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The First 2018 College Football Playoff

Deep Creek

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look, I bought into the BS of autobids at first too. Maybe 4D20 remembers back that far. I thought it through and found it was entirely stupid and horrible.

Just logic it out. You can't not come to the same conclusion.
I ain't for auto bids either. This year is an example of what might happen if an upset happens in some of the CCGs. (I might be willing to consider them if we didn't have divisions and/or CCGs...but I digress.)

But, I am for improving OOC schedules and I don't see that happening by maintaining the status quo either. We need a lot more GOOD OOC games than what we are getting now IMHO.
 

WizardHawk

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I ain't for auto bids either. This year is an example of what might happen if an upset happens in some of the CCGs. (I might be willing to consider them if we didn't have divisions and/or CCGs...but I digress.)

But, I am for improving OOC schedules and I don't see that happening by maintaining the status quo either. We need a lot more GOOD OOC games than what we are getting now IMHO.
Oh there are plenty of things I don't like about the game today and lots of areas that need tweaking or improving.

There are a few fans of G5 programs that seem to latch onto auto bids, but I would think most would hate the idea. The very best chance, albeit admittedly slim, a G5 has of making it into the playoffs is chaos at the top. When you use auto bids you put even crappy conf champs in ahead of them. You have to go to at least 8 to get one in and even then, you almost have to create a rule to force one in like 5+1 and 2 WC which really is pie in the sky.

I wish there was an easy fix to the bad and trending worse OOC slates, but there really isn't. More and more teams are adding FCS and going worse with at least one of their P5 games. It reduces the injury factor and gives them games to evaluate younger talent as well as just work on fundamentals on a smaller playbook to tighten things up before bigger games. It works for the teams, but sucks for the fans. And we don't get a vote in this thing.

Auto bids, or any other type of playoff expansion/revamp won't change that. It would take the committee downgrading teams for playing FCS, conferences to set rules to break it, or some larger agreement at the NCAA level. Just not sure any of that is possible, more or less likely.
 

Deep Creek

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I barely remember last week. :D

It's not a real surprise people are attracted to it really, it sounds sexy on the surface.
I think people are attracted to it because of "conditioning" or "norms". Major college football has always decided its champion differently and counter to what is "the norm" for other sports. Throughout high school sports, other college sports and pro sports, if a team wins its district, conference, league, etc, (no matter how good or bad that district, conference, league etc is) they are provided a spot in a playoff. (Unfortunately, so are many 2nd, 3rd and 4th place teams as well.) CFB is the exception. I can't think of another one but there may be one out there.

Kind of 180 degrees opposite of why others that like the uniqueness of CFB are opposed to giving a spot to a team based solely on the basis that they won their conference. Those don't want to follow the norm and enjoy the uniqueness of deciding their playoff participants in a different manner.
 

WizardHawk

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I think people are attracted to it because of "conditioning" or "norms". Major college football has always decided its champion differently and counter to what is "the norm" for other sports. Throughout high school sports, other college sports and pro sports, if a team wins its district, conference, league, etc, (no matter how good or bad that district, conference, league etc is) they are provided a spot in a playoff. (Unfortunately, so are many 2nd, 3rd and 4th place teams as well.) CFB is the exception. I can't think of another one but there may be one out there.

Kind of 180 degrees opposite of why others that like the uniqueness of CFB are opposed to giving a spot to a team based solely on the basis that they won their conference. Those don't want to follow the norm and enjoy the uniqueness of deciding their playoff participants in a different manner.
That's a big part of it for sure. There are always arguments that try to compare things to either FCS/DII or the NFL. Yet when you bring up the serious problems of schedule imbalance and how really really bad win/loss only is on that, you get some sort of answer that simply skips past it and says conf champs have to mean something. There is no answer at all to it.

I continually ask and really never get an answer from any of them about that. IMO that is the main reason we won't ever see the system they so desperately want.

We could invent a way to make it work, but it would require entirely blowing up ALL of the conferences outside of the B12 and go back to 10 team conferences, or 20 team mega conferences with no crossover games until their championship. You cannot AT ALL even think about auto bids without entirely equalizing the schedules of ALL of the conferences playing in it, even G5 if they are included in any type of auto thing.

For whatever reason, the desire to treat FBS football like everyone else when they are so vastly different overrides their ability to reason the thing out and see why it is this way to begin with.
 

Deep Creek

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You cannot AT ALL even think about auto bids without entirely equalizing the schedules of ALL of the conferences playing in it
This is the sticking point. The vast majority of those other examples I cited, don't have equalized strengths of all districts, conferences and leagues either...much less schedules. Even without that balance, playoffs for those proceed onward...in spite of the fact there are a bunch of participants that aren't worth a damn and don't really belong.

Hell, there are a few high school districts in Texas that may well have the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best teams in the state in the same district. And in a district a few miles away, none of the 8 teams could even make the playoffs if they were in that other district. People are used to that...and still that the best teams from that crummy 8 team district deserve a spot. It is years and years of conditioning for such.
 

WizardHawk

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This is the sticking point. The vast majority of those other examples I cited, don't have equalized strengths of all districts, conferences and leagues either...much less schedules. Even without that balance, playoffs for those proceed onward...in spite of the fact there are a bunch of participants that aren't worth a damn and don't really belong.

Hell, there are a few high school districts in Texas that may well have the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best teams in the state in the same district. And in a district a few miles away, none of the 8 teams could even make the playoffs if they were in that other district. People are used to that...and still that the best teams from that crummy 8 team district deserve a spot. It is years and years of conditioning for such.
That is why some propose either 32 or 64 game playoffs for FBS as well. You don't have to normalize when you go that far out. Most good teams will be in anyway and it works itself out. So their argument goes.

True that high school leagues have smaller playoffs, but at least up here, they all play each other every year. It doesn't matter if there is balance between the smaller leagues, only that there is balance within them. You can't have teams that skip the tougher teams while others play them and draw a champion from that pool. In our state that isn't an issue at the high school level.

How many SEC teams go nearly a decade without playing each other? They only play 8 games and have 13 other teams to play. The math is just bad on that. The Pac plays 9 and has 11 which seems closer on the surface, but their rotation has teams from one division missing two from the other in two year (h/h) chunks that end up with teams from one division entirely getting screwed while their counterparts get off easy. For example, this year USC did not have to play UW or Oregon. Utah and the others battling for that south title did. Utah missed Cal and Oregon State. I mean how much more imbalanced can you get? It can't work on the scale clark wants and still have the same conference structures.
 

WizardHawk

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Really don't want to tie up the second week thread with more playoff change nonsense, so I'll move it here.

Do those wanting to see expansion to 6 teams, whether auto bids or committee, agree that it brings new areas for bitching over which team is 2nd or 3rd seed to get the bye week?

In clarky's new ideal format it would see the committee still needed for picking that wild card is also required to order the seeding and would be blamed for whichever team they wrongly put 3rd and force the first round game over second and a bye.

So in order to get rid of the outrage over USC being left out last year we move to a system that blows everything up as already discussed, comes to almost identical results anyway compared to what a 6 game committee would have done the last 4 years as it is, and still needs a committee to do almost all of the same work as it is and leaves new room for more bitching about who is left out at 7th as well as who gets the bye week.

Do any of the people wanting 6, auto bid or not, see these new issues and how little it really does to fix anything? Honest question (not meant for clark, he won't answer it).
 

Deep Creek

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Do those wanting to see expansion to 6 teams, whether auto bids or committee, agree that it brings new areas for bitching over which team is 2nd or 3rd seed to get the bye week?
Oh hell yes it would bring on new areas of bitching.
 

TheRobotDevil

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Hilarious SEC card stacking in this 2nd poll....."just a conspiracy though"
Hopefully other conferences will eventually catch wind and pull out of the ESPN SEC Invitational.
Logically it will never make sense. Why so many paople including the committee. Put so much emphasis on rankings and polls. Common sense dictates theres major flaws in human polls whether it be the AP, Coaches Poll or committee Their foundation is based in biases by design.


Could you imagine how boring the season would be if games were decided by Polls? I'm not sure I can count the amount of times I've heard I don't think theres any way "insert team" is beating "insert team".

ore emphasis on the field imo less debate and human influence
 

7Samurai13

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Logically it will never make sense. Why so many paople including the committee. Put so much emphasis on rankings and polls. Common sense dictates theres major flaws in human polls whether it be the AP, Coaches Poll or committee Their foundation is based in biases by design.


Could you imagine how boring the season would be if games were decided by Polls? I'm not sure I can count the amount of times I've heard I don't think theres any way "insert team" is beating "insert team".

ore emphasis on the field imo less debate and human influence
Every system has flaws. Even conference champs only has flaws. You have to pick and choose what system has the least amount of flaws in it.
 

TheRobotDevil

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Every system has flaws. Even conference champs only has flaws. You have to pick and choose what system has the least amount of flaws in it.
They system @Mistaken4193 proposed has by far the least flaws. Which is very clear when analyzing it. It completely removes all the glaring question marks over the past 4 years of the play offs. Reduces human influence significantly. While putting more emphasis on the games on the field.

Covers Conferencew champions with more than 2 losses with a fail safe. Even tho theres never been a CC with more than two losses since the play offs began.

Provides a much more solid regular season gauge

And raises the level of competition and meaning in both regular season and play off games
 

7Samurai13

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They system @Mistaken4193 proposed has by far the least flaws. Which is very clear when analyzing it. It completely removes all the glaring question marks over the past 4 years of the play offs. Reduces human influence significantly. While putting more emphasis on the games on the field.

Covers Conferencew champions with more than 2 losses with a fail safe. Even tho theres never been a CC with more than two losses since the play offs began.

Provides a much more solid regular season gauge

And raises the level of competition and meaning in both regular season and play off games
How does it raise the meaning of the regular season when 25-33% of the season is meaningless?
 

TheRobotDevil

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How does it raise the meaning of the regular season when 25-33% of the season is meaningless?
This goes back to the question marks over the current system.

If Ohio State plays Mercer instead of Iowa are they a 1 loss team?

More difficult opponent Wisconsin in the CCG or playing no one

Current system has to many holes,what ifs, opinions,roots in polls and decisions made off the field without any real criteria.

Even in Wiz's scenerio he has one clear flaw right off the bat.

Under the 6 game play off when you run the teams that would be in. Every question mark since the inception of the play offs is gone. And it improves the game as a whole
 

TheRobotDevil

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How does it raise the meaning of the regular season when 25-33% of the season is meaningless?
You're raising the bar and playing 10 P5 games in his system right off the bat......

You're putting the meaning back into CCG's

Raising the competition level in the play offs

Are you saying theres more meaning in playing 2 G5s and an FCS OOC while missing your CCG

than

playing 2 P5s OOC and 1 G5 while playing an extra P5 team in a CCG?

Theres no disputing it the 6 game system that was played out is a major upgrade in many facets
 

7Samurai13

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This goes back to the question marks over the current system.

If Ohio State plays Mercer instead of Iowa are they a 1 loss team?

More difficult opponent Wisconsin in the CCG or playing no one

Current system has to many holes,what ifs, opinions,roots in polls and decisions made off the field without any real criteria.

Even in Wiz's scenerio he has one clear flaw right off the bat.

Under the 6 game play off when you run the teams that would be in. Every question mark since the inception of the play offs is gone. And it improves the game as a whole
And in your scenario there is no reward for playing quality non conference games, there is no reward for playing well, no punishment for looking like shit, no punishment for getting blown the fuck out.
 

TheDayMan

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This goes back to the question marks over the current system.

If Ohio State plays Mercer instead of Iowa are they a 1 loss team?

More difficult opponent Wisconsin in the CCG or playing no one

Current system has to many holes,what ifs, opinions,roots in polls and decisions made off the field without any real criteria.

Even in Wiz's scenerio he has one clear flaw right off the bat.

Under the 6 game play off when you run the teams that would be in. Every question mark since the inception of the play offs is gone. And it improves the game as a whole

The fuck are you even talking about at this point?
 

7Samurai13

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The fuck are you even talking about at this point?
He’s crying because Ohio State lost to Oklahoma and supposedly that was what kept them out of the playoffs, not the losing by 5 scores to Iowa, while completely ignoring the fact that the biggest reason why ohio State made the playoffs in 2016 was because they beat Oklahoma.
 

TheDayMan

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He’s crying because Ohio State lost to Oklahoma and supposedly that was what kept them out of the playoffs, not the losing by 5 scores to Iowa, while completely ignoring the fact that the biggest reason why ohio State made the playoffs in 2016 was because they beat Oklahoma.
Ah. So he's now going with the "what if Ohio State didn't have to play that conference game so they could have won their conference because I think that should be a requirement" angle.

This discussion has really run its course. If you can't figure out how and why the playoff and committee has worked to this point, and how auto bids in no way fit with the landscape of college football, just shut the fuck up already and find an NFL team, they do it exactly how you want to see it done.
 

7Samurai13

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Ah. So he's now going with the "what if Ohio State didn't have to play that conference game so they could have won their conference because I think that should be a requirement" angle.

This discussion has really run its course. If you can't figure out how and why the playoff and committee has worked to this point, and how auto bids in no way fit with the landscape of college football, just shut the fuck up already and find an NFL team, they do it exactly how you want to see it done.
Don’t worry though, his system would make it impossible for a mid major to make the playoffs forcing them to just deal with it or form their own championship and forfeit the tens of millions of dollars the playoffspay them now.
 

Mistaken4193

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Hey Everyone.....I miss anything?
 
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