Is it Collusion conspiracy theory time again?

[PolarVortex]

I'm beginning to wonder if that controversial word will surface again soon. By now every team has started spring training with pitchers and catchers. Still so many unsigned big names out there.

IMO, these guys are still unsigned because:
1. Owners can not stomach their agent's contract $$ demands.
2. Owners are just throwing up their hands because they know whatever $$s they offer, the Dodgers will go higher.
3. Owners are hesitant to spend because of all the uncertainty revolving around TV contract revenue.
4. Scott Boris' strategic tactics are worse than ever this year.

There have only been a couple other seasons when high-value vets were still available this late in the off-season and both times, MLBPA and MSM were screaming collusion.

 

[PolarVortex]

Jordan Montgomery and Cody Bellinger are prime examples

Prior to August of last year, Montgomery, IMO, had had a career that was much more impressive than Marco Gonzalez. Then he gets traded to Texas, pulls a Doyle Alexander in the last two months and post season, and now he is supposed to be a $150 million pitcher?

Cody Bellinger is ineffective and/or injured for three years, then has one season where he comes about 3/4ths of the way back to the MVP form he had four years ago and now he wants $200 million?

If I was an owner, I'd have a problem with these contract demands too.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm beginning to wonder if that controversial word will surface again soon. By now every team has started spring training with pitchers and catchers. Still so many unsigned big names out there.

IMO, these guys are still unsigned because:
1. Owners can not stomach their agent's contract $$ demands.
2. Owners are just throwing up their hands because they know whatever $$s they offer, the Dodgers will go higher.
3. Owners are hesitant to spend because of all the uncertainty revolving around TV contract revenue.
4. Scott Boris' strategic tactics are worse than ever this year.

There have only been a couple other seasons when high-value vets were still available this late in the off-season and both times, MLBPA and MSM were screaming collusion.

Think this may finally be the year the owners tell Boras to pound sand. I don’t think it’s technically collusion or anything bad to specifically say I’m not talking to one agency.

So I’d say 1 and 4 for sure and a little bit of 3. But most of the team with tv issues weren’t going to be in on Bellinger. Montgomery maybe but not if he wants front end money.

 

[NWinAZ]

I heard Manfred was pushing for a signing deadline and Boras attacked it as another nail in the coffin of free agency. That makes sense to what you are asking.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm beginning to wonder if that controversial word will surface again soon. By now every team has started spring training with pitchers and catchers. Still so many unsigned big names out there.

IMO, these guys are still unsigned because:
1. Owners can not stomach their agent's contract $$ demands.
2. Owners are just throwing up their hands because they know whatever $$s they offer, the Dodgers will go higher.
3. Owners are hesitant to spend because of all the uncertainty revolving around TV contract revenue.
4. Scott Boris' strategic tactics are worse than ever this year.

There have only been a couple other seasons when high-value vets were still available this late in the off-season and both times, MLBPA and MSM were screaming collusion.

I'm more in the line of owners not only can't stomach these demands but 2/3s are mid to small market teams. The other 1/3 big market teams already have a high payroll with their own players plus an addition or 2 already added on. A lot of these guys are going to have to come down on their demands.

 

[ulmax]

Rangers.and Astros are already..
At 230mil..
So basicly they can.do nothing..Oakland
No one expects.to..

Angels want Snell..
I would say San Diego as well...

Seattle fans want Snell .owners do not.
Or bellinger or Montgomery...
Seattle could use one more pitcher..from.
A roster stand point.

 

[ulmax]

Seattle Owners want Seattle to be a small.
Market .it's not its top ten..and they can't.
Handle..it .
Or the pr..load..
Basicly .they. Are blundering it ..
And Jedi had to save them...
And the.team..

From a worse black eye than they already..
Got..

 

[wazzu31]

I heard Manfred was pushing for a signing deadline and Boras attacked it as another nail in the coffin of free agency. That makes sense to what you are asking.

I don’t care for Manfred but I think there needs to be something like a deadline. This entire offseason has proven that the players and owners have some serious things to work out. Can’t have Snell and Bellinger not signed by spring training, have Ohtani and basically the Dodgers screw the MLBPA and have all of these guys who have never played make the most money on the market. Yamamoto may end up being great but in no sane world should he be signed before Snell, let alone make more of an AAV than Snell for the first 5 years.

 

[ulmax]

As baltimore was begging..the mariners.
For miller or woo..(sodo mojo)..
Why don't they sign Snell ..??..

There is no..more of a pitcher needy team.than that.
And san Diego could use belinger

 

[ulmax]

San Diego still only has 2 outfields on.
There 40.man..
Why..???..it's spring..training.!!!!!!!!

 

[ulmax]

See..mariners owners..are not..the only..

Sloughers...Baltimore's.are also.masive.

Slougher..s.

But I think they are new owners..

 

[ulmax]

The reason there not signed.is cuz..
The owners can't keep.there.hands off.
Team money..
And team money..should be 230 mil..
For all.teams...
But owners slip..it into there own.pockets...

Most of them anyway..

 

[ulmax]

In this case the players and Boris should.
Be in the fans camp..

And owners stand .alone..with bad pr..

 

[seattlefan75]

Yeah this is all pretty wild and this is actually a secret war going on between players and owners and usually the root of every conflict is money. Maybe if there was some kind of veteran free agent arbitration where the league can determine based on numbers, performance more or less the market value of a player but then again how do you handle these overseas players that teams are bidding on.

I also think it is funny how owners act like they do not have money but sign a Japanese player that has never played MLB ball to a 300+ million contract.

 

[wazzu31]

Yeah this is all pretty wild and this is actually a secret war going on between players and owners and usually the root of every conflict is money. Maybe if there was some kind of veteran free agent arbitration where the league can determine based on numbers, performance more or less the market value of a player but then again how do you handle these overseas players that teams are bidding on.

I also think it is funny how owners act like they do not have money but sign a Japanese player that has never played MLB ball to a 300+ million contract.

I think that was the idea that Manfred tossed out. You can only make max money if you sign before the deadline. No idea how that could work without a salary cap and I don’t think we are there yet. Though the crap the Dodgers pulled I’m guessing is nudging the union into discussing it.

 

[seattlefan75]

I think that was the idea that Manfred tossed out. You can only make max money if you sign before the deadline. No idea how that could work without a salary cap and I don’t think we are there yet. Though the crap the Dodgers pulled I’m guessing is nudging the union into discussing it.

Also another thing to add which is a problem with owners is that there is a huge disparity with money. It really is the same 4-6 teams that are spending money while other teams are looking for the economic way to build their team (our team especially). If those 4-6 teams are not interested in Cody Bellinger for example then you are screwed if your thinking a team like the Twins, Guardians, Brewers or Pirates are giving you 200 million.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Jordan Montgomery and Cody Bellinger are prime examples

Prior to August of last year, Montgomery, IMO, had had a career that was much more impressive than Marco Gonzalez. Then he gets traded to Texas, pulls a Doyle Alexander in the last two months and post season, and now he is supposed to be a $150 million pitcher?

Cody Bellinger is ineffective and/or injured for three years, then has one season where he comes about 3/4ths of the way back to the MVP form he had four years ago and now he wants $200 million?

If I was an owner, I'd have. a problem with these contract demands too.

Bellinger wanting 200 million is absurd. And no sane team would give him that. his demand is ridiculous on every level

snell...his demands are a lot more reasonable for his production and its more a sticking point on the years

Montgomery has won 38 games in his entire career and is 31. 38 games. I'm giving this guy 200 mil? fuck no I'm not.

Rick Porcello had over 31 wins by 22. I get wins are a meh stat anymore but the dude doesn't have a tank.

This is the MLBPAs fault. For not addressing contract length. 7 years for any of these guys is foolish at best.

 

[PolarVortex]

Bellinger wanting 200 million is absurd. And no sane team would give him that. his demand is ridiculous on every level

You wouldn't. I wouldn't. But every year there are FAs whose contract demands seem insane and then some teams meets them anyway.

snell...his demands are a lot more reasonable for his production and its more a sticking point on the years

Yankees seem to be the only team nibbling on Snell and they are gun shy after getting ripped off by Carlos Rodon. Snell has only had two seasons in which he didn't miss starts due to injury.

Montgomery has won 38 games in his entire career and is 31. 38 games. I'm giving this guy 200 mil? fuck no I'm not.

Montgomery should fire Boras. The guy should know that he is no $150 million pitcher but Boras has him convinced otherwise.

Rick Porcello had over 31 wins by 22. I get wins are a meh stat anymore but the dude doesn't have a tank.

This is the MLBPAs fault. For not addressing contract length. 7 years for any of these guys is foolish at best.

 

[wazzu31]

Also another thing to add which is a problem with owners is that there is a huge disparity with money. It really is the same 4-6 teams that are spending money while other teams are looking for the economic way to build their team (our team especially). If those 4-6 teams are not interested in Cody Bellinger for example then you are screwed if your thinking a team like the Twins, Guardians, Brewers or Pirates are giving you 200 million.

That is the problem with what the Dodgers exploiting the loophole in the CBT as well as not enforcing the intent of the CBT. The MLBPA has been asleep at the wheel with enforcing the CBA. They’ve let it slide because their guys were getting paid at free agency.

Granted I don’t think the players are worth that much money but that is deal with the devil the players set up by suppressing the wages of the guys under “team control”.

Just really hoping for not them to hammer this out so their isn’t another strike/lockout

 

[wazzu31]

Bellinger wanting 200 million is absurd. And no sane team would give him that. his demand is ridiculous on every level

snell...his demands are a lot more reasonable for his production and its more a sticking point on the years

Montgomery has won 38 games in his entire career and is 31. 38 games. I'm giving this guy 200 mil? fuck no I'm not.

Rick Porcello had over 31 wins by 22. I get wins are a meh stat anymore but the dude doesn't have a tank.

This is the MLBPAs fault. For not addressing contract length. 7 years for any of these guys is foolish at best.

How are those demands any different than Yamamoto. He hasn’t thrown a pitch in the MLB and isn’t even the most valued pitcher in the NPB, if Yamamoto is worth that much then Roki Sasaki is going to get $500 million.