Wrestling Mount Rushmore?

[SJ76]

Flair
Hogan
Macho man
Rude

 

[calsnowskier]

Flair
Hogan
Macho man
Rude

Do you believe that Rude was ever big enough to anchor a fed?

Hogan? Yup.

Flair? Yup.

Andre? Yup.

Cena? Yup.

Austin? Yup.

Rock? Yup.

Savage? Meh.

Rude? No way.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

Do you believe that Rude was ever big enough to anchor a fed?

Hogan? Yup.

Flair? Yup.

Andre? Yup.

Cena? Yup.

Austin? Yup.

Rock? Yup.

Savage? Meh.

Rude? No way.

I'd probably say yes to Savage. No matter what he did, he was never going to be given the chance to be the main star as long as Hogan was around. But I think that if Hogan had disappeared after say Wrestlemania IV that business still would've been fine with Savage on top. Heck, I would've even had him go over Hogan at Wrestlemania V to shock the world.

 

[Yo Tee]

As of right now, I'd go with:

Hogan
Flair
Austin
Rock

Arguments can be made for:

Bret Hart
John Cena
Andre
Taker
Triple H

I personally would like to think that Warrior has a spot on here but unfortunately, I feel he is in the same boat with Rude and Savage. Polarizing figures that didn't live up to their potential, in my opinion.

 

[calsnowskier]

I'd probably say yes to Savage. No matter what he did, he was never going to be given the chance to be the main star as long as Hogan was around. But I think that if Hogan had disappeared after say Wrestlemania IV that business still would've been fine with Savage on top. Heck, I would've even had him go over Hogan at Wrestlemania V to shock the world.

Possibly. He was a bit cartoonish, but he was also a big star. The Slim Jim commercials did not hurt...

As Terry mentioned, Warrior may have been able to co-anchor with Savage in that time frame. Maybe Hart and Michaels would have been given bigger, earlier pushes.

 

[The Q]

Did Austin have a long enough peak when you compare it to the long elite runs of guys like Hart or Taker or even Cena?

He's like the Koufax of this debate.

 

[calsnowskier]

Did Austin have a long enough peak when you compare it to the long elite runs of guys like Hart or Taker or even Cena?

He's like the Koufax of this debate.

Good point, but AT his peak, he was the equivalent of Hogan or Flair at their peaks. And he proved that a non-Hogan, non-Flair could carry the industry, which opened the door to a Rock or a HHH or a Cena.

 

[The Q]

Good point, but AT his peak, he was the equivalent of Hogan or Flair at their peaks. And he proved that a non-Hogan, non-Flair could carry the industry, which opened the door to a Rock or a HHH or a Cena.

I would say we saw that in both places.

Bret Hart in WWF (frankly he carried Austin through their feud), and then Sting in WCW.

fuck sting was doing it without even wrestling. He was THE storyline in WCW without even getting in the ring for over a year.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would say we saw that in both places.

Bret Hart in WWF (frankly he carried Austin through their feud), and then Sting in WCW.

fuck sting was doing it without even wrestling. He was THE storyline in WCW without even getting in the ring for over a year.

Or saying a word...

 

[calsnowskier]

I would say we saw that in both places.

Bret Hart in WWF (frankly he carried Austin through their feud), and then Sting in WCW.

fuck sting was doing it without even wrestling. He was THE storyline in WCW without even getting in the ring for over a year.

True about Hart, but that is only looking at one part of the package that a superstar needs to bring. Had a decent character, but it was not to the level of Austin or Hogan or Flair. Pro wrestling is not a professional sport. It is entertainment. In-ring ability is super important, but it is not the deciding factor in who is a superstar or not.

Just look at Hogan to prove that.

 

[The Q]

True about Hart, but that is only looking at one part of the package that a superstar needs to bring. Had a decent character, but it was not to the level of Austin or Hogan or Flair. Pro wrestling is not a professional sport. It is entertainment. In-ring ability is super important, but it is not the deciding factor in who is a superstar or not.

Just look at Hogan to prove that.

Yeah i have a friend who is a hardcore wrestling fan. We talk about this.

there's like originality, in ring talent, charisma, etc.

Hogan is so bad in ring, but yeah it really didn't matter. He's clearly #1 unless you think that he's so bad in ring that it would drop him enough to fall below one.

The guy who i'll be disappointed if he's not on this eventually is Lesnar.

Guy is like old school Kane and Kurt Angle rolled into one.

Austin had some catchy lines, I never got the hubub. I never liked his character. He was like the stereotypical annoying american tourist (best way I describe his persona).

Hart had great feuds with HBK and Austin (again, he really carried that) and even went for the whole anti-america storyline.

He has some all-time classic matches, including some of the best IC title matches of all time (Mr. Perfect and British Bulldog in early 90s) and then as the leader of the post Hogan era with the Own Hart match at WM 10, and one of the most underrated matches of all time IMO the 95 Survivor Series against Diesel. Those 2 wrestled it to a T to their personalities. Great ending. Good heel turn for Diesel.

Plus I'd argue that Austin's rise is thanks to the NWO. Heels becoming fan favorites was weird until the NWO storyline.

But Hogan is a lock.

I think Undertaker has a strong argument when you consider the intense longevity.

I would have Hart there.

Flair is a great call, he's also pretty limited but he and Hogan basically owned the 80s. But that's also the reason I'm hesitating going with him.

I'm partial towards the Rock as well. But I get why he may not be in either.

 

[The Q]

Or saying a word...

that was really cool.

that NWO storyline.....you will never see anything that good again.

And the foresight for the Sting character was incredible. Props to WCW for that.

It's a shame the 97 Starcade didn't deliver for Hogan or Sting. Although it was better than I thought when I watched it a 2nd time.

But the marketing for that, the year + to set it up....the refusing to fight any other NWO member and using the sign to call Dillon to give him Hogan.....the War Games with the 2 Stings....it was incredible.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yes, Austin was part of the "New Wrestling" that was iconized by NWO and DX, but he was his own thing as well. NWO and DX were comic-books and kinda bigger-than-life. Austin was the every-man who was sticking it to the man.

Similar, but very different.

 

[The Q]

Yes, Austin was part of the "New Wrestling" that was iconized by NWO and DX, but he was his own thing as well. NWO and DX were comic-books and kinda bigger-than-life. Austin was the every-man who was sticking it to the man.

Similar, but very different.

I saw him as the ignorant, beer guzzling, loud mouth.

But I was also 12.

 

[calsnowskier]

I saw him as the ignorant, beer guzzling, loud mouth.

But I was also 12.

He was acting out the way we all wanted to act out against our own boss. He drank what he wanted, when he wanted. He kicked the shit out of his boss and his coworkers who pissed him off. He swore at his boss and told him go fuck himself.

He was every blue-collars fantasy.

 

[fknhippie]

Miss Elizabeth.

 

[The Q]

He was acting out the way we all wanted to act out against our own boss. He drank what he wanted, when he wanted. He kicked the shit out of his boss and his coworkers who pissed him off. He swore at his boss and told him go fuck himself.

He was every blue-collars fantasy.

Yeah, see being a clean-cut, all american 12 year old....didn't get the point of the character.

But when you put it like that....it makes way more sense.

 

[futballiscool]

If we set the limits as WrestleMania era American wrestling it's Hogan, Flair, Austin, The Rock. I don't even think it's debatable. 3 of them transcended wrestling and Flair defined it in the modern era.
I'd put Cena, Savage, Undertaker, HHH and a handful of others in the next tier.

 

[The Q]

True about Hart, but that is only looking at one part of the package that a superstar needs to bring. Had a decent character, but it was not to the level of Austin or Hogan or Flair. Pro wrestling is not a professional sport. It is entertainment. In-ring ability is super important, but it is not the deciding factor in who is a superstar or not.

Just look at Hogan to prove that.

I have to say, I just saw Hart/Diesel 94 KOTR...damn what a great match, but man what a terrible ending. But Hart/Diesel had some amazing matches before the Attitude era.

 

[The Q]

Hogan and Austin both can only dream of having a cage match as good as Bret v. Owen at Summer Slam 94.

Hell that might be the best specialty match Brett has been in throughout his career, even better than the WM13 match with Stone Cold.