Monday night game vs Bears

seahawksfan234 said:

Ifedi's nightmare is going to continue if they keep him out there.

He'll be matched up with Demarcus Lawrence next. He has 12.5 sacks in his last 9 games.

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School is in session for Ifedi, let’s hope he learns from it all...

Lots of discussion about the sacks. Are some on Russell? Sure. I can't remember which play it was where it looked like he held onto it too long, but the replay showed a complete route screwup between Marshall & Lockett (ended up pretty much at the same spot). But we can overcome a few sacks in the first half of a close game. After these last 2 seasons, I cannot imagine how Russell could have much faith at all in his blocking. And now we have fired the "bad" OC that purportedly cost us a SB win, and we've replaced him with a guy who says he's committed to running but hasn't really been doing it these first couple games. My main ding on Russell last night was the pick. He should have seen that CB jump the route, and I question why he was looking first at Penny anyway.

JMR said:

Lots of discussion about the sacks. Are some on Russell? Sure. I can't remember which play it was where it looked like he held onto it too long, but the replay showed a complete route screwup between Marshall & Lockett (ended up pretty much at the same spot). But we can overcome a few sacks in the first half of a close game. After these last 2 seasons, I cannot imagine how Russell could have much faith at all in his blocking. And now we have fired the "bad" OC that purportedly cost us a SB win, and we've replaced him with a guy who says he's committed to running but hasn't really been doing it these first couple games. My main ding on Russell last night was the pick. He should have seen that CB jump the route, and I question why he was looking first at Penny anyway.

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I am not one to question playcalling because it is always a 20/20 endeavor but I kinda wonder why we didn't run on 2nd and 7 at all, IIRC. Looking at the PBP I only see one time where we ran the ball on 2nd and 6 or longer.

I honestly would have been ok with the first drive being 3 straight running plays and a punt. Not ideal but you establish your desire to run.

flyerhawk said:

I am not one to question playcalling because it is always a 20/20 endeavor but I kinda wonder why we didn't run on 2nd and 7 at all, IIRC. Looking at the PBP I only see one time where we ran the ball on 2nd and 6 or longer.

I honestly would have been ok with the first drive being 3 straight running plays and a punt. Not ideal but you establish your desire to run.

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Yeah, as you know I'm with you on the playcalling thing nearly 100%. So I don't question the exact play itself, but we chose not to run even 1 time on our first 2 possessions of the 2nd half, and that was with nothing working up to that point in the air. Not even 1 run in 2 possessions? Unexplainable.

I wouldn't mind in this next game if we ran it every single time on our first possession until we either score or punt.

MrSnuggles2k2 said:

i dont know, the new guy at least is able to call plays in the redzone.

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The new guy called an empty back set hitch route to a RB against Prince Amakamara. That was one of the worst play calls I've seen for the Seahawks since Carroll came to Seattle.

Sure, blame Russ for throwing that ball, but there wasn't going to be a good outcome even if he completed it. It was a HORRIBLE call.

Bevelll did a much better job of working Wilson out of rushes and blitzes, even if that was always a problem.

All we said the last few years is take Bevell out of the offense if you like, but that's not going to fix that offense. In fact, it is worse now than ever. It is worse than Wilson's rookie season. It is worse than it was prior to Wilson coming here which means they are entirely wasting what talent he brings. The line is bad. The RB's are meh. Without Baldwin they don't have much of a receiving corp. And their play calling is actually worse. Sure, Wilson is not playing well either which adds to it. He's not the kind of QB that can pick up entire shit teams and elevate them like maybe Rogers can or those types of QB's. He's feeling footsteps and playing out of fear which he sucks at right now. That's partially on him, and partially an indictment at how little he trusts that pile of shit line.

You got your wish bro and now this offense is actually worse. Congrats.

WizardHawk said:

The new guy called an empty back set hitch route to a RB against Prince Amakamara. That was one of the worst play calls I've seen for the Seahawks since Carroll came to Seattle.

Sure, blame Russ for throwing that ball, but there wasn't going to be a good outcome even if he completed it. It was a HORRIBLE call.

Bevelll did a much better job of working Wilson out of rushes and blitzes, even if that was always a problem.

All we said the last few years is take Bevell out of the offense if you like, but that's not going to fix that offense. In fact, it is worse now than ever. It is worse than Wilson's rookie season. It is worse than it was prior to Wilson coming here which means they are entirely wasting what talent he brings. The line is bad. The RB's are meh. Without Baldwin they don't have much of a receiving corp. And their play calling is actually worse. Sure, Wilson is not playing well either which adds to it. He's not the kind of QB that can pick up entire shit teams and elevate them like maybe Rogers can or those types of QB's. He's feeling footsteps and playing out of fear which he sucks at right now. That's partially on him, and partially an indictment at how little he trusts that pile of shit line.

You got your wish bro and now this offense is actually worse. Congrats.

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I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded - the problem is he wants to be (and is going to be) paid like that type of QB.

It creates an interesting dilemma for PCJS, that's for sure.

BSUSeahawk said:

I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded - the problem is he wants to be (and is going to be) paid like that type of QB.

It creates an interesting dilemma for PCJS, that's for sure.

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I don't think it creates any dilemma. You pay him because he's still one of the top QBs in the league.

We seem to have this debate every September and forget it happened in December.

flyerhawk said:

I don't think it creates any dilemma. You pay him because he's still one of the top QBs in the league.

We seem to have this debate every September and forget it happened in December.

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And if you don't pay Russell, then we're going to turn right around and try to find someone (and probably fail) who can play as good as he did and try to pay them peanuts? No winning franchises do that.

blstoker said:

On another note, I still think the Robinson forward progress fumble was crap, but I'm sure Bears fans wouldn't agree.

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The problem with that play was that the ball came loose and THEN the refs blew the whistle to indicate forward progress had been stopped. If they blow the whistle and then the ball comes out it's a different story. It did look like forward progress may have been stopped. Blowing it dead after the fumble is just bad officiating.

JMR said:

And if you don't pay Russell, then we're going to turn right around and try to find someone (and probably fail) who can play as good as he did and try to pay them peanuts? No winning franchises do that.

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Exactly. You don't dump a franchise QB because he wants too much money.

flyerhawk said:

I don't think it creates any dilemma. You pay him because he's still one of the top QBs in the league.

We seem to have this debate every September and forget it happened in December.

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Sure, but then we become the Ravens. Perennially decent, never great. I guess that's fine, but he's not the kind of QB that can take up whatever percentage of the cap the top guys are getting and still carry a roster. Unless PCJS get back to hitting at an absurd rate in the draft.

BSUSeahawk said:

Sure, but then we become the Ravens. Perennially decent, never great. I guess that's fine, but he's not the kind of QB that can take up whatever percentage of the cap the top guys are getting and still carry a roster. Unless PCJS get back to hitting at an absurd rate in the draft.

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Joe Flacco was never a particularly good QB. He had one hot streak and he won a Super Bowl.

To compare that to Russell Wilson is just ridiculous and clearly evidence of being a prisoner of the moment.

What exactly has Aaron Rodgers achieved above and beyond Wilson? Rodgers is the best QB in football but he's just as dependent on his team not sucking as every other QB.

flyerhawk said:

Joe Flacco was never a particularly good QB. He had one hot streak and he won a Super Bowl.

To compare that to Russell Wilson is just ridiculous and clearly evidence of being a prisoner of the moment.

What exactly has Aaron Rodgers achieved above and beyond Wilson? Rodgers is the best QB in football but he's just as dependent on his team not sucking as every other QB.

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I wasn't comparing Flacco and Wilson specifically. I was more comparing the situation of tying up such a large part of your cap in a QB that is outside the top tier.

This is just a personal opinion of mine, but if you don't have an elite QB, paying them as such just puts you in no man's land unless you hit on your draft picks (i.e. cheap players) at an outstanding rate. We've already seen this with Matt Stafford and Flacco. And I strongly suspect we'll see it with Matt Ryan, Jimmy G and Derek Carr.

I'm actually curious if the mindset around paying QBs is going to change somewhat going forward based on what teams (SB Seahawks, Rams, Jags, Eagles, etc.) have been able to do with either cheap QBs or young QBs in combination with a supremely talented roster. The Rams were able to go out and get an elite WR, elite DT, pay their superstar DE and RB because their paying Goff peanuts (relatively speaking). The numbers look good for Goff, but no one in their right mind would think that losing premium talent to pay Goff $20M a year makes any sense at all.

Admittedly, I've never been as big of a fan of Wilson as most. I don't think he's a top 5 QB, or a guy that can carry a bad team like a Rodgers, Brady or Brees. I also couldn't disagree with your last question any more. Rodgers dealt with a crap defense and run game for years, but still has the Packers in the mix every year, because he's one of the greatest QBs of all time. Their team accomplishments are similar, I guess, if you factor in that most of Wilson's team success came when he was making pennies and we were able to stack the team around him through great drafting and free agent signings.

BSUSeahawk said:

I wasn't comparing Flacco and Wilson specifically. I was more comparing the situation of tying up such a large part of your cap in a QB that is outside the top tier.

This is just a personal opinion of mine, but if you don't have an elite QB, paying them as such just puts you in no man's land unless you hit on your draft picks (i.e. cheap players) at an outstanding rate. We've already seen this with Matt Stafford and Flacco. And I strongly suspect we'll see it with Matt Ryan, Jimmy G and Derek Carr.

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Maybe. Matt Ryan was a couple play calls away from winning a Super Bowl and we nearly in at least one more. Derek Carr was probably given his contract before he really deserved it.

I doubt that the Lions would do anything different with Stafford in retrospect.

I'm actually curious if the mindset around paying QBs is going to change somewhat going forward based on what teams (SB Seahawks, Rams, Jags, Eagles, etc.) have been able to do with either cheap QBs or young QBs in combination with a supremely talented roster. The Rams were able to go out and get an elite WR, elite DT, pay their superstar DE and RB because their paying Goff peanuts (relatively speaking). The numbers look good for Goff, but no one in their right mind would think that losing premium talent to pay Goff $20M a year makes any sense at all.

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The Jags were absolutely ATROCIOUS for YEARS! Drafting in the top 5 every year gives you a great chance at building your talent up. The Rams and Eagles drafted their guys #1 and #2 respectively overall in their draft. Yes, it's great when you can draft a stud QB and keep him cost controlled for 5 years. Of course that requires being terrible or hitting the draft lottery ala Russell Wilson.

Admittedly, I've never been as big of a fan of Wilson as most. I don't think he's a top 5 QB, or a guy that can carry a bad team like a Rodgers, Brady or Brees. I also couldn't disagree with your last question any more. Rodgers dealt with a crap defense and run game for years, but still has the Packers in the mix every year, because he's one of the greatest QBs of all time. Their team accomplishments are similar, I guess, if you factor in that most of Wilson's team success came when he was making pennies and we were able to stack the team around him through great drafting and free agent signings.

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First off I'm not equating Wilson to Aaron Rodgers. I'd also argue that if you look at the situation so that only Rodgers is worth a huge contract, then you have a wildly unrealistic view of how the NFL works.

Seems like you just want to dismiss what Wilson has done. To each their own I guess.

Give Wilson a top flight O line and he EASILY has seasons as good as Brees and Rodgers. For crissakes he threw for 4000 and led the NFL in TD's with last year's O line.

One thing bothered me after the game about Russell. He said that on the INT the CB made a great play ... WTF he sat down he was never going to turn and run. He was sat down waiting on that throw and nothing in his body language showed he was going to do anything BUT break on it. No he didn't make a great play Russell you made a bad read that even a AVERAGE QB doesn't make.

When i saw that live i was thinking he was going to pull it down, no way was he going to throw that ... he threw it and even before it was picked off i spiked the cat. ( ok not really ) the CB wasn't even MOVING ! How could he not see that? how could he even think about throwing it? lmao

JMR said:

And if you don't pay Russell, then we're going to turn right around and try to find someone (and probably fail) who can play as good as he did and try to pay them peanuts? No winning franchises do that.

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Remember the early 90's when we tried to find a replacement for Dave Krieg? I do... You don't let a franchise QB still in his prime...

... Leave because were unwilling to sign him

Screamin12th said:

One thing bothered me after the game about Russell. He said that on the INT the CB made a great play ... WTF he sat down he was never going to turn and run. He was sat down waiting on that throw and nothing in his body language showed he was going to do anything BUT break on it. No he didn't make a great play Russell you made a bad read that even a AVERAGE QB doesn't make.

When i saw that live i was thinking he was going to pull it down, no way was he going to throw that ... he threw it and even before it was picked off i spiked the cat. ( ok not really ) the CB wasn't even MOVING ! How could he not see that? how could he even think about throwing it? lmao

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He stared him down the whole way too, which is uncharacteristic.

beardown07 said:

He stared him down the whole way too, which is uncharacteristic.

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If you watch his eyes i swear they are on the CB then he shifts them to Penny and lets the ball fly. It was like WTF did you see! They had a good replay showing where Russ was looking and he moves his eyes over to penny at the last second before he threw the ball but he didn't move his eyes much so he HAD to be looking at Prince!

lol if you were going to script a play for a movie thats how it would look. ok he is in position for the pick now it's time to throw it.