtube and start a thread or something.

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

chf said:
Even the idea that you feel the need to articulate this shows just how bloody spoiled we've become.

Maybe I should see if I can find some Gelbaugh hilites on youtube and start a thread or something.

Overreactions happen to most of us. I'd like to think I'm decent at taking a step back after the heat of the moment and pulling my own head out of my ass, but sometimes it seems others may need a bit of grease and a helping hand to remove their heads.

chf · Sep 20, 2018

WizardHawk said:
but sometimes it seems others may need a bit of grease and a helping hand to remove their heads.

Yesterday it was Trump's penis, today it's this.

<shudder>

WizardHawk · Sep 20, 2018

chf said:
Yesterday it was Trump's penis, today it's this.

<shudder>

BSUSeahawk · Sep 20, 2018

I can hold two thoughts at the same time. Yes, Russell has been a great thing for this organization. That doesn't mean there are aspects of his play that aren't worthy of criticism or discussion. Nor does it mean that I long for the days of watching Rick Mirer, Jon Kitna or John Friesz again.

chf · Sep 20, 2018

To be fair to you BSU, I'm probably guilty of associating you with other stuff I've read online, and in the national media re: Wilson. Whitlock (Whitless) the other day just about made me lose my mind.

BSUSeahawk · Sep 20, 2018

chf said:
To be fair to you BSU, I'm probably guilty of associating you with other stuff I've read online, and in the national media re: Wilson. Whitlock (Whitless) the other day just about made me lose my mind.

All good - you and I go way back. As a whole, I think Wilson is a very good QB. Message boards and mediums such as these can turn into a place to vent (at least for me), so my thoughts on him probably appear to be more negative than they truly are. I get it - we're lucky to have one of the better QBs in the game. Just saw a few things over the first couple weeks that I thought were worthy of discussion.

We can all agree that the offense is way off right now. How much of that is pinned on Russell vs. Schotty vs. the OL, etc. is a tricky discussion.

Anointed One · Sep 20, 2018

BSUSeahawk said:
I can hold two thoughts at the same time. Yes, Russell has been a great thing for this organization. That doesn't mean there are aspects of his play that aren't worthy of criticism or discussion. Nor does it mean that I long for the days of watching Rick Mirer, Jon Kitna or John Friesz again.

One thing you’ll learn about this forum is you cannot say anything bad about Russell Wilson here. And to say Russell is not at fault along with the entire offense is crazy. He definitely has his flaws and is definitely some of the reasons we struggle at times the way we do. But he’s also the reason why we come back in games.

Elite QBs Make their offense their offensive lines better than they actually are.

I have been tracking your conversation and don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. Seems like your conversation had gotten twisted and then unfairly summarized.

Monday night game vs Bears

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