Is this an acceptable statistical season for a Mariner catcher?

[PolarVortex]

481 at bats (not an unreasonable total for a starting catcher)
56 runs
108 hits
27 doubles
0 triples
32 homeruns
83 RBI
51 walks
198 strikeouts
.225/.315/.480/.795

In case you haven't already guessed, this is Zunino's totals over the last two seasons. I've never fully endorsed K-nino mainly because I've pretty much given up on him. If he ever started the season luke warm or even room temperature, instead of ice cold, he might end up with stats like the above.

 

[NWinAZ]

481 at bats (not an unreasonable total for a starting catcher)
56 runs
108 hits
27 doubles
0 triples
32 homeruns
83 RBI
51 walks
198 strikeouts
.225/.315/.480/.795

In case you haven't already guessed, this is Zunino's totals over the last two seasons. I've never fully endorsed K-nino mainly because I've pretty much given up on him. If he ever started the season luke warm or even room temperature, instead of ice cold, he might end up with stats like the above.

Those stats over one year would get him in the Mariners Ring of Honor...before he even retires.

 

[wazzu31]

I mean, the Mariners have had some pretty bad offensive catchers. Dan Wilson was decent but Dan had the advantage of very low expectations and not needing to speak 12 different languages.

 

[SeattleCoug]

As much as the guy has driven me crazy at times he has put together a good enough year when you look at the numbers. Granted he is living off an unreal June but if he can duplicate this season I would take it everytime. Looking at other MLB catchers he is 8th in WAR and 7th in WRC+. The strikeout numbers are still way to high but not sure that's gonna change at this point. Also the only guys on the team with a higher OPS are Cruz and Alonso. In terms of things to worry about for next year catcher is actually pretty low on the list for me. I also think you possibly explore an extension for him and buy out some of those arbitration years. Just my 2 cents.

 

[PolarVortex]

I mean, the Mariners have had some pretty bad offensive catchers. Dan Wilson was decent but Dan had the advantage of very low expectations and not needing to speak 12 different languages.

Dan was also part of the best Mariner lineups of any catcher in Mariner history. For most of his career anyway. I still remember his 3-homer game at old Tiger Stadium in Detroit.

 

[PolarVortex]

Zunino since May 29th:
.268/.335/.580/.915

 

[seahawksfan234]

It's a position I'd still look to upgrade over the offseason. Zunino has improved the last three months or so, but I could easily see him regressing back to his 2015 form.

I would target catching during the offseason, but Zunino's recent improvement has made me feel a little bit more comfortable going into 2018 if he's the starter.

 

[unlvmariners]

Those numbers over 481 AB's are ok, not great. You can win with that guy as the catcher. The power is there, so are the K's. The strikeouts are the thing that really stick out to me, then again in Zunino's case you probably don't get the same homerun/power numbers without the K's.

If you can upgrade catcher in the offseason why not? But there are a few other things that should probably be addressed first. Available money is going to be the big question mark this off season. Also do we have confidence in Dipoto to make the right moves?

 

[wazzu31]

Dan was also part of the best Mariner lineups of any catcher in Mariner history. For most of his career anyway. I still remember his 3-homer game at old Tiger Stadium in Detroit.

Without question Dan was the best offensive catcher in franchise history I just don't hold him up on some pedestal like alot fans do because he didn't show up in any of the playoff series.

 

[NWinAZ]

I always have thought Wilson was the best ball-around catcher in M's history. Followed closely by Jason Varitek...

 

[Destroydacre]

Without question Dan was the best offensive catcher in franchise history I just don't hold him up on some pedestal like alot fans do because he didn't show up in any of the playoff series.

Dan's value was behind the plate, one of the best defensive catchers ever to play the game. The fact that he wasn't a black hole on offense was nice, but given the lineups he played in, he never had to be counted on to produce consistently. Zunino gets a little more focus put on him because of his potential (which I still think the M's are the biggest reason that he hasn't reached it) and because there are more deficiencies in the lineup that in the mid-90's to early 2000's M's teams.


As to the thread...If Zunino over the course of a season hit ~.225 and slugged ~.475 and played solid behind the plate I would be ok with that. It's not ideal, but you can do worse and indeed the M's have done worse. What he can't do is go back to hitting below the Mendoza line with little power.

 

[Destroydacre]

I always have thought Wilson was the best ball-around catcher in M's history. Followed closely by Jason Varitek...

And all 0 games he played as a Mariner. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

 

[wazzu31]

I always have thought Wilson was the best ball-around catcher in M's history. Followed closely by Jason Varitek...

I remember he gave me batting gloves when I was younger but I tossed them because I'd honestly never heard of him . I remember that trade going down and being mad Lowe was dealt but didn't know he was some stud. Needless to say I ended up keeping a ton of memorabilia Rainiers handed out.

 

[wazzu31]

Dan's value was behind the plate, one of the best defensive catchers ever to play the game. The fact that he wasn't a black hole on offense was nice, but given the lineups he played in, he never had to be counted on to produce consistently. Zunino gets a little more focus put on him because of his potential (which I still think the M's are the biggest reason that he hasn't reached it) and because there are more deficiencies in the lineup that in the mid-90's to early 2000's M's teams.


As to the thread...If Zunino over the course of a season hit ~.225 and slugged ~.475 and played solid behind the plate I would be ok with that. It's not ideal, but you can do worse and indeed the M's have done worse. What he can't do is go back to hitting below the Mendoza line with little power.

I know Wilson was a defensive guy first, which is why I can't hate Zunino too bad because I think Mike is better defensively he just didn't have the hype and when Dan sucked at the plate he had two and for a few years three of the most feared hitters. Zunino has struggled no question but I think not only was he rushed but way too much accountability for offensive production was thrust upon him. Both Pudge's are in a category by themselves, generally you either get a Dan Wilson or a Mike Piazza, rarely do you get both.

 

[NWinAZ]

I remember he gave me batting gloves when I was younger but I tossed them because I'd honestly never heard of him . I remember that trade going down and being mad Lowe was dealt but didn't know he was some stud. Needless to say I ended up keeping a ton of memorabilia Rainiers handed out.

I still have that and the Jose Cruz Jr trades burned into my memory. Couldn't believe either.

 

[NWinAZ]

And all 0 games he played as a Mariner. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

I almost went with Jeff Clement at #2...

 

[wazzu31]

I still have that and the Jose Cruz Jr trades burned into my memory. Couldn't believe either.

Cruz was different to me, he was with the Mariners when he got dealt so I barely saw him like how I use to go to every Rainiers game but know he was the "top young player". I remember everyone drooling over Lowe but really couldn't remember anyone talking about Varitek. To me, he was like the younger version of Pat Borders, just your blue collar guy who did the job without the fan fare, of course until he went on to stardom in Boston.

 

[NWinAZ]

Cruz was different to me, he was with the Mariners when he got dealt so I barely saw him like how I use to go to every Rainiers game but know he was the "top young player". I remember everyone drooling over Lowe but really couldn't remember anyone talking about Varitek. To me, he was like the younger version of Pat Borders, just your blue collar guy who did the job without the fan fare, of course until he went on to stardom in Boston.

Varitek was suppose to be a stud but he wasn't really talked about much here. The people that wrote and scouted minors loved him. Thought he was a floor general type player. Not sure what led to that deal at all. Two top prospects for a mediocre rental reliever.

 

[NWinAZ]

I almost went with Jeff Clement at #2...

I ran across this. Funny.

Jason Varitek, Derek Lowe Recall Famous Trade From Mariners To Red Sox by Ricky Doyle on Thu, May 29, 2014

The Boston Red Sox didn’t know what they were getting in 1997 when they acquired minor leaguers Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for reliever Heathcliff Slocumb. No, really. They didn’t know. “I remember we went back to the hotel (in Albuquerque) and Jason and I were in the same room, and (Red Sox general manager Dan Duquette) thought I was left-handed and Jason was kind of an overweight catcher,” Lowe recounted Wednesday before a pregame ceremony at Fenway Park honoring the 10th anniversary of the 2004 World Series-winning Red Sox. “But I didn’t really understand kind of what I was getting myself into and it really couldn’t have worked out any better.” While the Red Sox certainly were more knowledgeable about the prospects they were receiving than Lowe’s story suggests, the pitcher’s point holds true. No one could have foreseen either player’s eventual impact on the organization. The “left-handed” Lowe — he’s actually right-handed — won 70 games, recorded 85 saves, posted a 3.72 ERA and earned two All-Star selections over parts of eight seasons with the Sox. He even won all three series-clinching games during the Red Sox’s ’04 World Series run. The “fat catcher” — have fun telling that to Tek — hit 193 home runs, earned three All-Star selections, won a Gold Glove, secured a Silver Slugger award and followed in the footsteps of Hall of Famers Carl Yastrzemski and Jim Rice in becoming the third captain in franchise history during his 15 seasons with the Red Sox. It’s hard to imagine that both players took some time getting acclimated after arriving in Boston as a pair of unknown minor leaguers. “I remember I was 0-9 in 1998, and they gave me an opportunity to go to the bullpen, which I need to do to kind of try to learn how to pitch at this level,” said Lowe, who made his Red Sox debut on Sept. 1, 1997. “I give them a lot of credit for staying with me, and not burying you and sending you down to Triple-A.” Lowe made eight relief appearances with the Red Sox in 1997, posting a 3.38 ERA over 16 innings. He made 68 appearances — including 10 starts — the following season and posted a 3-9 record and 4.02 ERA. It wasn’t until 1999 that the lanky righty really started to make strides. Varitek appeared in one game in 1997 before splitting time with incumbent catcher Scott Hatteberg in 1998. He, too, broke out in 1999, hitting .269 with 20 homers and 76 RBIs in 144 big league contests. “I was scared to death,” Varitek said of getting traded to Boston in 1997. “Things had just started to get better for me over there (in the Seattle organization) as a player, I started to see some light at the end of the tunnel defensively, started to settle in a little bit offensively having a good year and then you’re traded. So once you get your feet on the ground, you’re somewhere else.” Varitek’s transition to Boston was made easier by his relationship with former Red Sox shortstop Nomar Garciaparra, whom the catcher played with at Georgia Tech. Lowe, on the other hand, benefited from being thrown into the fire. “I think the beauty of being here is you get put in a lot of crazy situations — playoff games, sellout crowds — and I think it was probably two years after that,” Lowe said of when he finally felt comfortable with his new organization. Both players eventually etched out permanent places in Red Sox history by playing major roles in the club breaking an 86-year-old curse. You could say that’s a bit better than advertised.

Read more at: Jason Varitek, Derek Lowe Recall Famous Trade From Mariners To Red Sox

 

[NWinAZ]

Cruz was different to me, he was with the Mariners when he got dealt so I barely saw him like how I use to go to every Rainiers game but know he was the "top young player". I remember everyone drooling over Lowe but really couldn't remember anyone talking about Varitek. To me, he was like the younger version of Pat Borders, just your blue collar guy who did the job without the fan fare, of course until he went on to stardom in Boston.

1996 Top 100 MLB Prospects:

#23 Jose Cruz Jr
#51 Jason Varitek
#89 Desi Relaford

I love prospect lists.