Wrestling Mount Rushmore?

[calsnowskier]

Nah, USA is owned by NBC, while ABC owns ESPN

Beat me to it.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Nah, USA is owned by NBC, while ABC owns ESPN

I did say not to quote me on that. LoL.

I lost my scorecard and can't keep straight who owns which networks anymore with out it.

 

[The Q]

One thing I'm gonna add to my case for Bret Hart, when we're talking about match quality and epic matches.

He didn't need to do his finisher to create a great match or great match ending.

Even when he lost classic matches, they were great endings (Owen Hart WM 10, Bulldog at 92 Summer Slam), and some of his wins were great (95 Survivor Series...amazing).

 

[Yo Tee]

One thing I'm gonna add to my case for Bret Hart, when we're talking about match quality and epic matches.

He didn't need to do his finisher to create a great match or great match ending.

Even when he lost classic matches, they were great endings (Owen Hart WM 10, Bulldog at 92 Summer Slam), and some of his wins were great (95 Survivor Series...amazing).

Bret Hart/Owen Hart at WM 10 is one of my favorite matches of all time. Love that match. Bret was a childhood favorite of mine and will always be a favorite. Bret and Warrior were probably my two favorite wrestlers from the 90s. Unfortunately, the charisma he lacked hurt him in terms of being immortalized. Hart had better matches than Hogan in my opinion, but Hogan had the charisma so he was always the favorite.

 

[The Q]

Bret Hart/Owen Hart at WM 10 is one of my favorite matches of all time. Love that match. Bret was a childhood favorite of mine and will always be a favorite. Bret and Warrior were probably my two favorite wrestlers from the 90s. Unfortunately, the charisma he lacked hurt him in terms of being immortalized. Hart had better matches than Hogan in my opinion, but Hogan had the charisma so he was always the favorite.

True, but it's really unfair to compare anyone to Hogan on charisma.

The guy made the heel turn into still being super popular.

 

[The Q]

Bret Hart/Owen Hart at WM 10 is one of my favorite matches of all time. Love that match. Bret was a childhood favorite of mine and will always be a favorite. Bret and Warrior were probably my two favorite wrestlers from the 90s. Unfortunately, the charisma he lacked hurt him in terms of being immortalized. Hart had better matches than Hogan in my opinion, but Hogan had the charisma so he was always the favorite.

The Harts put on two clinics that year. At WM and then again at Summer slam with one of the best cage matches youll ever see.

 

[calsnowskier]

True, but it's really unfair to compare anyone to Hogan on charisma.

The guy made the heel turn into still being super popular.

Hogan’s heel turn was an absolute stroke of genius. The whole squeaky clean thing that Hogan had lived on for almost 20 years had become stale, but no one could picture the pillar of virtue as anything but the Real American. But smarks still knew who he really was behind the scenes. Playing on his smark rep, and going with the selfish, conniving, full of himself gimmick just made sense. And then, to team him up with the Kliq just pushed it over the top, and placed WCW firmly on the top of the mountain.

No other heel (or face) turn in the history of the industry had the same impact. Nor will one in the future have that level of impact. The investment into Hogan’s face status will never be matched again.

 

[The Q]

Hogan’s heel turn was an absolute stroke of genius. The whole squeaky clean thing that Hogan had lived on for almost 20 years had become stale, but no one could picture the pillar of virtue as anything but the Real American. But smarks still knew who he really was behind the scenes. Playing on his smark rep, and going with the selfish, conniving, full of himself gimmick just made sense. And then, to team him up with the Kliq just pushed it over the top, and placed WCW firmly on the top of the mountain.

No other heel (or face) turn in the history of the industry had the same impact. Nor will one in the future have that level of impact. The investment into Hogan’s face status will never be matched again.

Yeah, i'd argue the next closest investment was Sting as the white night for WCW.

Also, i heard rumors that if Hogan wouldn't have gone through with it, it woudl've been Sting as the 3rd man, which just wouldn't have worked. Not the same way. Loved it when it was all former WWF guys at first. First big mistake was the Giant. He didn't belong. And then they just got way too big.

The fighting inside the NWO that lead to Wolfpack could've worked, but it lost it's grit.

 

[The Q]

Bret Hart/Owen Hart at WM 10 is one of my favorite matches of all time. Love that match. Bret was a childhood favorite of mine and will always be a favorite. Bret and Warrior were probably my two favorite wrestlers from the 90s. Unfortunately, the charisma he lacked hurt him in terms of being immortalized. Hart had better matches than Hogan in my opinion, but Hogan had the charisma so he was always the favorite.

I mean charisma is one part. Hart was still a huge face. And was the face of the franchise after hogan left.

But in terms of match quality and in-ring talent, no one else can match hart there.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah, i'd argue the next closest investment was Sting as the white night for WCW.

Also, i heard rumors that if Hogan wouldn't have gone through with it, it woudl've been Sting as the 3rd man, which just wouldn't have worked. Not the same way. Loved it when it was all former WWF guys at first. First big mistake was the Giant. He didn't belong. And then they just got way too big.

The fighting inside the NWO that lead to Wolfpack could've worked, but it lost it's grit.

There was a new “defection” every week on Nitro. It lost its edge after a while. Unless they intended on turning Thunder into NWO Thunder, or something like that, going the extend they did was pointless. They had a great concept and killed it for short-term gains.

 

[Battlelyon]

Hogan made wrestling main stream popular, its asinine to not include him. He built wrestling up to its most popular not once but twice in the 80s when wrestling was pop culture. Than again in the 90s, when he made the most popular faction in wrestling history, by turning heel. Flair is also a no brainer. The Rock will be more famous for his movies than his wrestling career. The other two are arguable.

 

[calsnowskier]

Hogan made wrestling main stream popular, its asinine to not include him. He built wrestling up to its most popular not once but twice in the 80s when wrestling was pop culture. Than again in the 90s, when he made the most popular faction in wrestling history, by turning heel. Flair is also a no brainer. The Rock will be more famous for his movies than his wrestling career. The other two are arguable.

I think Austin is the clear cut #3. He proved that wrestling could pass the baton to a non-Hogan or non-Flair. He opened the door to a Cena.

 

[Battlelyon]

Yeah, i'd argue the next closest investment was Sting as the white night for WCW.

Also, i heard rumors that if Hogan wouldn't have gone through with it, it woudl've been Sting as the 3rd man, which just wouldn't have worked. Not the same way. Loved it when it was all former WWF guys at first. First big mistake was the Giant. He didn't belong. And then they just got way too big.

The fighting inside the NWO that lead to Wolfpack could've worked, but it lost it's grit.

Sting, that would of been terrible. The guy couldn't work the mic. I don't know how he had fans.

 

[The Q]

There was a new “defection” every week on Nitro. It lost its edge after a while. Unless they intended on turning Thunder into NWO Thunder, or something like that, going the extend they did was pointless. They had a great concept and killed it for short-term gains.

Just watched a documentary about the now. That was exactly the plan. But the nwo only events didn’t work as well.

 

[The Q]

Sting, that would of been terrible. The guy couldn't work the mic. I don't know how he had fans.

Yeah....we can’t be friends lol.

But I agree that the lack of a good mic man would’ve been a problem.

Plus who becomes wcw’s hero? Who goes away for a year? It just wouldn’t have worked.

 

[The Q]

I think Austin is the clear cut #3. He proved that wrestling could pass the baton to a non-Hogan or non-Flair. He opened the door to a Cena.

You know I’m gonna argue hart had that on lock down from 94-97 When Vince screwed him.

 

[DrewScott]

Hogan, Flair, Macho, Piper

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah....we can’t be friends lol.

But I agree that the lack of a good mic man would’ve been a problem.

Plus who becomes wcw’s hero? Who goes away for a year? It just wouldn’t have worked.

Sting was the only WCW guy around at the time. Sure, Giant had spent his entire career in ?WCW, but he was stilll relatively young and wasn’t synonymous with NWA/WCW the way Sting was (or Flair had been). If Sting had taken the Hollywood monicker, they would have had to change the “fight back” side of the angle.

 

[calsnowskier]

You know I’m gonna argue hart had that on lock down from 94-97 When Vince screwed him.

Was Hart mainstream, though? Sure, smarks loved him, but he had ZERO mic skills and his character was bland af. He was Benoit before Benoit was Benoit.

 

[The Q]

Sting was the only WCW guy around at the time. Sure, Giant had spent his entire career in ?WCW, but he was stilll relatively young and wasn’t synonymous with NWA/WCW the way Sting was (or Flair had been). If Sting had taken the Hollywood monicker, they would have had to change the “fight back” side of the angle.

The only plus side would've been that WCW's best in-ring guy wouldnt' have skipped a year of wrestling after an epic War Games.

Again, I really loved the all former WWF guy angle. So eventually adding Macho and and Dibiase and all those guys made sense.

it was all the random guys like Buff Bagwell, Scott Norton, STevie Ray etc. that really just kinda screwed it up

also, looking back, they really should've given DDP a bit more of a push early on. Too much 4 Horsemen.

Frankly, Flair is probably the only other guy who could've pulled off the Hogan turn. Maybe Savage, but even then I question it.