WVU, the ONLY Big12 team

[WVUDAD]

DAD,

I want to engage you in a little Q&A style format. I know several posters have provided you with multiple responses/posts reviewing the history associated with Coach Stewart's firing. You keep bringing up the same arguments/points you've brought up for the past 4 years. You ain't so old that you keep forgetting the facts… cause you remember your set of facts…. so… let's get this started.

You state that Luck fired a coach for losing close games in 2010. While I believe the decision was based on more than just the outcome of those three games… let me ask you these questions…

1. Did Bill Stewart earn a berth in a BCS bowl during his tenure?
2. Did Bill Stewart win an outright championship in the Big East?
3. Wasn't navigating the Big East conference and OOC portion of the schedule the easiest path to the MNC?

1)He ended with the same record as Fraud and Holgorsen did, 5-2 winning a tie for the BE crown what other teams did decided who went to the BSC bowl
2) No, and neither did Holgorsen, and Fraud only did once, 2005
3) No, you may argue that the BE was not as strong, but the OOC record says otherwise, and the OOC schedule was much stronger then. I would contend that at that time the B11 or ACC was easier.

 

[bbwvfan]

1)He ended with the same record as Fraud and Holgorsen did, 5-2 winning a tie for the BE crown what other teams did decided who went to the BSC bowl
2) No, and neither did Holgorsen, and Fraud only did once, 2005
3) No, you may argue that the BE was not as strong, but the OOC record says otherwise, and the OOC schedule was much stronger then. I would contend that at that time the B11 or ACC was easier.

1. So, the answer to the first question is NO... Stewart did not win a berth to a BCS bowl.
2. The answer was NO... Stewart did not win an outright championship.
3. The answer was YES. The BE was only a 7 team conference. Of the 5 OOC games, WVU played 2 AQ teams, 2 non-AQ teams and an FCS team.

During Stewart's 3 years, he faced but 2 OOC opponents that ended year-end ranked... 2010... Maryland and LSU.

An undefeated BE team was poised to be in the hunt for one of the top BCS rankings despite playing a weaker SOS. Simply look to the year Cincy finished #3 despite starting the season unranked.

 

[bbwvfan]

Now, Luck replaces Pastilong and takes inventory of all of his athletic teams. He knows the BE is weakened, but he finds his football program struggling to win. And, this inventory reveals a roster short of the maximum scholarship players, so he makes a decision to fire the coach for under performing.

Stewart was not the only HC to be fired...just the coach with the highest profile.

 

[bbwvfan]

The expectation for the football program was to win BE championships. To play in BCS bowls. To position the team to play for the BCS NCG.

Stewart failed to meet those expectations, and Luck likely reasoned Stewart would not meet those expectations in the future.

So, he made a hard decision...

 

[MarkOU]

The expectation for the football program was to win BE championships. To play in BCS bowls. To position the team to play for the BCS NCG.

Stewart failed to meet those expectations, and Luck likely reasoned Stewart would not meet those expectations in the future.

So, he made a hard decision...

As it should be at all programs that want to succeed. Some just want to make a bowl game, shame but at least people can be realistic.

Holgerson has regressed. He did great with Stewart's talent, and then a little worse, and then just terrible. This is year four for him and its his kids leading the team. If he doesn't get at least 10 wins, I say he should be shit canned. Just scary regression for a head coach. 10-3, 7-6, 4-8...

 

[bbwvfan]

As it should be at all programs that want to succeed. Some just want to make a bowl game, shame but at least people can be realistic.

Holgerson has regressed. He did great with Stewart's talent, and then a little worse, and then just terrible. This is year four for him and its his kids leading the team. If he doesn't get at least 10 wins, I say he should be shit canned. Just scary regression for a head coach. 10-3, 7-6, 4-8...

It is quite unrealistic for anyone to believe WVU should get to 10 wins this season.

You are correct, Dana did great with Stewart's talent. He won the BE, and set Orange Bowl and BCS bowl records when destroying Clemson.

Dana's record in the Big 12 has been very disappointing, and if he doesn't win more than 5 games this year, I believe he will be canned.

But, how many Big 12 teams win a majority of conference games with FR and RS FR starting in the secondary at multiple positions?

 

[DCWV4life]

If we just went 10-3 because of Stews "talent" then whay happened during 7-6, why did we not win the conference? Oh wait that was the season we had to start Frosh on defense.....I guess the well of Stews talent was very shallow......I like how Stew gets some sort of credit for 10-3 but has no responsibility for 7-6 and 4-8...No one would have even known about Stews "talent" if it were not for DH and his offense.

 

[bbwvfan]

If we just went 10-3 because of Stews "talent" then whay happened during 7-6, why did we not win the conference? Oh wait that was the season we had to start Frosh on defense.....I guess the well of Stews talent was very shallow......I like how Stew gets some sort of credit for 10-3 but has no responsibility for 7-6 and 4-8...No one would have even known about Stews "talent" if it were not for DH and his offense.

I don't mind when a poster from outside of WVU looks ignorant… they don't follow WVU as closely as we do. But, if they want to hang out with us and get learned… I'm game…

 

[WVUDAD]

The expectation for the football program was to win BE championships. To play in BCS bowls. To position the team to play for the BCS NCG.

Stewart failed to meet those expectations, and Luck likely reasoned Stewart would not meet those expectations in the future.

So, he made a hard decision...

AND after this year he will be faced with an easier decision.

 

[WVUDAD]

If we just went 10-3 because of Stews "talent" then whay happened during 7-6, why did we not win the conference? Oh wait that was the season we had to start Frosh on defense.....I guess the well of Stews talent was very shallow......I like how Stew gets some sort of credit for 10-3 but has no responsibility for 7-6 and 4-8...No one would have even known about Stews "talent" if it were not for DH and his offense.

DC, we all know that some sort of chemistry issue happened during the 2012 season, the WVU offense was on fire until the win at Texas, then started quitting the team, and for whatever reason the offense fell way off, only scoring 7 and 14 in the next two games in lopsided losses. BS on that last statement, did you not see the last few games of the 2010 season? As to getting credit, ask Larry Coker about that, when a new guy comes in and wins the first year, then gets worse each year afterward, he is clearly the benefactor of the previous guys kids and coaching, and as the kids who remain get more ineffective coaching from that new staff the thought is more true.

 

[Slaton10]

AND after this year he will be faced with an easier decision.

 

[DCWV4life]

Yeah that's what all of as fans of WVU should hope is that DH fails this season...some people

 

[WVUDAD]

DC, no one is wanting the WVU football team to do bad, just being realistic, which some people lack the ability to do. I see very little good in Holgorsen's coaching, he was outcoached in almost every game last year, and there are some on here who are so in love with the guy they will make any excuse in the world as to why he is failing. Just a few years ago WVU could compete with anyone, now we barely beat W&M, and get trounced by Kansas, hardly an endorsement for the future. Our record has gotten worse each year he has been our coach, and the way last season ended I do not see where some are getting their optimism.

 

[GoldRusher]

DC, we all know that some sort of chemistry issue happened during the 2012 season, the WVU offense was on fire until the win at Texas, then started quitting the team, and for whatever reason the offense fell way off, only scoring 7 and 14 in the next two games in lopsided losses. BS on that last statement, did you not see the last few games of the 2010 season? As to getting credit, ask Larry Coker about that, when a new guy comes in and wins the first year, then gets worse each year afterward, he is clearly the benefactor of the previous guys kids and coaching, and as the kids who remain get more ineffective coaching from that new staff the thought is more true.

6 games into their first year in a MUCH better/deeper conference with a limited number of scholarship players due to failures of the previous staff's ability to recruit = "quitting, chemistry issues, and turmoil" it was attrition, plain n simple. Had this coach and staff been 2-3 year vets in Morgantown with a full roster of scholarship players then put me in your camp, put his head on a platter.


The defense was terrible all year that year but once the offense started slipping (again that's about the game 6 mark and starters feeling the pain and needing some backup...!! Ugly..

BTW lets also ask Coker about how Butch Davis got all those kids to the U before he got there.

 

[bbwvfan]

6 games into their first year in a MUCH better/deeper conference with a limited number of scholarship players due to failures of the previous staff's ability to recruit = "quitting, chemistry issues, and turmoil" it was attrition, plain n simple. Had this coach and staff been 2-3 year vets in Morgantown with a full roster of scholarship players then put me in your camp, put his head on a platter.


The defense was terrible all year that year but once the offense started slipping (again that's about the game 6 mark and starters feeling the pain and needing some backup...!! Ugly..

BTW lets also ask Coker about how Butch Davis got all those kids to the U before he got there.

Which brings up another point I would like DAD to address for all of us here.

DC has been kind enough in the past to furnish Stewart's recruiting classes. I would like for DAD to go back to those classes and show us how many of them actually made it to their SR year of college.

I would like for him to highlight the QB's, RB's and defensive personnel recruited by Stewart's staff.

And, I would like for him to provide a list of recruits that never made it to their 2nd semester of college at WVU under his tenure.

 

[WVUDAD]

BB, do the same for any recruiting class in any sport, just as those two recruiting classes under Stewart were very highly rated, yet failed to produce lasting results, Holgorsens classes are doing the same. Huggins has the same issues, for whatever reason, kids are bailing on teams all over the NCAA. Throw in the losses that happen with a coaching change and there will be kids who were no longer there. My beef with Holgorsen is nothing is getting better. The defense showed slight improvement last season, but the offense fell off. The team looked to lack and fire and seemed to be weak, how many times was WVU holding a halftime lead and lost? That was Frauds greatest coaching skill, he had the team in great shape.

 

[WVUDAD]

Which brings up another point I would like DAD to address for all of us here.

DC has been kind enough in the past to furnish Stewart's recruiting classes. I would like for DAD to go back to those classes and show us how many of them actually made it to their SR year of college.

I would like for him to highlight the QB's, RB's and defensive personnel recruited by Stewart's staff.

And, I would like for him to provide a list of recruits that never made it to their 2nd semester of college at WVU under his tenure.

Why do you still harp on Stewarts recruits, going into year four, isnt it about time to ask what QBs, RBs etc Holgorsen has brought in? Holgorsen was advertised to be the greatest maker of QB and WR out there, yet going into year FOUR we have no QB that can run his offense.

 

[bbwvfan]

BB, do the same for any recruiting class in any sport, just as those two recruiting classes under Stewart were very highly rated, yet failed to produce lasting results, Holgorsens classes are doing the same. Huggins has the same issues, for whatever reason, kids are bailing on teams all over the NCAA. Throw in the losses that happen with a coaching change and there will be kids who were no longer there. My beef with Holgorsen is nothing is getting better. The defense showed slight improvement last season, but the offense fell off. The team looked to lack and fire and seemed to be weak, how many times was WVU holding a halftime lead and lost? That was Frauds greatest coaching skill, he had the team in great shape.

Dana's classes are doing the same?

Would you show us how similar they are? Provide a list an analysis of each class.

 

[DCWV4life]

Well lets be honest if you want to start comparing Coker to DH....Cokers second year was truly his second year...DH's second year was truly his first since your man crush could not man up and accept the change...he did not get here until late and was not even supposed to be the head coach during 10-3. So because some people could not accept the situation, here is a first time head coach who was new to the program trying to learn install a new offense and still got the team to perform 1 game better than the year before. That shows he has coaching talent and the ability to lead a program.

You want to point to two games and say the offense fell off???? Hell when Stews teams were scoring 14 and below I did not hear you screaming about offense? We have had this talk before, offense still avg'd over 40 last 6 games of the year...I noticed you did not address the fact we were starting freshman all over the place on defense which directly led to the TCU L that year. I thought Stew was a defensive guy, you have stated this time and time again....where the heck was all the defensive talent? Were they playing somewhere else? Are they even in football anymore? Where ol where are all the players? Besides 3 players he didn't leave sh$t...and we would still be in the same situation we are now with (insert name of choice) here.

 

[DCWV4life]

Dana's classes are doing the same?

Would you show us how similar they are? Provide a list an analysis of each class.

He can go copy my thread from a while back...I believe the number was 52% of players from two classes never stepped foot on the field..those classes were rated high on signing day and that is about it....at least Huggins gets one year out of some of these guys.

12 players graduated last year, 12 are going to graduate this year....numbers would not even be this high without the Band-Aids DH has thrown on it.